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Mythsaje (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-05-09 01:59 PMOriginal message When first I came to DU I think back to my first few days here, and my first OP, and chuckle. I imagine some folks thought I might be a freeper, or another kind of whack job. I'd arrived here looking for a liberal message board after spending the time since before 9/11 on the About.com civil liberties boards, surrounded by the most part by libertarians and other "conservative" types. I played a middle-of-the-road moderate type who saw things to criticize about both sides of the aisle. I guess I went through a short "Atlas Shrugged" phase, even though I've never read Ayn Rand. I just tried to figure out HOW a civilization based on corporate freedom might work. I think it took me a few months of research and experimentation to reach the conclusion that, well, it couldn't. Individual freedom and corporate freedoms aren't really compatible when you get right down to it.Anyway, if I remember correctly, my first OP here had something to do with the pendulum swinging first one way, then the other, and the fact that I believed BOTH sides of the spectrum had their own authoritarian brigade and that either party/ideology could become a haven for those with the desire to control others.I fled the civil liberties board some months after 9/11 when I realized that so many of the posters there tolerated from the George Bush regime the same kind of behavior they would have decried in the Clinton administration. I realized that for all their talk of "freedom" they really didn't mean it. I never quite understood why they were so up-in-arms about Waco (Koresh was a dangerous nutbag who was bound to sooner or later cause serious problems. I remember Jim Jones and such charismatic cults make me a bit twitchy). I disagree with their methods, but certainly not with the need to bring Koresh under control.On the other hand, I've always understood what offended some about the whole Ruby Ridge incident. It was a desperate overreach of government power to come down on someone who basically just wanted to be left alone, resulting in several unnecessary deaths--including those of the agents on the job. It would behoove the RW weirdos to realize, however, that it happened on Bush 41's watch, not Clinton's.Over the course of the last several years here, I have consolidated my own positions as a left-libertarian, one who believes that corporations deserve and require a lot more oversight than the common man or woman, that individual free speech should be sacrosanct (even if they're saying something with which I disagree) but that MONEY should not and does not in any way equal speech. That corporations are NOT people.It's interesting that I came under fire from the freeper types because I work for a large corporation and therefore somehow my position on the subject is compromised or it somehow designates me a hypocrite. I happen to think members of the RW are truly blind to the concept of hypocrisy in the first place.And I don't think DU has really "pushed" me leftward. If I've moved leftward at all, it's been because I agreed with specific subjects that folks tend to consider more "left." The fact is that I still consider myself more or less moderate, though a member of what Thom Hartmann considers "the radical center." I don't oppose capitalism, or see it as the root of all evil, but I do believe that there are those who abuse it, and even individuals can become too caught up in the quest for material gain. I believe we abandoned our concept of "conspicuous consumption" far too easily. People who acquire too much stuff and insist on flaunting it should be shamed for their selfishness, greed, and inconsideration of those who have nothing.And I've had nothing. I've slept under bridges, and traveled hundreds of miles with nothing more than a fiver in my pocket more times than I care to count. I'll never forget what that feels like, to be mere pennies away from true hunger. More of us, in my opinion, could use that experience to understand what it's really like.But I digress.There are those here on DU who regularly undervalue those who post here, stating that it's a "bubble" rather than reality, but the fact is that I know a lot of people who don't post here or even read DU who are on the same page in many respects. It's not as far-flung a bubble as some might suggest. And there are some things about DU that make it an invaluable tool of connection, of research, of changing perceptions. We have writers such as Will Pitt, Nance Greggs, and others who have a way of getting the point across that can break down barriers.And when things are at their worst, any DUer can find a sympathetic ear and a shoulder on which to pour one's misery. This is, from my experience, NOT a common feature of message boards. It's something very special about DU.So here's to all of us--those who stand for free speech, public safety, citizen oversight of the powerful, an end to corporate personhood, opposition to the wars, prosecution of alleged war criminals, marriage equality, green energy, single-payer, drug law reform, climate change, and a host of other causes. The highest praise I can bestow upon us all is that we're neither morally nor ethically constipated. None of us can be accused of not giving a shit.
get the red out (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-05-09 03:30 PM16. Sounds good to me! Edited on Sun Jul-05-09 03:31 PM by get the red outEven the word "freedom" has become loaded by the right. To them it means the rich not paying taxes and no regulation on corporations. As far as individual freedom? To them it means we only have the freedom to follow the rules of their church.
shireen (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-05-09 06:23 PMResponse to Reply #20 25. "dissent is the highest form of patriotism" Howard Zinn said that. I agree. It's our duty to speak out when we believe we're not being served by the politicians we elected. Some people judge in binary, either all good or all bad. The world is more complex than that. It's possible to appreciate Obama for some things and not for others. I'll continue to speak out when i disagree with him, but no one should ever interpret that as anti-Obama. I feel sad about the state of politics too, truedelphi. It's overwhelming.
Ladyhawk (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-05-09 08:01 PMResponse to Original message 30. Yes, let's all congratulate ourselves. I rarely post here anymore because I don't feel as if I can find a sympathetic ear. I pop in occasionally to marvel at the flame wars and insincerity, then leave...like I will do again as soon as I've had my say.When I needed a sympathetic ear, all I got were flames. As a Californian, I'm living close to the edge because my health care providers were fired by the state. I log onto DU and see people say things like, "Californians made their bed...now they can lie in it."I have a feeling I will be lying six feet under due to the budget cuts.Most of you don't give a rat's ass. You post on a message board and congratulate each other about being right, but when it comes right down to it, you don't care. I outright asked for help once and nobody gave a shit.FU DU
The fact is that I still consider myself more or less moderate, though a member of what Thom Hartmann considers "the radical center."
So here's to all of us--those who stand for free speech, public safety, citizen oversight of the powerful, an end to corporate personhood, opposition to the wars, prosecution of alleged war criminals, marriage equality, green energy, single-payer, drug law reform, climate change, and a host of other causes.
peacetalksforall (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-05-09 06:05 PMResponse to Original message 24. Good points. Well delivered. What I value about DU is being able to get input and insight from so many angles. The collective knowledge and degree of experience to each issue helps to peel away the truths, myths, facts, guesses, theories, and speculation .... quickly. If not quickly, doggedly. Most of the time the deductive process breaks down to a very plausible core. Sometimes it hurts to have it revealed. Sometimes the subject is perfect for hilarious ridicule, sometimes the participants who have bought the propaganda seem silly and it's difficult to be patient, but many times the time spent repeating background makes me feel better because I may be providing background - background that will never be learned from a propaganda machine set-up. I praise and thank everyone who helps us learn from each other. Keep posting - I'll be looking for your entries.
