primitives whine about over-regulation of farms

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1182888

Oh my.

Well, beat me over the head with a wet noodle.

I always thought the primitives loved governmental oversight and regulation.

But apparently not, if it affects them.  That's for other people, oversight and regulation.

mopinko (40,437 posts)    Tue Feb 11, 2014, 09:22 PM

right to farm.

from my farm blog-

i'd be so sunk without the hive mind. the things i learn.

from a discussion on the advocates for urban agriculture message board about sales of produce from gardens and farms-
 
I have always thought that state law made it very clear that sales are completely permissible and even the idea that you can only have incidental sales as part of zoning is actually illegal so long as you are on private property. The following is the text for the IL Farm Products Marketing Act, the law goes back to the late 1800s and there is only one court case related to it in which the courts ruled that the state could still charge a sales tax but in a way affirmed the rest of the law.
 
(505 ILCS 70/1) (from Ch. 5, par. 91)
Sec. 1. Every farmer, fruit and vine grower, and gardener, shall have an undisputed right to sell the produce of his farm, orchard, vineyard and garden in any place or market where such articles are usually sold, and in any quantity he may think proper, without paying any state, county or city tax, or license, for doing so, any law, city or town ordinance to the contrary notwithstanding: Provided, that the corporate authorities of any such city, town or village may prohibit the obstruction of its streets, alleys and public places for any such purpose: And, provided further, that nothing in this Act shall be so construed as to authorize the sale of spirituous, vinous or malt liquors, contrary to laws which now are or hereafter may be in force prohibiting the sale thereof.
(Source: P.A. 84-1308.)

that pesky old home rule thing might be able to trump this. but the city laws def do not comport with this.

later in the discussion it was noted that every state has some sort of right to grow, right to sell law.
 
i had no idea.

note: the hypochondrial primitive's sloppy formatting amended by franksolich so as to make it more readable

fasttense (15,283 posts)    Wed Feb 12, 2014, 07:59 AM

1. The right to farm and sell

That's the real issue - being able to sell to retail customers. The right to sell your produce. Here in TN we are required by law to wash eggs. My mother, who use to work on a huge egg farm in Maryland many years ago, said she never washed and egg in her life. But here in TN we have to wash our eggs in order to sell them. Not only that but we had to have a special egg washing room to wash the eggs in. A dedicated special room for a totally unnecessary act.

And one of the requirements was that you couldn't have any goldfish in the house that the special egg washing room was in. We regularly failed our inspection of our special egg washing room because our wall surfaces were not easily cleanable, or the floor need vinyl or tile and not concrete, and because we had my daughter's goldfish in her bedroom upstairs, 3 floors away from the special egg washing room. Thank God they repealed that stupid law.
 
But now they have created a new stupid law. You have to have a special room for the freezer you are going to put meat in. We get our meat slaughtered, vacuum packaged and flash frozen at a USDA inspected slaughtering house. We pick up the meat and temporally store it in a freezer. But Now you have to have a special room to put a freezer in that will hold meat that you will take out of that freezer and put into a cooler and take to the market to sell. We are currently working at building a special room to put a meat freezer in. Now we know the walls have to have cleanable surfaces (not wall paper). We know the floor can't be concrete and we just wont tell the inspector about the goldfish 2 floors up. All of this costs us $59 every year plus the cost of building a special meat freezer room.
 
Here in TN the local government is constantly putting up barriers to prevent farmers from selling their produce at retail prices. I guess Wally World is getting nervous.

[Big Dog]

mopinko (40,437 posts)    Tue Feb 11, 2014, 09:22 PM

i'd be so sunk without the hive mind.

You're an idiot, Mo Pinko, but you DU know where to go to get your daily maintenance dose of hive mind (mental Methadone).

Even a blind, insane, mangy squirrel with bad tattoos finds an acorn now and then.

[obumazombie]

You're an idiot, Mo Pinko, but you DU know where to go to get your daily maintenance dose of hive mind (mental Methadone).

Even a blind, insane, mangy squirrel with bad tattoos finds an acorn now and then.

Don't forget the piercings.
They always have money for a trip to the piercing parlor with a dip of tobacco in while smoking hollowed out swisher sweets that are "wet".

[diesel driver]

fasttense (15,283 posts)    Wed Feb 12, 2014, 07:59 AM

That's the real issue - being able to sell to retail customers. The right to sell your produce. Here in TN we are required by law to wash eggs. My mother, who use to work on a huge egg farm in Maryland many years ago, said she never washed and egg in her life. But here in TN we have to wash our eggs in order to sell them. Not only that but we had to have a special egg washing room to wash the eggs in. A dedicated special room for a totally unnecessary act.

I live in Virginia, and I remember my uncle having to wash the eggs he sold to market, 40 years ago!  Mostly due to the fact it's hard to sell eggs with chicken shit on them!

I guess Wally World is getting nervous.

It's ain't Wally World, Fattass!  Want to get a real laugh, check out any of the regs EPA has cranked out for farmers over the last 40 years.  Back in 1978, on our dairy farm, we had to fill out a request for a permit for a 350,000 gallon manure hold tank, which had this question on it:
"List the closest body of water (river, lake, pond, stream, etc.) that this structure will NOT be emptying into."

