All temporary taxcuts should be allowed to expire. (kentuck gets in trouble)

[Carl]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100245232

kentuck (60,235 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

 
All temporary taxcuts should be allowed to expire.
 If we are in the worst economy since the Great Depression, it is about time for everyone to tighten their belts. It is cowardice to say that no one making less than $250K a year should not have to pay more in taxes. It is political bullshit.

Businesses are sitting on over $2 trillion dollars in assets and the only way their workers can get an extra dollar in their paychecks is to cut their Social Security contributions. Give me a ****ing break!

How about a little backbone? How about a little courage?

The payroll taxcuts should be allowed to expire immediately. They should never have taken place in the first place. It was a sorrowful display in lack of judgement.

The Democratic Party, which has fought for programs to help the people of this country with their blood and tears, are now ready to give up all these gains for a measly ass tax cut because the people need it in these hard times.

For goodness sakes people, open your eyes! Stand up and fight. If we followed the advice of the present leaders of this Party, there would never have been a strike against unfair labor practices. There would never have been a union. These folks walked the picket lines not knowing where their next meal was going to come from. Now, we act like we cannot live if we don't get that 2-3% FICA tax cut in our paycheck.

And when we sacrifice that, we make damn sure that the Bush taxcuts expire and that the capital gains taxes go back up and that the estate taxes not be passed on to the weak, whiny offspring of dying billionaires.

Grow a pair!

lonestarnot (65,949 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
1. I'd gladly pay a grand and give up lunch for a ****ing year to watch Richie Rich have to pay his

fair share.

Of course you expect 50 grand in benefits for it.

rsmith6621 (5,996 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
5. Hey kentuck



Give your address and I will send you my bills and you can pay them cause if this doesn't get extended mu unemployment runs out in March. Right now I could care less about oil spills in the Kansas.

bigtree (40,573 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
8. speak for your own income


Last edited Mon Dec 19, 2011, 11:29 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
Don't represent giving up money folks need as some act of courage. Have more compassion than to bait folks who need the money.

I thought paying taxes was patriotic?

kentuck (60,235 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
10. Better than asking people to surrender what they have paid for all their lives?


Last edited Mon Dec 19, 2011, 11:35 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
So you can get a few extra dollars in your pocket, as if you could not live without it. Most folks don't even know they got it, in the first place. Sometimes you have to fight for it. You can't expect it to be given to you by the Republicans and you can't expect others to sacrifice so nobody has to suffer any hardship at all. We must all maintain a certain level of comfort which we have become accustomed to. Are we in the worst economy since the Great Depression or what??

bigtree (40,573 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
13. nothing of the sort is occurring. You're just using fear to make your point


Last edited Mon Dec 19, 2011, 11:43 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
Nothing is happening to the Social Security trust fund. The money is replaced from general revenue; thus, the tax cut is paid out of general revenue. The unemployment benefits are actually well-known as an effective stimulus, actually adding to the economic growth we need. Stop being an actuary and start thinking about what folks need right now.

bigtree is a big idiot.

kentuck (60,235 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
17. There is nothing in the general fund.

It is running a deficit, I'm sure you know? The SS fund is not.

I would agree that unemployment benefits are an effective stimulus but we should not be bribed to sacrifice other programs or to cut other benefits to provide for unemployment. We should fight the Republicans in the streets for unemployment benefits for the folks that need it. We shouldn't surrender as we have been doing, as we did with the extension of the Bush taxcuts, as with the debt ceiling, etc...

bigtree (40,573 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
21. that should apply to everything else then, not just when the middle class gets a break

you want to make an argument about priorities in the general budget? It's ridiculous to focus on this one benefit the middle class is going to take advantage of and just let the rest go. So you'd begin your fight against the deficit by denying this cut? Inspiring. It's always the middle class that takes the first and largest hit in the budget. Nice to know you feel that's an acceptable order.

kentuck (60,235 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
22. Just what is politically possible at the moment.

Once you show enough courage to fight the Republicans and win a majority, then we can do more. We are talking about what is politically feasible at this time.

bigtree (40,573 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
43. denying the middle class a tax break before changing the other priorities isn't 'courage'

It's what republicans have wanted all along. Surrender the little bit that goes to folks who need the money and not replacing it with anything. Just this notion that it's somehow contributing to good government. What a crock.

gimme gimme gimme

bigtree (40,573 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
52. yeah, that's right, we're not just regular folks out here, working our asses off

trying to make a living; trying to make the little we have stretch for ourselves and the ones around us.

