Author Topic: A friend of mine posted this on FB  (Read 7915 times)

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Offline Mary Ann

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A friend of mine posted this on FB
« on: August 21, 2019, 09:46:45 AM »
Anyone else see it yet? There is so much I would like to comment on, but it is my policy not to get into political arguments with old friends on FB. But, this is what I would like to tell her.
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I am a liberal, but that doesn't mean what a lot of people think it does. Let's break it down, shall we? Because frankly, I'm getting tired of being told what I believe and what I stand for. Spoiler alert: Not every liberal is the same, though the majority of liberals I know think along roughly these same lines:
You think you have it bad, you should try being a conservative. You will be called a white supremacist for your beliefs.
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1. I believe a country should take care of its weakest members. A country cannot call itself civilized when its children, disabled, sick, and elderly are neglected.
Children are the responsibility of their parents, not the country as a whole. And no one I know wants to see the disabled, sick, and elderly thrown out into the street to die.
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2. I believe we should all have access to healthcare. Somehow that's been interpreted as "I believe Obamacare is the end-all, be-all." This is not the case. I'm fully aware that the ACA has problems, that a national healthcare system would require everyone to chip in, and that it's impossible to create one that is devoid of flaws, but I have yet to hear an argument against it that makes "let people die because they can't afford healthcare" a better alternative. I believe healthcare should be far cheaper than it is, and that everyone should have access to it. And no, I'm not opposed to paying higher taxes in the name of making that happen. It also makes economic sense to me that having decent healthcare is cheaper than ER care.
"let people die because they can't afford healthcare" Wow! Talk about ASS-umptions. I don't know anyone who believes that.

Healthcare WAS cheaper, before Snarky McDouchebag and the Dems got their mitts on it. My son graduated from college into the terrible Obama economy, and we paid for a no-frills plan for him--it was designed for healthy, young adults, and would pay his bills if something terrible happened. It was $100/month, and we were glad to pay it. Ol' Snarky took that away and replaced it with something that was 3X the cost, but would cover him if he got pregnant.

There are lots of reasons to oppose socialized medicine--like wait times, limited services, and having some bureaucrat making decisions about what care you should have.

As for having EVERYONE "chip in . . ." Yeah, right. The same people who pay no taxes now aren't going to be chipping in anything.
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3. I believe education should be affordable and accessible to everyone. It doesn't necessarily have to be free, but there is no excuse for students graduating from college saddled with five- or six-figure debt.
If you want to see college costs plummet, take government $$$ out of it. And, I feel absolutely no sympathy for the idiots who go into debt to major in stupid stuff, like Womyn's Studies.
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4. I don't believe your money should be taken from you and given to people who don't want to work. I have literally never encountered anyone who believes this. Ever. I just have a massive moral problem with a society where a handful of people can possess the majority of the wealth while there are people literally starving to death, freezing to death, or dying because they can't afford to go to the doctor. Fair wages, lower housing costs, universal healthcare, affordable education, and the wealthy actually paying their share would go a long way toward alleviating this. Having these beliefs does not make me a communist.
The wealthy pay the vast, VAST majority of taxes now. Tell the truth: You want to punish the successful just for being successful.
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5. I don't throw around "I'm willing to pay higher taxes" lightly. If I'm suggesting something that involves paying more, well, it's because I'm fine with paying my fair share as long as it's actually going to something besides corporate welfare or bombing other countries while Americans die without healthcare.
Nearly half of all Americans pay no income taxes. If your liberal dreams come to fruition, you will be paying much more than you think is your "fair share."
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6. I believe companies should be required to pay their employees a decent, livable wage. Somehow this is always interpreted as me wanting burger flippers to be able to afford a penthouse apartment and a Mercedes. What it actually means is that no one should have to work three full-time jobs just to keep their heads above water. Restaurant servers should not have to rely on tips, multibillion-dollar companies should not have employees on food stamps, workers shouldn't have to work themselves into the ground just to barely make ends meet, and minimum wage should be enough for someone to work 40 hours and live.
And I think small business owners should be able to stay in business, and not have to shut their doors because some teenager "needs" $15/hour. Maybe wages should be based on the skill required, the qualifications of the employee, and the ability of the employer to pay.

