Tobin is doing a little research...

[dutch508]

Cronic Pot Smoker Tobin is doing some research...

Tobin S. (7,100 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026038108

I've been doing a little research on North Korea.
That research consisted of viewing three films- Crossing the Line, A State of Mind, and a PBS Frontline program on the country.

Crossing the Line was mainly about an American named James Dresnok who defected to North Korea in 1962. He was serving in the U.S. Army at the time on the border dividing the North and the South. He had lived a hard life where he was rejected by his family and because of insubordination would soon be rejected by his country. I suppose he felt like he had nothing to lose. The creators of the documentary were granted access to Dresnok as he lives currently in North Korea for interviews.

A State of Mind is about North Korean culture and is centered around its Mass Games which are held a few times a year. The Mass Games are highly choreographed gymnastic portrayals designed to highlight individual sacrifice for the welfare of the group. It's not a competition. The Games involve up to 90,000 gymnasts and are viewed live by over one million people in North Korea. They are thought to be the largest choreographed performances in the world. The creators of the documentary were given access to film freely in the country and follow two adolescent girls as they trained for the Mass Games.

The Frontline program was about smugglers getting covert film footage out of North Korea and also smuggling films and music of South Korean pop culture into the North via DVDs and thumb drives. Frontline wasn't as kind to North Korea as the creators of the other two films, but they gave me another important angle from which to critically think about the country.

I have come away from the three viewings thinking of North Korea as the world's largest commune complete with a charismatic leader who is viewed as having almost mythical power by the population. I have also come away from the films with a new found empathy for the people of North Korea. I very much recommend watching all three films. The film about Dresnok will really leave you thinking. However, it is important to note that both Crossing the Line and A State of Mind were filmed mainly in Pyongyang where it is considered a privilege to live and where the people have it considerably better than in smaller North Korean cities and the rural communities. I think the Frontline program will give you the proper balance in that regard.

As we all know, the U.S. foreign policy of all administrations has been violently opposed to communism for a long time. We are talking about to the point of nearly destroying the planet over ideology. Our country has been taking measures to try to destroy that ideology in North Korea since the late 1940s. It's probably not going to happen anytime soon. That government is so entrenched in the minds of its people and the hatred for America there is so great that it will not be undone through sanctions, an embargo, or even violence.

So here is a radical idea. I am not really known for radical ideas on DU. Indeed, I post so infrequently in the political forums that most of you probably do not know where I stand on politics at all. But here is my idea: Our government should show a little more tolerance for North Korea. If we ever expect to get them to stop development of their nuclear program, we're going to have to stop treating the country like a pariah. We are going to have to engage them diplomatically and make concessions. Communism in North Korea isn't going anywhere outside of its borders. I think we need to abandon the old Cold War strategies of eradicating the world of communism. Ironically, if we give a little in regard to North Korea, we may actually instigate change from within.

 

 

Tobin S. (7,100 posts)
4. That would be fine, in my view, if it gets them to stop developing nuclear weapons. We leave them alone. They stop trying to make the big bomb. Everybody wins.

This is why leftists shouldn't be in charge of anything.

CaliforniaPeggy (112,870 posts)
5. I think your ideas are very worth-while and worth pursuing, my dear Tobin.

K&R

 

 

davidpdx (17,075 posts)
7. I feel exactly the opposite

I have lived in South Korea for 11 years (currently I live about 26 km from the border) and learned quite a bit about North Korea including issues with refugees. My father-in-law is from North Korea and fought on the side of South Korea. Their leader chooses to use fear and hunger to control them. While there is no estimate on how many of NK's 24 million people are in gulags, there has been ample proof through satellite footage that some of the gulags have been expanded since Kim Jong Un took over.

North Korea is not comparable to the other situations you are alluding to. China has been propping up North Korea for many years though trade and assistance. The best thing that could happen is a complete collapse of the regime including Kim Jong Un's death followed by a slow reunification of the two Koreas.

I'll give you a list of books if you really want to start reading about North Korea:

The Aquariums of Pyongyang by Kang Chol-hwan
Nothing to Envy by Barbara Demick
Escape from Camp 14 by Blaine Harden
The Cleanest Race by BR Myers
White Paper on Human Rights in North Korea 2014

(Of the above books I have read the first two and have copies of the second two in my cue for when I finish my dissertation. I have read one of the older white papers, but not the newest ones. While the white papers are a bit dry, they give an indication of the extent of what is going on in the country).

I also urge you to visit:
Rescue North Korea (US based organization that assists refugees)


BTW I have posted links on North Korea many times on DU and the threads sink like the Titanic. It is an issue very few people care about or are knowledgeable about, especially in the United States.