No, to you, we're just some pawns in your little political playgame. No way can we think independently of the little political boxes of your own indifferent bias you try and shove us in.

Your talk of 'courage' in this thread is disgusting. Talk about republican! You couldn't be anymore full of shit.

kentuck (60,235 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
54. Hit a nerve, huh?

Caught in your Republican crapola. What would you have done if the small FICA tax cut had not happened? You would probably have starved to ****ing death.

bigtree (40,573 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
57. That's about as direct a personal assault as you can make Kentuck

 . . . from your anonymous perch who the **** knows where.

You're acting like a heartless pig, trying to shame poor folks into surrendering the little they have for the sake of some fictional deficit reduction that you dreamed up.
It would be one thing if ending the tax break was attached to something even remotely related to deficit reduction, but that is a process of reducing SPENDING, not taxing the hell out of everyone just to fund the government's politically-driven wars abroad.

Where's your backbone? Picking on poor people and trying to punk them into rejecting the few extra dollars they have to spend to satisfy your political playgame is sickening. The fact that you accuse ME of republicanism shows just how dense you really are, you miserable wretc

bigtree (40,573 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
59. You can't keep from taunting people, can you?

You have to be a special kind of cold to be so callous about the income needs of people out here as you have with this issue. You need more than a break, you need an epiphany.

Interesting how defending a Democratic tax break from a Democratic President is considered 'republican' to you. You're so screwed up with animosity toward the Democratic party that you can't even defend our constituency against republican assault on their interests. You're content instead with playing your imaginary political game here on this board pretending like surrendering this Democratic-initiated tax cut for the middle class is going to bring about recovery; all the while there is absolutely NO effort going on that remotely resembles this deficit reduction that you've conjured for your little political play. All you want is for struggling wage earners to sacrifice their tax break to serve your imaginary little internet game.

Do you feel like a big man telling me 'most people that post here know where you are coming from.' Does it make you swell up with pride? Are you getting PM hurrahs? I hope so, because it will be a virtual bloodbath if anyone dares echo your slanderous nonsense where everyone can see the baiting and the bullying for what it is. You can't make a cogent point so you decided to try and set me up in front of whatever audience there is on this wretched thread as a republican. You are a complete fool for going there. You are an even greater one if you actually believe it. You deserve the best of whatever you aspire to. I wish it for you.

It is always someone else that should pay.

[USA4ME]

The bigtree primitive is really caught here.  As a liberal, there isn't a tax he doesn't love, but as a charter member of the "Dear Leader can do no wrong" cult, he must support his master.  In this case, given the current tension between the 100% Dear Leader worshippers and the 99% Dear Leader worshippers on the island, he went with the 100%ers.

.

[GOBUCKS]

lonestarnot (65,949 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
1. I'd gladly pay a grand and give up lunch for a ****ing year to watch Richie Rich have to pay his

fair share.

Very few people who use the term "a grand" have ever had that much on hand at one time.

[JohnnyReb]

The democrats have done so much for me.......I think I'll vote republican.

[jukin]

The bigtree primitive is really caught here.  As a liberal, there isn't a tax he doesn't love, but as a charter member of the "Dear Leader can do no wrong" cult, he must support his master.  In this case, given the current tension between the 100% Dear Leader worshippers and the 99% Dear Leader worshippers on the island, he went with the 100%ers.

This is why liberalism is a mental disease. The question is whether you have to be mentally ill to believe in it or does believing in it make you mentally ill?  It's a chicken egg thing

[DumbAss Tanker]

The democrats have done so much for me.......I think I'll vote republican.

Yeah.  I'm not sure how much more 'Help' like that I can survive.

[Maxiest]

I really try to give them some credit.  I read their post.  Try to understand where they care coming from...  I have for years.  But I have found myself unable to agree with 99.9% of the crap that comes out of their mouths.  And this is a prime example as of why:

The unemployment benefits are actually well-known as an effective stimulus, actually adding to the economic growth we need.

Please tell me how it helps to stimulate the economy by keeping people unemployed. 