I am the treasurer for a non-profit, no-kill animal shelter. We have a handful of employees, and the constant increases in the minimum wage have put a real strain on our budget. If it goes to $15, I don't know what we will do. But, the Dems make no exceptions for non-profits, or small businesses.
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7. I am not anti-Christian. I have no desire to stop Christians from being Christians, to close churches, to ban the Bible, to forbid prayer.
Nope. Just change Christianity to reflect your own values.
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8. I don't believe LGBT people should have more rights than you. I do believe they should have the same rights as you. I believe that love is love, and that you do not get to decide who I should love, or who my brother loves.
I notice how you conveniently skip over the parts where young girls are expected to undress and shower in the presence of bio males. Or where female athletes have to compete for medals and scholarships with bio males, who would probably be mediocre at best if they had to compete against other guys.

I also don't think small businesses should be targeted with lawsuits for living by their beliefs.
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9. I don't believe illegal immigrants should come to America and have the world at their feet, especially since THIS ISN'T WHAT THEY DO (spoiler: undocumented immigrants are ineligible for all those programs they're supposed to be abusing, and if they're "stealing" your job it's because your employer is hiring illegally). I'm not opposed to deporting people who are here illegally, but I believe there are far more humane ways to handle undocumented immigration than our current practices (i.e., detaining children, splitting up families, ending DACA, etc). The system should not be outsourced to profiteers! Private for-profit jails should be eliminated.
Did you have a problem with the Obama Administration putting kids in cages? Hm?
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10. I don't believe the government should regulate everything, but since greed is such a driving force in our country, we NEED regulations to prevent cut corners, environmental destruction, tainted food/water, unsafe materials in consumable goods or medical equipment, safe flights, etc. It's not that I want the government's hands in everything -- I just don't trust people trying to make money will ensure their products/practices/etc. are actually SAFE. Is the government devoid of shadiness? Of course not. Certainly not right now. But with those regulations in place, consumers have recourse if they're harmed and companies are liable for medical bills, environmental cleanup, etc. Just kind of seems like common sense when the alternative to government regulation is letting companies bring their bottom line into the equation.
And stupid, redundant rules have crippled businesses.
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11. I believe our current administration is fascist! Not because I dislike them or because I can’t get over an election, but because I've spent too many years reading and learning about the Third Reich to miss the similarities. Not because any administration I dislike must be Nazis, but because things are actually mirroring authoritarian and fascist regimes of the past.
I really feared for the future of this country when Obama said he didn't care about the results of the 2010 and 2014 elections because he had "a pen and a phone." Wasn't that kind of Nazi-ish????
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12. I believe the systemic racism and misogyny in our society is much worse than many people think, and desperately needs to be addressed. Which means those with privilege -- white, straight, male, economic, etc. -- need to start listening, even if you don't like what you're hearing, so we can start dismantling everything that's causing people to be marginalized.
Discrimination in hiring, college admissions, housing, etc. have been illegal for decades. By this time, if someone can't succeed because of his/her skin color or gender, there isn't much the rest of us can do about it.
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13. I am not interested in coming after your blessed guns, nor is anyone serving in government. What I am interested in is sensible policies, including background checks, that just MIGHT save one person’s, perhaps a toddler’s, life by the hand of someone who should not have a gun.
If you think someone there aren't people who would come for the guns, then you've never read DU.
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14. I believe in so-called political correctness. I prefer to think it’s social politeness. If I call you Chuck and you say you prefer to be called Charles I’ll call you Charles. It’s the polite thing to do. Not because everyone is a delicate snowflake, but because as Maya Angelou put it, when we know better, we do better. When someone tells you that a term or phrase is more accurate/less hurtful than the one you're using, you now know better. So why not do better? How does it hurt you to NOT hurt another person?
Political Correctness is about so much more than what people are called. It's about "trigger warnings," and "safe spaces," and stifling opinions that might differ from those of the Snowflakes.
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15. I believe in funding sustainable energy, including offering education to people currently working in coal or oil so they can change jobs. There are too many sustainable options available for us to continue with coal and oil. Sorry, billionaires. Maybe try investing in something with a better profit potential in the future.

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16. I believe that women should not be treated as a separate class of human. They should be paid the same as men who do the same work, should have the same rights as men and should be free from abuse. Why on earth shouldn’t they be?
Women are paid the same as men. That has been the law for ages. The statistics the left loves to quote don't take into account that women CHOOSE to take time out of their careers to care for children, or to work part-time. What rights do men have that women don't? And who do you think is in favor of abusing women?????
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I think that about covers it. Bottom line is that I'm a liberal because I think we should take care of each other. That doesn't mean you should work 80 hours a week so your lazy neighbor can get all your money. It just means I don't believe there is any scenario in which preventable suffering is an acceptable outcome as long as money is saved.
So, I'm a liberal.

Offline Texacon

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Re: A friend of mine posted this on FB
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2019, 11:03:59 AM »
You should, at the very least, point out the inconsistency of points #11 and #14.