Nearest anything was a farm pond 3/4 miles away, and UPHILL from our tank.  Because of that, we almost didn't get the f'n permit!

In 1980, you needed a pesticide application permit to purchase only 2 herbicides, Paraquat and Roundup.  Today, you can't drive by the farm store and glance in it's general direction without one!  You almost need one to get rat poison!

Today when you spray your fields, you have to list the time of day, wind speed and direction, herbicide used, how much, how applied, and humidity.  On a side note, there has only been one example of an EPA official coming in this area to check such records, and he was promptly told to leave and not come back, by an irate farmer with a shotgun.   

                                 

[Ptarmigan]

Good grief! I thought they like big government. No?   Well gees,

[Chris_]

Imagine that... a liberal that doesn't want to pay taxes.  That's someone else's job.

[delilahmused]

Hey DU, it's your ****ing side that's responsible for this! Drive down I5 through what used to be the California breadbasket. Water was stripped from farmers to protect a stupid sucker fish. Up here, we get paid for killing them, their parasites that destroy salmon species by eating their eggs. Right now there's some poor schmuck being fined $75,000 a day and he's not breaking any law. He built a well that was exempt from the regulations he's being fined for. The farm bureau bill now being pushed on us makes it even harder for small and organic farmers...you know the ones you guys supposedly think should be the only ones in business. I would NEVER take a government subsidy, but you might consider why it's easier for large, rich "farmers" who don't live on, or work their "farm", like Bruce Springsteen, get subsidies every single year (probably worried about income inequality and all that) and many small farmers can't because their farms are too small. The Food Safety Modernization Act isn't helping. All you guys are flippin ecstatic about Farmer's Markets, but thinks to your precious government regulation, if things don't change, they could become a dying breed. Leave it to you guys and your incessant need to control every aspect of our lives to destroy everything you're supposed to be championing.

Cindie

[Rebel]

Hey DU, it's your ****ing side that's responsible for this! Drive down I5 through what used to be the California breadbasket. Water was stripped from farmers to protect a stupid sucker fish. Up here, we get paid for killing them, their parasites that destroy salmon species by eating their eggs. Right now there's some poor schmuck being fined $75,000 a day and he's not breaking any law. He built a well that was exempt from the regulations he's being fined for. The farm bureau bill now being pushed on us makes it even harder for small and organic farmers...you know the ones you guys supposedly think should be the only ones in business. I would NEVER take a government subsidy, but you might consider why it's easier for large, rich "farmers" who don't live on, or work their "farm", like Bruce Springsteen, get subsidies every single year (probably worried about income inequality and all that) and many small farmers can't because their farms are too small. The Food Safety Modernization Act isn't helping. All you guys are flippin ecstatic about Farmer's Markets, but thinks to your precious government regulation, if things don't change, they could become a dying breed. Leave it to you guys and your incessant need to control every aspect of our lives to destroy everything you're supposed to be championing.

Cindie

 

Beat me to it.

[JohnnyReb]

You should see the red tape and trouble a farmer has to go through to sell produce to a retail store....you can sell it at a farmers market without all that crap....or just leave the crap on it for the organic DUmmies.

[Rebel]

You should see the red tape and trouble a farmer has to go through to sell produce to a retail store....you can sell it at a farmers market without all that crap....or just leave the crap on it for the organic DUmmies.

These Prog f'ers don't even want you to be able to do anything on your own land:


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/14/wyoming-welder-faces-fine-for-building-pond-on-his-own-property/


It's getting damn near the breaking point.

[JohnnyReb]

These Prog f'ers don't even want you to be able to do anything on your own land:


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/14/wyoming-welder-faces-fine-for-building-pond-on-his-own-property/


It's getting damn near the breaking point.

When I was a kid(50's) the government paid a good portion of the expense for the construction of farm ponds. When my dad got out of the grading business in '55, he had built 2/3's of the farm ponds in our county. I was the little idiot holding the grade rod on most of them.

20years later(70's), I went into the grading business and built quite a few ponds myself, both government funded and privately funded. During the Jimmy Carter administration, you had to get a government conducted impact study, government plans and permit to build any water retention structure. A few years later, under Bill Clinton, the cost of those studies and plan drawing was shifted to the land owner and private civil engineers for large farm structures.... just a few of the "25,000 Professional Jobs" he and Al Gore bragged about having added to the economy in their first month in office......this applied to any grading what-so-ever that covered more than 2 acres.

BTW: the dude with the problem in your article might be in trouble for "not fencing out" the pond so his horses can't get to it. They are beginning to get strict on farmers fencing out ponds and streams so live stock can't get to them. It's still OK for deer, bears and everything else to shit in the streams. 

[Rebel]

BTW: the dude with the problem in your article might be in trouble for "not fencing out" the pond so his horses can't get to it. They are beginning to get strict on farmers fencing out ponds and streams so live stock can't get to them. It's still OK for deer, bears and everything else to shit in the streams. 

Prog logic isn't logical.