The Conservative Cave

Interests => Living Off of the Grid & Survivalism => Topic started by: Doppelganger on January 28, 2010, 11:22:12 PM

Title: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: Doppelganger on January 28, 2010, 11:22:12 PM
Woah, there's a board for this here?  :o Awesome.

This is putting out a bit of my personal brand of craziness, so feel free to critique or tell me I'm nutso for this kind of plot, but try not to critique too harshly.  :evillaugh:

I'm a poor college student but I'm growing increasingly skeptical about the value of the degree I'm pursuing, largely because I'm starting to think there might be more promise in just trying to make a go as an independent coder than of going off to get crammed in a cubicle somewhere. So this has led me to something of a desire to pursue a lifestyle a bit outside of the norm.

I work two jobs and I've spent a couple years saving up a fairly decent amount of money. This summer, I plan on buying a sizable piece of wooded land, clearing some of it out (or not, depends on the lay of the land itself), and building on it. I figure this is the ideal time, because property values in my area are at record lows.

I'm looking into building a 'cob' house. These have been touted by eco-crazies a lot, but they're actually pretty damned cool. They're sturdy, cheap (you still have to buy electrical and plumbing materials, but the walls themselves are practically free), and very economically friendly, which I actually do think is a good thing (I believe in keeping natural environments undisturbed where possible, not necessarily all the global warming stuff). Plus, it's basically a DIY house, as much as one ever can be.

http://www.daycreek.com/DC/html/DC_cob.htm
http://planetsave.com/files/2008/09/hildecobinsnow.jpg

I got the idea from watching an episode of 'Dirty Jobs'.  :lmao:

So, the game plan is: buy the property, sucker my more knowledgeable relatives (I have a lot who know how to build, wire, and plumb things better than I do) into helping, and start out building a couple storage sheds or the like that I can afford to screw up on. Later, probably next year or the year after when my experience with this stuff is a little more solid, I'll start on a house. There are more practical matters of building permits and junk to deal with, but I'm not too concerned about that stuff out here in the boonies.

Then, I wanna hook these things up to wind and solar power, heat them with wood... essentially, eliminate as many bills as possible and make them as 'survivalist-ready' as possible. I want to learn to farm, too - which I plan on starting ASAP, though this summer (or even next) might be too early to hope for between two jobs and the research and early building process.

Anyway, once I'm done, I want to give a big  :tongue: to the grid.

I also want to build one of these things for my parents if I ever get good at it, but I'll keep my ambitions low and focus on managing one of my own first. I'm already thinking this will be a half-decade to decade long process. But I don't trust the Fed to help my family in old age, and family looks out for its own, so it is an eventual goal. My mom is pretty liberal and she'd go crazy over this 'natural building' crap without realizing that's not my motive at all.  :evillaugh:

Heck, maybe I'll even make a few posts here about progress over the summer. I'm sure I'll be encountering lots of setbacks and getting myself neck-deep into this stuff, but it's a dream, and it's a productive thing to keep myself doing.

So, I'm curious... anyone else have any cuckoo plans like this they've done, are doing, or are thinking of doing?
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: longview on January 29, 2010, 12:37:44 AM
I had never heard of a "cob" house.  Looks and sounds similar to some of the rammed earth houses we have in our area.  I've only been in one, but have met most of the other owners, too.  They really like them.  The oldest, that I know of, is only about 40+ years here. 

Sure sounds like a good way to go to me. 

Know one family that had a bunch of teen-aged sons.  Way too much energy one summer, so the parents put them to work building a single-story barn and shop out of straw bales, covered in a stucco type material.  They like the way it's performing and are thinking of building a house out of the same.  I guess someone else in the area has been living in one for years.

Good luck.  I'll be interested to hear how it goes.
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: Doppelganger on January 29, 2010, 12:41:59 AM
Yeah, that sounds somewhat similar. This one would need to be covered in stucco or something like it, too, or Michigan weather will grind it down quick.

However, apparently this type of construction in England has lasted for 500 years in some cases (with people still living in structures that old), so I get the feeling that if it's done right, it will have the same virtue of longevity that many old styles of building did.

Quote
Good luck.  I'll be interested to hear how it goes.

Thanks!

