Author Topic: I Want My Country Back  (Read 18933 times)

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Offline rich_t

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #75 on: July 21, 2010, 06:05:53 PM »
Quote
Where are the jobs these people need to survive??  

Either driven out of business or out of the country due to the very types of over regulation and over taxation that your ilk seem to approve of.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #76 on: July 21, 2010, 06:49:14 PM »
Either driven out of business or out of the country due to the very types of over regulation and over taxation that your ilk seem to approve of.
The left, especially DU, is frothing with rancid hatred for anyone deemed "rich". The rich are portrayed as lying, exploitative thieves.

With that sort of social stigma alone why would anyone endeavor to be rich. Then you get to heap on the regulatory controls and taxes.

So when liberals hate the rich people either stop striving or they port their assets more accommodating yet the liberals howl about jobs going overseas.

Can you imagine a woman screaming about the evils of alcohol then becoming furious you bought a drink for some other girl.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #77 on: July 21, 2010, 06:59:14 PM »
Carl, how do you then increase jobs, don't raise taxes, and lessen regulations??
And then attack the deficit??

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #78 on: July 21, 2010, 07:11:22 PM »
Carl, how do you then increase jobs, don't raise taxes, and lessen regulations??
And then attack the deficit??
Jobs = revenue

economic activity = revenue

The trick isn't to stop taxing people but to understand there is a point where taxing TOO MUCH is actually counter productive. There is a point of diminishing returns on both ends of the economic spectrum.

Just ask yourself: if you had a choice of 2 jobs that both paid $60,000 but Job #1 had a aggregate tax rate of 30% vs. Job #2 with its aggregate tax rate of 55%, which job would you take?

Which job would allow you to engage in more economic activity thereby providing jobs to other people as well?
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline rich_t

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #79 on: July 21, 2010, 07:15:52 PM »
The left, especially DU, is frothing with rancid hatred for anyone deemed "rich". The rich are portrayed as lying, exploitative thieves.

With that sort of social stigma alone why would anyone endeavor to be rich. Then you get to heap on the regulatory controls and taxes.

So when liberals hate the rich people either stop striving or they port their assets more accommodating yet the liberals howl about jobs going overseas.

Can you imagine a woman screaming about the evils of alcohol then becoming furious you bought a drink for some other girl.

I have spent very little time over at DU.  But I've dealt with enough liberals to come to a comclusion that many of them deem anyone that makes more than they personally do, are "rich".  Of course for some reason they are willing to give a free pass to the liberal hollywood crowd and multi-millionaire DEM politicians.

When was thr last time you heard of a "poor" person creating jobs?  I have never heard of one.

But I have heard of several "so called" rich creating tons of them.  Small business owners create the bulk of them.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline rich_t

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #80 on: July 21, 2010, 07:18:09 PM »
Carl, how do you then increase jobs, don't raise taxes, and lessen regulations??
And then attack the deficit??

Let us change tracks just slightly.

In your opinion what should the minimum wage be in dollars per hour?
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline Godot showed up

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #81 on: July 21, 2010, 08:05:33 PM »
It is for us to decide how much of our wealth government is permitetd to have and use, it is not for government to decide what is ours to keep. That is one of the true core principles of government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Once government has control of all property and wealth, all other rights are not worth the paper they're inked upon. Government is our creature, not we the creatures of the government.


At least, until Obama.

Offline Carl

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #82 on: July 21, 2010, 08:07:41 PM »
Carl, how do you then increase jobs, don't raise taxes, and lessen regulations??
And then attack the deficit??

You didn`t answer my question but I will yours.

You provide for an atmosphere of growth where it is a worthy goal to be an entrepreneur rather then one taxed and regulated either out of existence or to a level of return for the output of capital to make a business be so unrewarded as to not make it worth the hassle of doing it.

It isn`t that difficult a thing to grasp and where the left fails is they don`t recognize it does take capital and hard work to build a business,not to mention risk.
They seem to operate from a belief that all things they know exist from a steady state.
Yes there will be well known successful business men and women but there will also be a lot more that weren`t and are never heard of.

You act as if they never existed but they do so why then should those who have succeeded in such ways as providing the computer you post on and the infrastructure needed to allow it be punished by mandate of oppressive taxation that the left yearns for?

Offline Godot showed up

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #83 on: July 21, 2010, 09:38:40 PM »
Even if a command economy dictated from a central government somehow produced a better economy than individuals acting with their own wealth--which it doesn't, never has, and never will--that better economy would not be worth exchanging our freedoms for.


"Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing;
'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands;
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him,
And makes me poor indeed."*


Substitute freedoms for "good name" and Shakespeare's words are just as applicable. The rub is, though, that he who steals my purse steals my freedoms at the same time. They are, in the end, one.