[wasp69]

The following is for DUmbass kin-**** and any other liberal chode-gurgler that is demanding they be allowed to reach further in my pocket and take more from my family in the name of "deficit reduction":

Gift Contributions to Reduce Debt Held by the Public

The Bureau of the Public Debt may accept gifts donated to the United States Government to reduce debt held by the public. Acting for the Secretary of the Treasury, Public Debt may accept a gift of:

    * Money, made only on the condition that it be used to reduce debt held by the public.
    * An outstanding government obligation, made only on the condition that the obligation be retired and the redemption proceeds used to reduce debt held by the public.
    * Other intangible personal property made only on the condition that the property is sold and the proceeds from the sale used to reduce the public debt.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/gift/gift.htm

Put up or shut up...

[Mike220]

Reading this post, I started laughing and still have a smile on my face.

How pathetic are they when throwing around accusations of "Republican!!!1!eleventy!!1" is the most potent insult you can reach for.

[Karin]

Oh they do that all the time.  "You rightwing shill!  You Republican!"  It gets them all bent out of shape.  It's amazing they consider each other to be on the same side; they treat each other like absolute shit.

lonestarnot (65,949 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
1. I'd gladly pay a grand and give up lunch for a ****ing year to watch Richie Rich have to pay his
fair share.

Yeah, you go ahead.  Don't get between me and lunch.

He's one of those people.  I remember one bitch who said, "I don't care if I have to live in a gutter, I don't want any rich people around, anywhere!"   

[Zeus]

unemployment benefits are actually well-known as an effective stimulus, actually adding to the economic growth we need.    

Unemployment is at record highs, unemployment benefit payout at historic levels and payout periods are at historic lengths but the economy is in such dire straights. How can this be so ...

[BlueStateSaint]

This is why liberalism is a mental disease. The question is whether you have to be mentally ill to believe in it or does believing in it make you mentally ill?

Yes.

Next question?

[diesel driver]

I really try to give them some credit.  I read their post.  Try to understand where they care coming from...  I have for years.  But I have found myself unable to agree with 99.9% of the crap that comes out of their mouths.  And this is a prime example as of why:

Please tell me how it helps to stimulate the economy by keeping people unemployed. 

It seems to be that the "educated" among us actually believe this crap.  I have a cousin who has degrees in business, and is just as dumb.

I'm with you, how can keeping people unemployed stimulate the economy when: 1) the government has to tax a minimum of $4 out of the private sector to hand out $1 in benefits, and 2) if unemployment benefits actually DO stimulate the economy, then by GOD, ALL of us should get unemployment, and the economy would be going like gangbusters!

[JohnnyReb]

He's one of those people.  I remember one bitch who said, "I don't care if I have to live in a gutter, I don't want any rich people around, anywhere!"

DUmmies mostest fervent Christmas wish.

When we reach that point, the democrats will declare "VICTORY".

Things a DUmmie may think but never admit too.

"I don't want to get out of the gutter, I just want you down here with me."

"I refuse to better myself, so support me now."

"I am somebody, so pay me for doing nothing."

"I don't care how you got it, I want my 'fair' share of it."

[DumbAss Tanker]

It seems to be that the "educated" among us actually believe this crap.  I have a cousin who has degrees in business, and is just as dumb.

I'm with you, how can keeping people unemployed stimulate the economy when: 1) the government has to tax a minimum of $4 out of the private sector to hand out $1 in benefits, and 2) if unemployment benefits actually DO stimulate the economy, then by GOD, ALL of us should get unemployment, and the economy would be going like gangbusters!

It's a micro vs. macro thing; it is true that giving the UE checks out provides a cash source for people to by necessities and consumer goods, which in a micro, short-term sense does mean more goods and services are bought and sold.  Unfortunately for the idiots who stop their analysis at that point, there are larger macro effects, one of which you point out - the tax burden and distribution cost is a multiple of the actual benefits (Though more distributed over time and payers); the other problem is that it keeps the unemployment level high, because as long as people in highly-affected professions can get by on the UE, they will not consider re-tracking into lower-paying, lower-level, or lower-status jobs, but will just keep drawing UE until they are forced to take one of those alternatives.

[Maxiest]

It seems to be that the "educated" among us actually believe this crap.  I have a cousin who has degrees in business, and is just as dumb.