Several of my friends have gotten really curious about this from my blathering and have asked or joked around about helping out this summer (without my asking, no less). I'm inclined to let them, of course, and am also thinking of possibly letting them build something similar on the property if they put in the hard work and are willing to compensate for it and pitch in on the farming and whatnot. If I end up buying 40 or 50 acres, which is what I'm looking at, it's not like there wouldn't be room. :-) Naturally I'd expect a bit of compensation, but not that much for my friends. Basically just a share of property tax and any odd bills like 'net access. If 'TSHTF' as the other thread title puts it, my first choice would be to hunker down somewhere nice and defensible, and better to have more than just two or three people around in that case. And plus house-building from widely available materials would be one hell of a useful thing to know and teach others.
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: LC EFA on January 29, 2010, 01:25:15 AM
Well - I'm interested in doing something similar. Mostly because I really don't much care for living in surburbia and would prefer a place where I don't see or hear my neighbors at any time (AND where I can happily shoot at things from the comfort of the back deck or patio).

I'm chasing between 50 and 300 acres with the primary requirement being a creek or river that actually flows all year around.

That's plenty of land to establish a hobby-type farm on and grow some low impact meats and plenty of fruits and vegetables without having to turn the lot into a barren plain.

Plan is to construct a large industrial metal shed partitioned into a heavy workshop and a processing facility, then an open plan type living area and barracks (iron and steel for the most part with some concrete thrown in for good measure).

The part of the world I live in doesn't really do winter and I'm cool with a degree of (lack of) privacy that would shock most people so it's mostly dust and insects that I need to keep out of living and processing.
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: Doppelganger on January 29, 2010, 02:11:12 AM
Sounds pretty sweet, LC - out of curiosity, how do you weatherproof that kind of structure when it comes to rainstorms and whatnot?
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: LC EFA on January 29, 2010, 02:37:54 AM
Corrugated Iron is a very common building material here - joins in sheets of iron are friction sealed , because the iron lays very flat into the corrugations of the next sheet , and the screws that hold the iron to the frame draw it on very tightly.

Corners where sheets join along a vertical edge are sealed with flashing's (the iron supplier bends them to spec).

 ColorBondâ„¢ (http://www.colorbond.com/) is what I've used on my existing house - never has to be painted, is strong and easy to work with. 

Open plan living areas are sealed with tracked louver doors - Essentially a track with several louver panels that can be joined togther and closed in the case of of a big storm, or stacked and rolled out of the way to allow cross ventilation.

Other than that regular doors and windows.
 
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: Mushroom on February 19, 2010, 05:55:11 PM
For power I would suggest solar shingles.  They are a bit expensive, but depending on your power needs they can repay themselves within a few years.  And if you are in an area with wind or running water, small-scale wind and water turbines are readily available.  I have seen them done with little more then truck alternators.

And also look into back-ups, like a generator and battery system to store the charge.  And consider leaving it on the electrical grid if you can.  There are actually requirements that the local power company has to buy your unused electricity.  A lot of people actually get paychecks from their local utility, which can be really nice revenge.  :)

And if you want to be totally self-sufficient, make sure that you can install a well for water.  Otherwise you will only last as long as your water supply does.
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: The Village Idiot on February 19, 2010, 06:33:09 PM
Dopp-

I wish I could move out to the country. I'm stuck.

I don't know if we have even 5 years before TSHTF. It could happen next year.

There are 5 acre tracts in south Texas going for $3000 or so. Of course you might as well live in Mexico and its basically desert. heh
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: JLO on April 12, 2010, 10:52:36 PM
Dopp-

I wish I could move out to the country. I'm stuck.

I don't know if we have even 5 years before TSHTF. It could happen next year.

There are 5 acre tracts in south Texas going for $3000 or so. Of course you might as well live in Mexico and its basically desert. heh

Yikes, is that a typo?  "There are 5 acre tracts in south Texas going for $3000 or so."

Unreal.   :thatsright:
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: The Village Idiot on April 13, 2010, 07:26:27 AM
Yikes, is that a typo?  "There are 5 acre tracts in south Texas going for $3000 or so."

Unreal.   :thatsright:

In the desert.

I was off a little bit. Its 10 acres for $12,500 apparently. Like I said, desert.

http://www.land-for-sale-texas.com/

That $3,000 figure must have gotten stuck in my head, it was a lot on the lake, probably floods very often.
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: JLO on April 13, 2010, 08:26:48 PM
In the desert.

I was off a little bit. Its 10 acres for $12,500 apparently. Like I said, desert.

http://www.land-for-sale-texas.com/

That $3,000 figure must have gotten stuck in my head, it was a lot on the lake, probably floods very often.

Well that Antelope place w/10 acres for $12,500 is cheap!  Like you said, it's desert, but I saw some hills in the background.  If someone likes to live in TX, seems like a good deal.

Forested land in northern MN (not lake shore) runs about $10-12K an acre.  Lake shore property is out of this world pricey, imo.

