DU Re-distribution Blues

[zeitgeist]

Let the wailing and lamentations begin

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10026521492

mfcorey1 (5,501 posts)


Some pensioners stand to lose $413 a month in Social Security
 
Some U.S. workers who have paid into the Social Security system are in for a rude awakening when the checks start coming: Their benefits could be chopped by up to $413 per month without warning.

That is the maximum potential cut for 2015 stemming from the Windfall Elimination Provision, a little-understood rule that was signed into law in 1983 to prevent double-dipping from Social Security and public-sector pensions. A sister rule called the Government Pension Offset can result in even sharper cuts to spousal and survivor benefits.

WEP affected about 1.5 million Social Security beneficiaries in 2012, and another 568,000 were hit by the GPO, according to the U.S. Social Security Administration (SSA). Most of those affected are teachers and employees of state and local government.

These two safeguards often come as big news to retirees because the SSA gives them no advance warning, and until 2005, no law required that affected employees be informed by their employers. Even now, the law only requires employers to inform new workers of the possible impact on Social Security benefits earned in other jobs.

Many retirees perceive the two rules as grossly unfair. Opponents have been pushing for repeal, so far to no effect.

WHY WEP?

To understand the issue, you need to understand how Social Security benefits are distributed across the wealth spectrum of wage-earners.

The program uses a progressive formula that aims to return the highest amount to the lowest-earning workers - the same idea that drives our system of income tax brackets.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/personalfinance/some-pensioners-stand-to-lose-dollar413-a-month-in-social-security/ar-AAb6NtC?ocid=mailsignout

Well shiver me timbers mate look at this brave (more fool hearty) post. 

former9thward (14,231 posts)

25. It was a Democratic congress that passed the bill.
 
How is it that we blame a Republican congress with Obama but with Reagan he was all powerful with a Democratic congress?

Note that this is not a typical response to this thread.  Liebrawls are always willing to give you the shirt of someone else's back but don't mess with what is theirs. 

[landofconfusion80]

If these people had treated SS as it was supposed to be -supplemental- then this wouldn't be a very big deal. 

[dixierose]

Speaking of SS, I just received my statement which tells what I am "estimated" to receive when I turn 65 or 70. Funny thing is, if I get disabled and receive Disability today....THOSE payments would be over $100 MORE per month than I would receive if I wait until 70 to take SS. How F**ked up is that??

[thundley4]

Speaking of SS, I just received my statement which tells what I am "estimated" to receive when I turn 65 or 70. Funny thing is, if I get disabled and receive Disability today....THOSE payments would be over $100 MORE per month than I would receive if I wait until 70 to take SS. How F**ked up is that??

DU has all the info you need to file a phony disability claim should you desire to do so.   

[JohnnyReb]

DU has all the info you need to file a phony disability claim should you desire to do so.   

Get drunk twice and smoke a joint and you're on the gravy train.

[zeitgeist]

Star Member Omaha Steve (49,363 posts)

19. As a retired public employee I had to read this
 
I paid in to SS as well as a pension, so it doesn't hit me. I do feel for those that are getting smacked by this.

OS 

You may want to double check that big guy.  It will be a little late when you are worm food and Marta is on the street corner. 

Response to mfcorey1 (Original post)

Fri Apr 17, 2015, 11:02 AM

yellowcanine (26,663 posts)

20. This has been around a long time to prevent "double dipping." Nothing unfair about it.
 
Social Security payments are skewed toward lower income workers. So if someone works fewer SS years than most people because the other years were covered by a public pension and they were not paying into SS, their average pay for Social Security will be low but in fact they are not a low income worker. Therefore they will collect more SS than what they are entitled to.

It should also not be a surprise for anyone retiring with a public sector pension. There is information on this all over the place. But one has to in fact read it.

and understand what they are reading.

[AllosaursRus]

Speaking of SS, I just received my statement which tells what I am "estimated" to receive when I turn 65 or 70. Funny thing is, if I get disabled and receive Disability today....THOSE payments would be over $100 MORE per month than I would receive if I wait until 70 to take SS. How F**ked up is that??

I'm on disability now at 61. I make damn near $200 more. The system makes no sense. It's a good thing! According to my doc, I prolly won't live in order to collect the money I paid into SS. At least this way, I'm gettin' some of my money back.

One Who Grows (244 posts)
20. absolute bullshit. the cave is unspeakably vile.

I don't know how any of you can live with yourselves.

Heh, heh! I luv this!

ESAD, Dumbasses! It's the pits when sane people call you out on your complete ignorance, ain't it?!!!