*Yes I know it's Iago. Shakespeare often let his villains speak truths. And Iago often led Othello on with undeniable general truths.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 09:50:22 PM by Godot showed up »

Offline Chris_

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #84 on: July 21, 2010, 11:29:56 PM »
I do understand that is what is written in the Constitution but I believe that the common person should have the right to own guns.  I would like to think it would not be necessary to be able to own ak47s nor machine guns.  I own guns and would be pissed if someone wanted to take them away.

Why?  Are AK47s scary looking?  Is that why they should be banned?

If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #85 on: July 22, 2010, 09:20:12 AM »
You didn`t answer my question but I will yours.

You provide for an atmosphere of growth where it is a worthy goal to be an entrepreneur rather then one taxed and regulated either out of existence or to a level of return for the output of capital to make a business be so unrewarded as to not make it worth the hassle of doing it.

It isn`t that difficult a thing to grasp and where the left fails is they don`t recognize it does take capital and hard work to build a business,not to mention risk.
They seem to operate from a belief that all things they know exist from a steady state.
Yes there will be well known successful business men and women but there will also be a lot more that weren`t and are never heard of.

You act as if they never existed but they do so why then should those who have succeeded in such ways as providing the computer you post on and the infrastructure needed to allow it be punished by mandate of oppressive taxation that the left yearns for?


Carl, tell me which question I did not answer and I will answer.

I do know most small businesses fail.  I am sorry, but I do not see an answer in your post.  How would you create jobs?? 
It has been shown that small business create the most jobs. 

Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #86 on: July 22, 2010, 09:34:59 AM »
Let us change tracks just slightly.

In your opinion what should the minimum wage be in dollars per hour?

I posted some questions.  If you care to answer mine I will be more than willing to answer yours.

Right now I am one talking to many that hold different views than I do.  Without telling me actually what you would change how do we know how far apart we are?? 


Offline Carl

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #87 on: July 22, 2010, 09:37:47 AM »

Carl, tell me which question I did not answer and I will answer.

I do know most small businesses fail.  I am sorry, but I do not see an answer in your post.  How would you create jobs?? 
It has been shown that small business create the most jobs. 

Mainly how does a demand side philosophy of economics sustain growth?

Offline rich_t

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #88 on: July 22, 2010, 09:43:54 AM »
I posted some questions.  If you care to answer mine I will be more than willing to answer yours.

Right now I am one talking to many that hold different views than I do.  Without telling me actually what you would change how do we know how far apart we are?? 



Your questions have been answered.  If not by me then by somebody who's answer I concur with.  Do you expect each person that posts here to individually respond to your every question?

How about answering mine? 
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas, 1944

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #89 on: July 22, 2010, 09:48:05 AM »
I posted some questions.  If you care to answer mine I will be more than willing to answer yours.

Right now I am one talking to many that hold different views than I do.  Without telling me actually what you would change how do we know how far apart we are??
If I may:

I have made a genuine effort to present my views on guiding fundamentals for economics. For a few pages now you have not responded. I'm not calling that a fault because I understand you're being deluged but I will say that if anyone here will give you a fair discussion I certainly will be the first to try.

We can even discuss mono e lago if you prefer.

We have a refugee from the DUmp and I have not only strived to give her a fair hearing but I have petitioned on her behalf (without her propmpting) to have others extend civility to her. As long as you are civil and do not degenerate to ad hominem attacks and cheap caricatures I will respond in kind. If things become uncivil...

...well...

...bunnies can be real bastards.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #90 on: July 22, 2010, 09:49:55 AM »
Why?  Are AK47s scary looking?  Is that why they should be banned?




I honestly do not think AK47s are scary looking.  There are some very beautiful guns made.  I just do not see the need for everyone to own one.

The First Amendment, Freedom of Speech, allows for people to voice their opinions without fear of reprisal.  The courts have determined that some speech should not be allowed.  The classic being, shouting fire in a crowded area, to protect people from unnecessary fear.  Should we allow some speech and not others.  I would say the same holds true for the Second Amendment.    

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #91 on: July 22, 2010, 09:58:16 AM »

I honestly do not think AK47s are scary looking.  There are some very beautiful guns made.  I just do not see the need for everyone to own one.

The First Amendment, Freedom of Speech, allows for people to voice their opinions without fear of reprisal.  The courts have determined that some speech should not be allowed.  The classic being, shouting fire in a crowded area, to protect people from unnecessary fear.  Should we allow some speech and not others.  I would say the same holds true for the Second Amendment.     
I don't think it's about fear as much as people being crushed in stampedes to escape a building that isn't on fire.

The limits on speech are things that can lead to physical harm, i.e. inciting riots or panic or threats of violence. Slander and libel are other limits because they do cause harm; demonstrated harm being a threshhold for legal action.