I'm with you, how can keeping people unemployed stimulate the economy when: 1) the government has to tax a minimum of $4 out of the private sector to hand out $1 in benefits, and 2) if unemployment benefits actually DO stimulate the economy, then by GOD, ALL of us should get unemployment, and the economy would be going like gangbusters!

On your #2...  And keeping the same principles as that example, I want to ask the Liberals: "If taxing the producers more and more in this country while giving more and more to the non-producers is the answer to our problems.  What are you going to do when there are no more producers because you have literally taxed them to oblivion?"

I think there are several types of liberals.  Those who just don't think about the end game.  Those who don't care about the end game.  And those who truly hope the end game is a social authoritarian communist state.  I don't know which out of that group worries me the most.  End game being what happens in 20-50 years from now based on the policies that the liberals want.

[diesel driver]

On your #2...  And keeping the same principles as that example, I want to ask the Liberals: "If taxing the producers more and more in this country while giving more and more to the non-producers is the answer to our problems.  What are you going to do when there are no more producers because you have literally taxed them to oblivion?"

I have asked several liberals of the "take from the rich" faith just how Bill Gates, Donald Trump, the Koch brothers, et.al. having umpteen billions of dollars makes my life poorer, and how making them poorer makes my life any better.

Blank stares, all.

I also stated that it was the income tax code that was the cause of the shrinking middle class, by not allowing the middle class to become rich.

I was called closed minded, ignorant, stupid, hick, etc.

Not one refutation of my comment. 

I think there are several types of liberals.  Those who just don't think about the end game.  Those who don't care about the end game.  And those who truly hope the end game is a social authoritarian communist state.  I don't know which out of that group worries me the most.  End game being what happens in 20-50 years from now based on the policies that the liberals want.

There is only one kind of liberal.

Those that "just don't think". 

They only "feel".

[docstew]

DUmmies mostest fervent Christmas wish.

When we reach that point, the democrats will declare "VICTORY".

Things a DUmmie may think but never admit too.

"I don't want to get out of the gutter, I just want you down here with me."

"I refuse to better myself, so support me now."

"I am somebody, so pay me for doing nothing."

"I don't care how you got it, I want what I consider my 'fair' share of it."

FIFY

[I_B_Perky]

I have asked several liberals of the "take from the rich" faith just how Bill Gates, Donald Trump, the Koch brothers, et.al. having umpteen billions of dollars makes my life poorer, and how making them poorer makes my life any better.

Blank stares, all.

I also stated that it was the income tax code that was the cause of the shrinking middle class, by not allowing the middle class to become rich.

I was called closed minded, ignorant, stupid, hick, etc.

Not one refutation of my comment.  There is only one kind of liberal.

Those that "just don't think". 

They only "feel".

That is the just thing DD. I save my money and invest. So how is taxing me on cap gains, dividends, etc gonna help me build long term wealth? Answer is, it ain't.  The money I invest usually goes to small companies that need capital to grow. I'm taking a risk doing that but looking for higher returns. That helps grow the economy. Now the rich, once they are rich, usually invest in tax exempt stuff... like government bonds. I don't blame them, I will too if I ever make it there. But that don't help grow the economy because where does the money come from to pay off the bonds? Taxpayers!!

The real problem here is the welfare parasites. They breed like rabbits and are a complete drain on the country as a whole. Without the dole the government provides them, Darwin would be at work and there would be less of them... as it should be.   

[JohnnyReb]

The real problem here is the welfare parasites. They breed like rabbits and are a complete drain on the country as a whole. Without the dole the government provides them, Darwin would be at work and there would be less of them... as it should be.   

I_B_Perky wants to kill off democrat voters....and I approve of his methods...

[diesel driver]

I_B_Perky wants to kill off democrat voters....and I approve of his methods...

As do I.

Obama once said that we should have "skin in the game".  How's this, then.

Voting rights are for those citizens that own property, or PAY taxes.

Dimrat party would be dead in a year.

[NHSparky]

Dear DUmmies,

I just got my last 2011 paycheck yesterday.  I'll share with you a few tidbits with you:

--Federal Tax witholding--Just over $30,000.
--Social Security--$4485.60 (max)
--Medicare--$1900.