 :cheersmate:
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: The Village Idiot on April 13, 2010, 08:38:03 PM
It says you can dig a well, but I wonder how deep that would have to be.
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: JLO on April 13, 2010, 09:37:05 PM
I had never heard of a "cob" house.  Looks and sounds similar to some of the rammed earth houses we have in our area.  I've only been in one, but have met most of the other owners, too.  They really like them.  The oldest, that I know of, is only about 40+ years here. 

Sure sounds like a good way to go to me. 

Know one family that had a bunch of teen-aged sons.  Way too much energy one summer, so the parents put them to work building a single-story barn and shop out of straw bales, covered in a stucco type material.  They like the way it's performing and are thinking of building a house out of the same.  I guess someone else in the area has been living in one for years.

Good luck.  I'll be interested to hear how it goes.

I never heard of cob either, but it might work.  I think it would break down.

I have seen some hay homes that work.

http://www.ahouseofstraw.com

Mother Earth News magazine is on-line these days and always has good stuff...that's where I first saw bales of hay made into a house. 

www.motherearthnews.com

 :beer:

Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: Alpha Mare on April 13, 2010, 10:16:51 PM
I never heard of cob either, but it might work.  I think it would break down.

I have seen some hay homes that work.

http://www.ahouseofstraw.com

Mother Earth News magazine is on-line these days and always has good stuff...that's where I first saw bales of hay made into a house. 

www.motherearthnews.com

 :beer:



I'm building a straw bale house. In South Texas. In the Desierto de Los Muertos, as it so fondly was once known.  :-)
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on April 15, 2010, 04:15:27 PM
I'm building a straw bale house. In South Texas. In the Desierto de Los Muertos, as it so fondly was once known.  :-)

 :rotf:

Sounds delightful!
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: Thor on April 20, 2010, 04:34:40 PM
Desert of the Dead........... hmmmm........ I want to be away from civilization, but not with the "dead".... :o

JLO, no way would I want to live in Northern MN. Some place perhaps around Granite Falls would be OK. Probably North on 23 from there, though or out by where I used to hunt.
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: Rick on April 20, 2010, 09:50:22 PM
You might try the "land/Leases" on Gunbroker

Land & Leases (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Browse.aspx?Cat=3003)

or

Bid for assets

Bid4assets (http://www.bid4assets.com/)

There are some 40 to 80 acre lots in northern Nevada and I thought I saw some large lots in west Texas that were cheap.


Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: vesta111 on May 24, 2010, 09:24:47 AM
You might try the "land/Leases" on Gunbroker

Land & Leases (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Browse.aspx?Cat=3003)

or

Bid for assets

Bid4assets (http://www.bid4assets.com/)

There are some 40 to 80 acre lots in northern Nevada and I thought I saw some large lots in west Texas that were cheap.


Lately the web sites have been posting a survival guide for those caught in floods, tornado, blizzard etc.


Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: The Village Idiot on May 24, 2010, 09:36:44 AM
If anyone happens to win the big lotto, I saw a southern Wyoming tract of 77,600+ acres for $32.5 million. Its beautiful with a winding river going through it and herds of deer and elk and stuff.
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: delilahmused on July 06, 2010, 06:37:11 PM
Another great resource is Backwoods Home (http://www.backwoodshome.com/). Sort of like a more conservative Mother Earth News.

Cindie
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: JohnnyReb on July 07, 2010, 07:20:18 AM
My Survivalist Game Plan  ....I'm getting to old for all this building, farming, hunter/gather stuff. I'm gonna find a rich unarmed DUmmie and just move in and take over....he can stay in the basement or the tool shed out back. :-)

Seriously, and I do mean seriously....I wonder how Styrofoam peanuts, cement and chicken wire would do as a building medium. Just form up the walls (inside and out, maybe 12" to 18" thick) and top, then pour with tied chicken wire coils for strength. Coat the top with fibreglass or some other long lasting water proof er.....OR...add siding and shingles for a more conventional look.
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: LC EFA on July 07, 2010, 08:19:57 AM
My Survivalist Game Plan  ....I'm getting to old for all this building, farming, hunter/gather stuff. I'm gonna find a rich unarmed DUmmie and just move in and take over....he can stay in the basement or the tool shed out back. :-)

Seriously, and I do mean seriously....I wonder how Styrofoam peanuts, cement and chicken wire would do as a building medium. Just form up the walls (inside and out, maybe 12" to 18" thick) and top, then pour with tied chicken wire coils for strength. Coat the top with fibreglass or some other long lasting water proof er.....OR...add siding and shingles for a more conventional look.