Of course people who support the 2nd also tend to support keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. After all, it only follws that the RKBA crowd wants to be able to defend itself from criminals, not have criminals enjoy a fair fight.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Thor

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #92 on: July 22, 2010, 10:06:00 AM »
I do understand that is what is written in the Constitution but I believe that the common person should have the right to own guns.  I would like to think it would not be necessary to be able to own ak47s nor machine guns.  I own guns and would be pissed if someone wanted to take them away.

As far as AK47s, obviously you know little about them. First of all, they are very reliable rifles. The ones that MOST civilians can purchase are little different than your standard hunting rifle. I happen to own an AK47 clone called the SLR-95. It is VERY accurate. As far as "machine guns", legally, one must purchase a tax stamp ($200) and be able to afford one. Most run from $5000 and upwards from there. Thanks to Ronald Reagan, nobody is allowed to own a machine gun made after 1986. (Death of machine guns by obsolescence) An M-16 typically costs a person $15,000.00 !!! Some are even more expensive. IMO, it is contrary to the intent of the 2nd Amendment. As I understand the intent of the 2nd Amendment, it is to overthrow a tyrannical government should the need arise and to protect this country from invasion of other military forces. In today's world, how can a militia of ANY type compete with a Government or country that has sophisticated weapons that far outpower the standard "hunting rifle". The 2nd Amendment is NOT about hunting, get that straight!!!

Quote
I hear and read often of people that invoke god to justify their actions having sex outside of their marriage, having sex with minors, and numerous marriages and other things that go against marriage.

NO Christian or Jewish religion that even condone these actions. In the Old testament, there were "concubines" and they were used because the wife could not conceive or bear children, normally. That has gone away over the millennium. The only religion that I'm aware of that actually condones and/ promotes sex with minors is Islam.


Quote
They often say that god intended for families to exist of one man and one woman and have a great fear of homosexuals destroying the family. I have never heard them give an example of this destruction they often speak of. I hear and read often of people that invoke god to justify their actions having sex outside of their marriage, having sex with minors, and numerous marriages and other things that go against marriage.

Bear in mind that 80% of this nation is comprised of Christians. (It may be a little less, now) A Christian (even Jews and Islam) views Homosexuality as an "abomination". That is, contrary to God's will. You need to understand these religions before you spout out talking points from the hedonistic society members.  Eupher pretty much covered it. An abnormal lifestyle is just that. While I don't condone that way of life and rebuke it as it is an "abomination", what people do in the privacy of their own home is their business. Keep it that way and we'll ALL be happier in the end. (excuse the pun) QUIT trying to convince us that this is a "normal" behavior and QUIT trying to force this absurd belief down our throats!!!

Finally, what good is it going to do to extend unemployment benefits to those whose benefits have expired?? Sure, it will make them maybe be able to keep their homes, MAYBE. It MIGHT keep food on the table. But let's look at the long term cost of this debacle. I had heard on one of the news channels that this would cost the country $33 BILLION!!! America is already in financial trouble and the deficit has tripled since 0baMao has been in office and it's growing daily. In the long run, this will only keep people on the Government dime (OUR MONEY!!) and under Government control. Sometimes, one just has to cut their losses and move on. I consider these actions akin to feeding a raccoon. If one feeds a raccoon once, then it might be ok, if one continues to feed that raccoon, it keeps coming back for more, endlessly. Eventually, that raccoon sets up "home" where it is getting fed, forgetting how to go out and forage and live on its own.
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Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #93 on: July 22, 2010, 10:06:18 AM »
If I may:

I have made a genuine effort to present my views on guiding fundamentals for economics. For a few pages now you have not responded. I'm not calling that a fault because I understand you're being deluged but I will say that if anyone here will give you a fair discussion I certainly will be the first to try.

We can even discuss mono e lago if you prefer.

We have a refugee from the DUmp and I have not only strived to give her a fair hearing but I have petitioned on her behalf (without her propmpting) to have others extend civility to her. As long as you are civil and do not degenerate to ad hominem attacks and cheap caricatures I will respond in kind. If things become uncivil...

...well...

...bunnies can be real bastards.

I personally love bunnies, I have large numbers of them in my yard all the time.  I am deeply touched by the grace of animals, and would add, that in my view they have as much soul as humans.

If I have not answered your questions nor replied, I am sorry, it is not my intent.  You and I have different views and all people process information differently.  I may not have understood what you were saying.  If you could repeat the questions I will try to answer the best I can.

I have no intention of attacking anyone.  This is your home, not mine, so I am a guest here.  

Offline Mike220

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #94 on: July 22, 2010, 10:06:37 AM »
I don't think it's about fear as much as people being crushed in stampedes to escape a building that isn't on fire.

