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Offline franksolich

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primitive left job on bad terms
« on: March 10, 2012, 04:17:46 PM »
http://www.democraticunderground.com/111988

Oh my.

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Nikia (10,946 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

What to say at an interview when you left on bad terms?

I have been looking for a job for the past 2 months. I have had multiple interviews but have had no offers. I think that a big part of my lack of success is that I don't have a good response to the question of why I left my previous job.

I resigned but I didn't have much of a choice. Not to go into too much detail, there were many changes going on in the company, a new boss, and demands that I felt were impossible being placed on me. I went from being a stellar employee to being a bad employee and couldn't seem to do anything about it or get any help on what I should be specifically doing differently. Anything that I can say that would be remotely true either sounds really bad on my end or sounds like I'd be trashing my former employer.

The answer that I've given so far about there being a lot of changes and stress seems to be the best that I've said so far but it still makes me sound like I can't accept change or stress, which has probably prevented me from getting the jobs.

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Scuba (15,236 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

1. Yeah, I'd drop any reference to stress issues and focus on the turmoil...

... at your previous employer. "Impossible demands" might be re-stated as "demands that I compromise my personal ethics" or "demands that were not tolerable from a family perspective".

Good luck. Remember, 80% of success is just showing up.

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rbnyc (16,182 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

2. Even though...

...you say you didn't have much of a choice, I would make it about choice. It's a tough situation to be in. I think if it were me, I would make it about my desire for the right fit - to put myself in the right situation and make myself available for the best opportunities.

Maybe I would say something like, "It was my choice to leave the organization. Although it was a risk, there had been a cultural shift within the organization and I felt it was my opportunity to find a better relationship, so to speak. I had to make a choice about my role in the changes that were going on. I didn't feel completely bought in. I think it's very important to be committed to the direction of an organization. It was time to look for a better fit."

If pressed for specifics on "cultural changes" I would try to keep it vague. "There are many ways to run a business and people can disagree without either of them being wrong. It's just a question of perspective and style. I want to avoid being overly critical of my former employers. I still feel a sense of gratitude for my experiences there."

Stay away from anything that seems like there was game-playing or power politics. Don't play the victim.

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dmallind (8,903 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

5. I would add a couple of points

1) Keep complaints vague and impersonal without complaining about workload - I found phrases like "inconsistent and ill-defined priorities for my role and the whole department/company" and "absence of any real metrics that defined and incentivized high performance" to be useful. That way they know you were interested in priorities and high performance, and you are blaming the whole systems and processes of the company not "the boss" when you are talking to a person who will hopefully become "the boss", and will probably think they have a better system of metrics and planning.

2) If you are likely to get a poor reference, set this up upfront with again impersonal statements like "the company's way of managing uncertainty and change were not conducive to employee success. Communication was poor and erratic (every employee survey at nigh every company says this) and change, instead of being collaborative and positive as in well-managed companies (never badmouth change itself - nobody wants an inflexible worker), was thrown at the wall in the hope it would stick with no real input from or guidance for those affected. It became a very uncomfortable and unproductive environment filled with conflict".

Need to use your own way of speaking of course, not mine!

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blue ivy schlotsky (18 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

7. I guess this is why I have been unemployed for over four years!

I am repulsed and appalled by what we are expected to go through to have the "honor" of being able to earn a paycheck

I had a very similar situation: boss left (she was a trip), co-worker became manager, was a total czar (told me that if I ever got sick I needed to let her know in advance ), and I just couldn't handle her lunacy.

So I have to learn how to phrase it so that I (!) don't look bad?!

This whole bunch of crap about what to say during interviews is phony bee ess to me. It's more of a game of gotcha questions than a real opportunity to discover a potential employee's personality to see if it meshes with the company, IMO.

