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Author Topic: An exercise in futility  (Read 714 times)

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Offline CharlesD

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An exercise in futility
« on: September 28, 2008, 03:02:52 PM »
I wasn't really sure which area to put this in, since it's kind of related to religion, but not entirely, and it can be related to politics in a way.  I've been engaged in something lately that is really pointless, and that is arguing with post modernists.  Now that pretty much includes a large portion of our society these days, but I had no idea how much ingrained post modernism is these days. 

It seems that no matter what you try to argue and how well reasoned your argument is, someone is going to counter with, "That's true for you, but not for me", or "That's just your opinion."  So the other day I brought up the law of non contradiction and the person responded with, "Well, that's YOUR opinion."  So according to that line of thought, two people can make statements that are complete opposites and contradict each other completely, and each person can be right because it's all a matter of opinion.

It strikes me that before you can convince someone that something is true, you actually have to convince that person that there is a such thing as truth, that there are propositions that are intrinsically true regardless of shifting opinions.  You can reason everything as well as can be, but getting around that problem can be extremely frustrating to say the least.  The best response I have been able to come up with was when someone said, "There's no absolute truth!" and I asked if that statement was absolutely true.  I only succeeded in confusing that person, but maybe that was a good start. 

How does this tie in with politics?  I'm not entirely sure, except for the fact that many people on the left are social liberals as well and most social liberals fall into this way of thinking.  They have a post modern way of looking at issues such as abortion and gay rights, but mention something like tax policy and you will hear their positions defended as absolute truth.  How do you even talk to these people?  How do you reason with someone who says your conservative positions on social issues are all just a matter of opinion, but who will counter with an absolute belief in a punitive tax system?  I guess all we can do is try to point out the inconsistencies of the left and hope the average Joe Schmoe is smart enough to see it. 
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"To those who cite the First Amendment as reason for excluding God from more and more of our institutions and everyday life, may I just say: The First Amendment of the Constitution was not written to protect the people of this country from religious values; it was written to protect religious values from government tyranny."
"If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a Nation gone under." - Ronald Reagan

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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: An exercise in futility
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2008, 03:28:07 PM »
You can practice on some of the posters on conservativeunderground, if you'd like.  Several are just as stubbornly "relativistic" as any DUmmy.   :-)
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Offline franksolich

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Re: An exercise in futility
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2008, 03:30:06 PM »
Ah, Charles, sir, it's like trying to argue with a rock.
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apres moi, le deluge

Offline CharlesD

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Re: An exercise in futility
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2008, 03:49:23 PM »
Quote from: franksolich on September 28, 2008, 03:30:06 PM
Ah, Charles, sir, it's like trying to argue with a rock.

Except that the rock knows when to keep its mouth shut when it doesn't have a reasonable rebuttal.
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"To those who cite the First Amendment as reason for excluding God from more and more of our institutions and everyday life, may I just say: The First Amendment of the Constitution was not written to protect the people of this country from religious values; it was written to protect religious values from government tyranny."
"If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a Nation gone under." - Ronald Reagan

http://www.demaristransportation.com

Offline franksolich

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Re: An exercise in futility
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2008, 03:53:32 PM »
I think the mistake you're making here, sir, is assuming that the other side wants the same thing you do.

You want the facts.

The other side just wants to win, with or without the facts.

That was probably the biggest mistake we in Scamdy made three and a half years ago, and we made it early on, thus prolonging the "debate."  We assumed the lying primitives thought as reasonable people think, and that their reactions would be the reactions of reasonable people.

Man, that was a big mistake.

A mistake that has not been made since.
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Offline Uhhuh35

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Re: An exercise in futility
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2008, 05:37:50 PM »
I never try to "win" arguments with anybody anymore, it's bad for my blood pressure. Rather nowadays I just try to make my points and "plant a seed" in the minds of the other person and whomever may be listening.
Or reading.  :-)
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Offline Willow

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Re: An exercise in futility
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2008, 05:47:35 PM »
you know you have won when the sniveling whiney little snots ask you to "play nice and quit being so mean"   :rotf:
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