[Gina]

Where did that come from? ^

[AllosaursRus]

Where did that come from? ^

It's in " landofconfusion80" sig line. I figure he musta found it.

[98ZJUSMC]

because the other years were covered by a public pension and they were not paying into SS,

Just one of the thousands of things the (D)Umbshits don't comprehend, or simply choose not to, because narrative.  A good example is Federal Civil Service Technicians.  They don't pay into SS and don't receive any.  ARNG GS/WG techs, anyways.  This is all known at the start of employment.  They still double dip by drawing a military retirement, on top of their civil service retirement. 

[landofconfusion80]

Where did that come from? ^

It was a quote from when a faceless primitive crossed the rainbow.  They got all upset when we were talking about it.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Just one of the thousands of things the (D)Umbshits don't comprehend, or simply choose not to, because narrative.  A good example is Federal Civil Service Technicians.  They don't pay into SS and don't receive any.  ARNG GS/WG techs, anyways.  This is all known at the start of employment.  They still double dip by drawing a military retirement, on top of their civil service retirement.

I don't know where you're getting that from.  The provision the DUmmies are talking about applies to public pensions that are SS-exempt.  Military pay has been subject to SS since something like 1956, and all the Federal civil service pensions from the mid-80s onward use a system called FERS, under which they are subject to full SS withholding and the SS payments are integrated into the pension scheme to pay a greatly reduced CS retirement amount compared to the old system; it isn't 'Double dipping,' it's an integrated total payment with two components.

There are folks left who began under the old system, known as CSRS, which was SS exempt, when FERS came in they were allowed to either keep the grandfathered system or switch.  Time marches on, and fewer and fewer of these grandfathered CSRS folks remain in the work force each year.  A smaller and smaller number of these grandfathered CS workers remain in civil service, after FERS began, all new hires entered since then entered under FERS.

[obumazombie]

Who is going to be hurt with this policy, and who will be hurt the worst ?

[zeitgeist]

I don't know where you're getting that from.  The provision the DUmmies are talking about applies to public pensions that are SS-exempt.  Military pay has been subject to SS since something like 1956, and all the Federal civil service pensions from the mid-80s onward use a system called FERS, under which they are subject to full SS withholding and the SS payments are integrated into the pension scheme to pay a greatly reduced CS retirement amount compared to the old system; it isn't 'Double dipping,' it's an integrated total payment with two components.

There are folks left who began under the old system, known as CSRS, which was SS exempt, when FERS came in they were allowed to either keep the grandfathered system or switch.  Time marches on, and fewer and fewer of these grandfathered CSRS folks remain in the work force each year.  A smaller and smaller number of these grandfathered CS workers After FERS began, all new hires entered under it.

I am a CSRS recipient who is also eligible for SS and concur with what you have said above; however, what has the DUmmies verklempt in MHO is the fact that "TEACHERS" (in at least 14 states if I read it right) are also finding out that they cannot 'double dip' without an offset.  As Gomer Pyle says SURPRISE, SURPISE, SURPRISE!!   Social Security sends the nice statement showing what you will get but it does not take into account the offset for those states that run a non exempt pension system.  Thus those who 'assume' they will get the full amount are SHOCKED when the amount is reduced.  I am related to a teacher (MA) who thought that they would get the full amount because they 'worked a SS job every summer', um, no, sorry cupcake, you don't get the full amount as though you are a low income worker.   

[AllosaursRus]

I don't know where you're getting that from.  The provision the DUmmies are talking about applies to public pensions that are SS-exempt.  Military pay has been subject to SS since something like 1956, and all the Federal civil service pensions from the mid-80s onward use a system called FERS, under which they are subject to full SS withholding and the SS payments are integrated into the pension scheme to pay a greatly reduced CS retirement amount compared to the old system; it isn't 'Double dipping,' it's an integrated total payment with two components.

There are folks left who began under the old system, known as CSRS, which was SS exempt, when FERS came in they were allowed to either keep the grandfathered system or switch.  Time marches on, and fewer and fewer of these grandfathered CSRS folks remain in the work force each year.  A smaller and smaller number of these grandfathered CS workers remain in civil service, after FERS began, all new hires entered since then entered under FERS.

I'm a firm believer that every single dime you can recover from the leviathan known as the US Government, go to it! I'll never recover 1/10 of what they have stolen from me over 45 years!

[Big Dog]

I'm a firm believer that every single dime you can recover from the leviathan known as the US Government, go to it! I'll never recover 1/10 of what they have stolen from me over 45 years!

AllosaursRus and Ragnar Danneskold. Two pirates after my own heart!