Exactly. Besides, the case where "shouting fire in a theater" was given to us (Schenck v. US) was overturned in the late 1960s (Brandenburg v. Ohio).

From Schenck:
Quote
the most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic.

The standard from 1919 to 1969 was causing a panic, not fear.

Now the standard is that the speech would likely cause "imminent lawless action."  
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Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #95 on: July 22, 2010, 10:35:04 AM »
I don't think it's about fear as much as people being crushed in stampedes to escape a building that isn't on fire.

The limits on speech are things that can lead to physical harm, i.e. inciting riots or panic or threats of violence. Slander and libel are other limits because they do cause harm; demonstrated harm being a threshhold for legal action.

Of course people who support the 2nd also tend to support keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. After all, it only follws that the RKBA crowd wants to be able to defend itself from criminals, not have criminals enjoy a fair fight.


I used fear in the case of dying in a fire or other harm coming to the person.

Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #96 on: July 22, 2010, 10:42:36 AM »
As far as AK47s, obviously you know little about them. First of all, they are very reliable rifles. The ones that MOST civilians can purchase are little different than your standard hunting rifle. I happen to own an AK47 clone called the SLR-95. It is VERY accurate. As far as "machine guns", legally, one must purchase a tax stamp ($200) and be able to afford one. Most run from $5000 and upwards from there. Thanks to Ronald Reagan, nobody is allowed to own a machine gun made after 1986. (Death of machine guns by obsolescence) An M-16 typically costs a person $15,000.00 !!! Some are even more expensive. IMO, it is contrary to the intent of the 2nd Amendment. As I understand the intent of the 2nd Amendment, it is to overthrow a tyrannical government should the need arise and to protect this country from invasion of other military forces. In today's world, how can a militia of ANY type compete with a Government or country that has sophisticated weapons that far outpower the standard "hunting rifle". The 2nd Amendment is NOT about hunting, get that straight!!!

NO Christian or Jewish religion that even condone these actions. In the Old testament, there were "concubines" and they were used because the wife could not conceive or bear children, normally. That has gone away over the millennium. The only religion that I'm aware of that actually condones and/ promotes sex with minors is Islam.


Bear in mind that 80% of this nation is comprised of Christians. (It may be a little less, now) A Christian (even Jews and Islam) views Homosexuality as an "abomination". That is, contrary to God's will. You need to understand these religions before you spout out talking points from the hedonistic society members.  Eupher pretty much covered it. An abnormal lifestyle is just that. While I don't condone that way of life and rebuke it as it is an "abomination", what people do in the privacy of their own home is their business. Keep it that way and we'll ALL be happier in the end. (excuse the pun) QUIT trying to convince us that this is a "normal" behavior and QUIT trying to force this absurd belief down our throats!!!

Finally, what good is it going to do to extend unemployment benefits to those whose benefits have expired?? Sure, it will make them maybe be able to keep their homes, MAYBE. It MIGHT keep food on the table. But let's look at the long term cost of this debacle. I had heard on one of the news channels that this would cost the country $33 BILLION!!! America is already in financial trouble and the deficit has tripled since 0baMao has been in office and it's growing daily. In the long run, this will only keep people on the Government dime (OUR MONEY!!) and under Government control. Sometimes, one just has to cut their losses and move on. I consider these actions akin to feeding a raccoon. If one feeds a raccoon once, then it might be ok, if one continues to feed that raccoon, it keeps coming back for more, endlessly. Eventually, that raccoon sets up "home" where it is getting fed, forgetting how to go out and forage and live on its own.


Thor,
Thank you for the information.  I did not have this before.

As for cramming my post down your throat, I did not post that here, someone else went and grabbed it and brought it here. 

 

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #97 on: July 22, 2010, 10:44:20 AM »

I used fear in the case of dying in a fire or other harm coming to the person.
I understood your point but we don't inhibit people feeling fear, that is unavoidable in life. Stock market reports can induce fear. Nancy Pelosi discussing her economic theories can induce stark-staring panic...but we can't prohibit that. Prohibitions against yelling fire were never about curtailing emotional distress rather they were about preventing actual physical injury.
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Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #98 on: July 22, 2010, 10:45:05 AM »
Mainly how does a demand side philosophy of economics sustain growth?


I do not know.........

Offline Angry Dragon

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Re: I Want My Country Back
« Reply #99 on: July 22, 2010, 10:53:42 AM »
Your questions have been answered.  If not by me then by somebody who's answer I concur with.  Do you expect each person that posts here to individually respond to your every question?

How about answering mine? 


I honestly do not know the answer. 

Some thoughts that I have had:

should it be based on region?
is a minimum wage needed?
what should it be based on?

Not really questions for you but just thoughts.........