I don't know about the Styrofoam peanuts , but cement , sand , aggregate and chicken wire work just fine. You want to add some more steel if it's a load bearing member though.
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: JohnnyReb on July 07, 2010, 08:39:14 AM
I don't know about the Styrofoam peanuts , but cement , sand , aggregate and chicken wire work just fine. You want to add some more steel if it's a load bearing member though.

I was thinking cement, sand and granite fines with the peanuts as filler/insulation. It would be light weight and easy to work with. Even if the peanuts eventually rotted away the air pockets would still act as insulation.

Just another one of my early morning daydreaming things.
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: ConservativeJoeG on July 09, 2010, 03:57:21 PM
I think that you can get far with a sniper rifle and camo.
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on July 10, 2010, 09:23:22 AM
I think that you can get far with a sniper rifle and camo.

If your plan is to kill other people and take their shit, yeah, otherwise there are some serious shortcomings to it.
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: JohnnyReb on July 10, 2010, 09:28:25 AM
If your plan is to kill other people and take their shit, yeah, otherwise there are some serious shortcomings to it.

It's kind of hard to plow and plant with a sniper rifle....but it makes harvesting easy.
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: vesta111 on July 10, 2010, 04:18:21 PM
It's kind of hard to plow and plant with a sniper rifle....but it makes harvesting easy.

AH the crazy French.  Growing up spending time in the summer at Grandmas camp just down the road, there was a camp made of glass bottles. 

This place fascinated us kids. We spent hours a week sitting on its porch trying to see what was inside. Grandma told us that the camp had been built when she was a kid and belonged to a Canadian family.   The place had been vacant for 30 or more years at that time but someone was paying the taxes .

How the place was built, the outside walls were made of cement with glass soda and beer bottles rammed into the cement so the bottom of the bottles faced outward, the neck of the bottles inward.   The bottles were all the same size and of different colors. Clear, green, brown , and a dark red.  We could not see inside as the shutters were closed and trying to see anything through the heavy bottoms of the bottles was impossible.    We could tell that the bottles were empty and uncapped as light from the inside from the higher windows  that had no shutters came through them, it faced west in mid afternoon.

Had this happend today in this generations we most likely would have broken in out of curiosity.   One of the biggest mystery's of my youth was that camp, the cement was after all that time in good shape, none of the bottles we could see were broken or damaged in any way.  I believe the spacing of the bottles was of great import, some master designer built that place.

This camp was 50 feet to the river, salt water and subjected to temperature shifts all year long.

The place was finally torn down 25 years later and a modern home replaced it.

So what had kept this bottle and cement camp from falling apart after all those years.?

Was the cement that stuff that is used to build bridges that hardens the wetter it gets ?  Pharaoh cement developed thousands of years ago by the Romans ??


Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: LC EFA on July 10, 2010, 05:35:58 PM
I think that you can get far with a sniper rifle and camo.

The people with anything worth taking already have plans in place to deal with such things.
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: BlueStateSaint on July 10, 2010, 05:57:52 PM
The people with anything worth taking already have plans in place to deal with such things.


Not necessarily.  A lot of those people have no plan.  They think that they will be able to buy their way out of trouble. :lmao:
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: vesta111 on July 10, 2010, 06:01:13 PM
The people with anything worth taking already have plans in place to deal with such things.


Disagree, the drug houses have the pit bulls but no state of the art security system.

 Most people are predictable they hide things in places anyone else would do.

Once in awhile people will set up security cameras in their homes that they can monitor from work.  These are the few that get publicity when they call the cops when they see their home broken into.


Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: LC EFA on July 10, 2010, 06:14:52 PM
Disagree, the drug houses have the pit bulls but no state of the art security system.

 Most people are predictable they hide things in places anyone else would do.

Once in awhile people will set up security cameras in their homes that they can monitor from work.  These are the few that get publicity when they call the cops when they see their home broken into.

This assumes the status quot is maintained in a survival situation.

Once the lights go out - all the rules change and all bets are off.
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: Inga on July 12, 2010, 11:24:41 PM
Doppelganger, I don't know exactly where you were going to buy.But I will say if you have aquifers or can search out the aquifers  in your area, that would be a start. The cob house sounds great,But you might want to build it against a hill or small mountain. It would lead for protection for the weather and the enemy.

When Thor was in San Angelo,I took a trip out to see him. So as I drove out I'm thinking in survival mode. There are aquifers there and lots of game. And  there is also lots of vegetation that is edible and also medicinal.  But there again you need to know your plant and how to prepare them both way. I'd suggest some hands on course. I learned from an Army engineer and survivalist,and book and online courses. East of Abilene,to south San Angelo.There are at least 3 aquifers there. You have a good plan,Good Luck.
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: vesta111 on July 13, 2010, 09:21:45 PM
Doppelganger, I don't know exactly where you were going to buy.But I will say if you have aquifers or can search out the aquifers  in your area, that would be a start. The cob house sounds great,But you might want to build it against a hill or small mountain. It would lead for protection for the weather and the enemy.