I'm quite sure the Trump administrations (and those of us who support it) don't appreciate being called fascist or Nazi, yet there it is, right there in point #11.  Point #14 says she shouldn't be doing that.

KC
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Offline Mary Ann

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Re: A friend of mine posted this on FB
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2019, 12:40:02 PM »
You should, at the very least, point out the inconsistency of points #11 and #14.

I'm quite sure the Trump administrations (and those of us who support it) don't appreciate being called fascist or Nazi, yet there it is, right there in point #11.  Point #14 says she shouldn't be doing that.

KC
Good point! The hypocrisy is amazing.

Offline BadCat

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Re: A friend of mine posted this on FB
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2019, 12:59:19 PM »
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What I am interested in is sensible policies, including background checks, that just MIGHT save one person’s, perhaps a toddler’s, life by the hand of someone who should not have a gun.

If building the wall would keep just ONE illegal out of the country who later kills an American, isn't it WORTH IT?
Help keep America beautiful...deface a liberal.

The Democrat and Republican parties are simply the left and right wings of the same bird of prey.

The road to freedom is paved with dead liberals.

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Offline FlaGator

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Re: A friend of mine posted this on FB
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2019, 03:51:20 PM »
After reading that I realize that there has never been a civilized society in the history of the world.
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: A friend of mine posted this on FB
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2019, 05:00:03 PM »
I gotten to the point with liberals that I just tell them the type of country they would like the USA to become is one which would deserve to disappear into the dust-bin of history. That's usually enough to both make my point and end the conversation.

.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: A friend of mine posted this on FB
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2019, 05:05:26 PM »
Mary Ann, I wonder if your friend is even halfway educated about the origin of fascism, who brought it about, and the political spectrum it came from.

I also wonder if your friend is even cognizant of the communist panic that occurred in the early 20th century that gave birth to fascism. The revolution that Marx intimated occurring from the success of capitalism in England and Germany never occurred -- thereby giving Mussolini recourse to restructure communism from political spectra to that of nationalism.

In other words, communism gave birth to fascism -- just with a twist.

The left is singularly responsible for fascism and the left's painting of fascism as being from the right is a lie -- which they're very good at.

Jonah Goldberg and Dinesh D'Souza do pretty well at describing all of this.
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Offline Mary Ann

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Re: A friend of mine posted this on FB
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2019, 06:02:06 PM »
Mary Ann, I wonder if your friend is even halfway educated about the origin of fascism, who brought it about, and the political spectrum it came from.

I also wonder if your friend is even cognizant of the communist panic that occurred in the early 20th century that gave birth to fascism. The revolution that Marx intimated occurring from the success of capitalism in England and Germany never occurred -- thereby giving Mussolini recourse to restructure communism from political spectra to that of nationalism.

In other words, communism gave birth to fascism -- just with a twist.

The left is singularly responsible for fascism and the left's painting of fascism as being from the right is a lie -- which they're very good at.

Jonah Goldberg and Dinesh D'Souza do pretty well at describing all of this.
She should know. She had the same history/civics teachers I had. Funny how the same influences could produce such different results.


Offline Texacon

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Re: A friend of mine posted this on FB
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2019, 07:06:31 AM »
She should know. She had the same history/civics teachers I had. Funny how the same influences could produce such different results.


To me it all comes down to who you trust.  The leftists, while claiming complete distrust from the government, tend to rely heavily on that same government to take care of them and anyone they deem worthy of their causes.  They have no problem using the heavy hand of government to get you to help them pay for said worthy causes.

The right tends to distrust government completely.  We don't want them to take care of us.  We prefer to put our trust in our fellow man ... some of which work for large evil corporations who are simply trying to comply with the heavy hand of government and STILL make a profit.  WE don't believe the word profit is a four letter word.  We like to give our money to who we deem worthy, but we don't want to be forced at the barrel of a gun.

That's just my opinion though.

KC
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Offline Taylor

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Re: A friend of mine posted this on FB
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2019, 10:27:15 AM »
Good point! The hypocrisy is amazing.

Very good responses.   But...

it's not merely leftist hypocrisy any more.  Used to be... but nowadays, the radical left has taken their hypocrisy to a whole new Twilight Zone-ish level.   They rail against Trump's rhetoric on Twitter, even while exhibiting deafening silence when icons on their side (like leftist media icons, Hollywood icons and Congress critters like Tlaib) display vicious, violent and seditious rhetoric and behavior.   Their double standard is, per usual, the only standards they ever have when it comes to what is "acceptable" rhetoric and behavior.