 

There is no way that someone who is really there and has seen reality will ever make a dent into what the DUmp "FEEEEEEEEEEEEELS" to be the trith...

Tobin S. (7,100 posts)
13. So I guess we should just nuke them.

How do you think we should handle the problem?

Dreamer Tatum (9,438 posts)
17. I think your OP is naive in the absolute extreme. N. Korea is going to do what it's going to do. Period.

 

JI7 (49,869 posts)
19. North Korea is NOT communist, they are more similar to Imperial Japan

 

CJCRANE (16,745 posts)
30. The problem is that in the post-Bush era

western intervention just seems to make everything much worse.

We were able to rebuild countries after WWIi but incapable of doing that in the neocon era.

I wonder why? Could it be you leftists keep ****ing the shit up?

daleo (20,659 posts)
33. In a way, capitalism is also a totalitarian state of mind
By that, I mean it is a system of thought that claims to have all the answers. That is why we hear phrases like "there is no alternative", especially when matters like globalization, tax rates, inequality, and the like are brought up. Toatalizing ideologies do not want any form of alternative to exist, regardless of how weak or irrelevant they are. Thus, our capitalist class is obsessed by states like North Korea. It's very existence is an affront to them.

[Chris_]

Escape from Camp 14 by Blaine Harden
White Paper on Human Rights in North Korea 2014

The 2014 white paper quoted from 'Escape from Camp 14' as some of the worst human rights abuses conducted by the Norks.  DUmmy TobinS needs to read both of those and not some slanted PBS program penned by Bill Moyers if he wants an idea of what's actually going on.

[wasp69]

DUmmy TobinS needs to read both of those and not some slanted PBS program penned by Bill Moyers if he wants an idea of what's actually going on.

Actually, his "research" needs to be a fully immersed, first hand experience.

[miskie]

As I always say to DUmbasses pushing the 'goodness' of intolerant/Communist/Socialist regimes - Go to Google Maps. check out North Korea on satellite view, and think about what you see.

Better yet, -Start off in Soeul, South Korea - You'll see a major city, bustling with life - cars everywhere.. People doing what they need to do. Then make your way to Pyongyang, North Korea.. You'll also see a major city - that looks abandoned. 

And there are these famous satellite photos..

So, yeah. Such a great place, North Korea is. They are just 'misunderstood'....   

[Carl]

North Korea does not want nuclear capacity for defensive reasons,there is no threat against it save for potentially the Chicoms.
It wants to become a world blackmailer since its country is in the state of devastation communism brings.

The fact that the cretins at the DUmp either refuse to believe that or simply just can`t tells one all they need to know about the mutts.

[SVPete]

Two Hollyweird and one PBS crockumentaries is "research"?!!! Did anyone with minimal respect for the word call him on that bit of fatuousness? Like w69 said, he needs to do some Birkenstocks-on-the-ground in-person research.

Maybe that guy who is doing graduate work in SoKo needs to reflect on the non-response to his posts with facts about NoKo. If calling the DU-folk uninterested in factual info about NoKo is correct the disinterest is rooted in the reality that they don't want to hear facts that reveal the murderous horrors their beloved socialism cause whenever fully tried.

[I_B_Perky]

CJCRANE (16,745 posts)
30. The problem is that in the post-Bush era

western intervention just seems to make everything much worse.

We were able to rebuild countries after WWIi but incapable of doing that in the neocon era.

Maybe it is because you stupid anti American pukes on the left won't let our military do its job to completely devastate and demoralize the enemy.  Once they are completely defeated and demoralized, then you can rebuild.

[Newsweek]

I am so impressed.  Scholar Tobin diligently pursuing a Masters in Popcorn Arts in the Netflicks Library!  Way to go Tobi.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Whatever the 'Stupidity' equivalent of a Mach number is, Tobin just shattered all existing records by at least three full numbers.

[BlueStateSaint]

Whatever the 'Stupidity' equivalent of a Mach number is, Tobin just shattered all existing records by at least three full numbers.

There is this frame of reference . . .

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI4tevra8Lg[/youtube]

[Big Dog]

One of my DU moles has been doing a little research on the American expansion from 1865-1900.

That research consists of watching season one of Wagon Train, Dances with Wolves, and Blazing Saddles.

Ask my mole anything.

[GOBUCKS]

Two examples of DUmp democrat judgment:

Sat Jan 3, 2015, 11:03 PM
Star Member CaliforniaPeggy (112,887 posts)
5. I think your ideas are very worth-while and worth pursuing, my dear Tobin.

Wed Aug 21, 2013, 09:16 PM
Star Member CaliforniaPeggy (112,887 posts)
1. That was an excellent move, my dear DainBramaged!