When Thor was in San Angelo,I took a trip out to see him. So as I drove out I'm thinking in survival mode. There are aquifers there and lots of game. And  there is also lots of vegetation that is edible and also medicinal.  But there again you need to know your plant and how to prepare them both way. I'd suggest some hands on course. I learned from an Army engineer and survivalist,and book and online courses. East of Abilene,to south San Angelo.There are at least 3 aquifers there. You have a good plan,Good Luck.

Inga, I could not find an aquifer if my live were at stake.--However---

I became very interested in Dousing as a child.  When Dad built our home he had friends in the military that knew a thing or two about water tables and underground water supply.  On a few occasions they came to the building site and found a couple of sites they suggested he drill for a well.  After both sites turned up dry Dad was at witts end.  He complained to the owner of the only gas and snack store in town about his problem, the owner gave Dad a phone number to call for help.

Dad made the call and a few days later this rattle trap truck showed up and to me at 10 years old, the driver looked ancient--he was about 60 years old-- and he took from his truck a Y forked Witch Hazel stick and a stick with a red ribbon on it and went off alone to look for water.

My MOM with a bit of eye rolling and sarcastic voice told me this man was a so called diviner and trying to help us.  Dad said nothing but I could see he was, after the experts could not find water a bit dubious himself.

The old man was out there with that Y stick for 2 hours at least and I went off to to watch tv or what ever when he came back.

I went outside in time to hear him tell my dad that he had gotten one Hell of a pull, very strong and less then 50 feet down.  He had put the stick with the ribbon on it at the sight to dig and was smilling ear to ear.

He left after charging Dad $5.00 for his time and gas money and then the conversations between my parents and their parents began.  Money was tight, Dad had put out a pretty penny for the first  2 holes to be dug, should he call his friends back for another look or trust some old man, a complete stranger  with a stick and give this a try.

Mom was still rolling her eyes but her father my Pepe said what did Dad have to loose.

Out came the drillers and at 50 feet ran into an artisan well. 

Mom stopped rolling her eyes just mentioned off the cuff that Dad could have dug that well himself and saved some money.

So Inga, How is this done, I have read up on it and some people say anyone with a coat hanger can get some results.

Ah the great mysterys of life and how some of the OLD ways work better then our new fangled ways today.
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: LC EFA on July 13, 2010, 09:49:14 PM
Inga, I could not find an aquifer if my live were at stake.--However---

I became very interested in Dousing as a child.  When Dad built our home he had friends in the military that knew a thing or two about water tables and underground water supply.  On a few occasions they came to the building site and found a couple of sites they suggested he drill for a well.  After both sites turned up dry Dad was at witts end.  He complained to the owner of the only gas and snack store in town about his problem, the owner gave Dad a phone number to call for help.

...

Ah the great mysterys of life and how some of the OLD ways work better then our new fangled ways today.

I've met people who claimed to be able to divine various things using two pieces of wire, and otherwise rational and level headed people that subscribe to the idea. None of the people that claimed proficiency were prepared to demonstrate their skills.
Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: vesta111 on July 13, 2010, 10:34:17 PM
I've met people who claimed to be able to divine various things using two pieces of wire, and otherwise rational and level headed people that subscribe to the idea. None of the people that claimed proficiency were prepared to demonstrate their skills.

You need to do a bit of research on this.  There are clubs for this sort of thing that welcome all.  They have twice a year demonstrations and contests for the members.

Title: Re: My Survivalist Game Plan
Post by: Inga on July 13, 2010, 11:03:04 PM
Vesta, This would be the time to research your aquifers in your area.
But in the desert:
look in valleys and low area
at foot of concave banks of dry river beds
at foot of cliffs
look for green vegetation,as as cottonwood along dried beds. cottonwoods drink a lot of water
Or look for agave plants and barrel catus

An about the dowsing, my dad use to dows for water on a farm we had in Denton. Also that's what he use to find water on the farm he has now.I myself have used dowsing to find water and septic lines.I also want dowsing for health.

I have used the willows,but at present I have the steel rods.As to how they work,I not sure. Some say electromagnetic or Vortex possibilities.

But I do know they work.I found some links on "you tube" but my computer is acting flaky.Thor has the parts ordered.Just a matter of time.The one I liked was through monkeysee.com video.

To me plant knowledge is vital for survival. That way you don't have to depend on man less. You can dip farther in.