Let's not even get into the state shit.  Now the more clever of you shit-flinging monkeys can figure out that while I do pretty well, it's by no means anywhere near the $250K level that Teleprompter Jebus keeps throwing out there.  In fact, it's barely half that.  I work an average of 55-60 hours a week, not including commute to earn this largess.  I work weekends, nights, and in all weather conditions.  You?  You bitch about not getting the boss to bend over and kiss your ass for showing up.

Also, keep in mind that gas was $1.81/gallon when he took office.  It's now about $3.25, having declined somewhat in the last few months, no thanks to the policies that are keeping fuel costs high (no domestic production, distribution, continued reliance on Middle Eastern oil, etc.)  And yet, did you realize that this year we are going to be a net EXPORTER of gasoline?  Really?  And how do you think the cost of other goods and services is affected by the rapid rise in fuel costs?  Yeah, wrap your single-celled brains around that one and get that synapse firing good and hard, I know you can figure it out eventually.

So any "tax cut" is more than offset by the extra $200/month I pay for gas/heating oil directly, and the extra costs for food, clothing, and pretty much everything else I MUST buy, to say nothing of the purchases I've deferred because of the economy or the unwillingness to take on extra debt because I have to put it towards basic necessities.

Put it another way--think of taxes as an investment in your country, much like one would buy stock in a company.  If the fundamentals are strong and the return on investment is good, people are more willing to buy that stock and make that investment.  Ask yourself this question--if the federal government (and a whole lot of state governments) were private corporations and you looked at their "prospectus", such as it were, would YOU invest in it, knowing you're throwing your money in a hole and not getting shit back for it, comparatively speaking?

And you think I need to pay more, while you sit back and tell me I'M the lazy one?  **** you.  Just **** you.

[JohnnyReb]

All temporary taxcuts should be allowed to expire. ...because it won't effect me at all and besides, with the extra income the democrat politicians might give me more government freebies.[DUmmie/mode]

DUmmies write in incomplete sentences while JohnnyReb writes in long run-on but truthful sentences.

[67 Rover]

Dear DUmmies,

I just got my last 2011 paycheck yesterday.  I'll share with you a few tidbits with you:

--Federal Tax witholding--Just over $30,000.
--Social Security--$4485.60 (max)
--Medicare--$1900.

Let's not even get into the state shit.  Now the more clever of you shit-flinging monkeys can figure out that while I do pretty well, it's by no means anywhere near the $250K level that Teleprompter Jebus keeps throwing out there.  In fact, it's barely half that.  I work an average of 55-60 hours a week, not including commute to earn this largess.  I work weekends, nights, and in all weather conditions.  You?  You bitch about not getting the boss to bend over and kiss your ass for showing up.

Also, keep in mind that gas was $1.81/gallon when he took office.  It's now about $3.25, having declined somewhat in the last few months, no thanks to the policies that are keeping fuel costs high (no domestic production, distribution, continued reliance on Middle Eastern oil, etc.)  And yet, did you realize that this year we are going to be a net EXPORTER of gasoline?  Really?  And how do you think the cost of other goods and services is affected by the rapid rise in fuel costs?  Yeah, wrap your single-celled brains around that one and get that synapse firing good and hard, I know you can figure it out eventually.

So any "tax cut" is more than offset by the extra $200/month I pay for gas/heating oil directly, and the extra costs for food, clothing, and pretty much everything else I MUST buy, to say nothing of the purchases I've deferred because of the economy or the unwillingness to take on extra debt because I have to put it towards basic necessities.

Put it another way--think of taxes as an investment in your country, much like one would buy stock in a company.  If the fundamentals are strong and the return on investment is good, people are more willing to buy that stock and make that investment.  Ask yourself this question--if the federal government (and a whole lot of state governments) were private corporations and you looked at their "prospectus", such as it were, would YOU invest in it, knowing you're throwing your money in a hole and not getting shit back for it, comparatively speaking?

And you think I need to pay more, while you sit back and tell me I'M the lazy one?  **** you.  Just **** you.

I really liked the ADP note attached to my pay check last month.  "EFFECTIVE THIS PAY PERIOD YOU HAVE SATISFIED THE

SOCIAL SECURITY TAX LIMIT."  as if I actually had some sort of choice.