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Nikia (10,946 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

9. It as if they don't understand that some supervisors and/or companies have serious problems

What if potential employees always asked why they had an opening? If the answer was not that the business was expanding or that the previous person got promoted, than the candidate would turn down the job.
I have actually asked the question about what happened to the previous employee when I was interviewing (although not so much this time). Over 75%, the answer was not the favorable one.

Since it is an employer's market right now, I guess that I understand why if they have several good candidates that they might exclude the one(s) that are not still employed and looking for a better position. One of the jobs where I interviewed, though, has been advertising their position for almost 2 months. As far as I could tell, I was qualified. I am thinking that my answer was why I was not hired. Still, it seems that they rather not fill the position for 2 months than take a chance on me who was not leaving my previous company for ideal reasons.

Good luck to you. I wonder how a company would feel if they were unable to hire anyone for 4 years because they did not have the perfect answer to why a previous employee left.

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Nikia (10,946 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

8. Update: I got a job

While it involves a small pay cut, a longer commute, and different hours, I think that the position has potential. It is in different but related industry. I think that, in the long run, it is probably good for my career. I am hoping that if I eventually leave this company that my small resume gap won't be a big deal.

Thank you for the advice.

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dmallind (8,903 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

10. Excellent and well done. How DID you handle those questions if I may ask?

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fladem2006 (17 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

11. Okay, help me with this problem.

I began as a server at a restaurant in a hotel in 2007. The then manager was fired, the assistant manager became manager and she promoted me to hostess which is the assistant manager position. I worked my but off through thick and thin especially the last quarter of last year - 2011 when my boss became very ill. She went into the hospital on Christmas Eve. She had broken her hip. She called and resigned over the phone.

I didn't want the job as manager so they brought in someone else. The new manager lasted 2 weeks - it just wasn't her cup of tea. Managed the restaurant for another 2 weeks including a major function for the Chamber of Commerce - 250 guests.

Another new manager hired, and the GM of the hotel says for all of my extra effort, she says to take a 3 weeks vacation paid. I take my three weeks. A few days before I am to go back to work, I call to make an appointment with the new restaurant manager and she says that things have changed and I am no longer needed! They have not replaced me, but this is a small town (Winter Park, Florida).

I am eligible for unemployment, but I don't know what to tell people.

What do you sugest?

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Nikia (10,946 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

13. I mentioned culturual changes within the organization

I also mentioned that while I was employed that it was difficult to devote my time to a job search.

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Nikia (10,946 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

14. I am glad to have this job

Although I had also passed the phone screen of a more prestigious company for a position that paid more. I did have doubts that I would make it all the way to getting hired for that position though, especially since I didn't really feel qualified.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2012, 04:22:40 PM »
DUmmie should write a book, "How to Succeed in Life at Being an Utter Failure".
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Offline formerlurker

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2012, 04:26:37 PM »
Truth is, if they liked her in the interview they would have accepted pretty much any general excuse.    They didn't like her.    I think she needs to work on her interview skills more than what response she should give.
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Offline BlueStateSaint

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2012, 04:51:18 PM »
This one in the OP amuses me:

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Not to go into too much detail, there were many changes going on in the company, a new boss, and demands that I felt were impossible being placed on me.

You mean, like, being accountable for your actions?
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Offline GOBUCKS

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2012, 05:01:54 PM »
Well, I followed the link, and I'm kind of astounded to learn the DUmp has a "Career Help And Advice" forum.

Can you imagine how oblivious one must be to ask a group of DUmpmonkeys for "career help and advice"?

It would be sad if they weren't contemptible DUmp democrats.

As it is, it's funny as hell.
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Offline Aristotelian

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2012, 05:22:25 PM »
Interviewing potential employees consists of taking their answers and mixing that with all of the other signs which they give to try and guess (one can never do more than that in a short interview) what the truth beneath it is.

Hearing a DUmmy say "impossible demands were being made of me" would be translated by any reasonable employer as "they expected me to get in on time, not to be stoned, to do a day's work, and not to leave early".
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Offline franksolich

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2012, 05:27:22 PM »
Quote from: Aristotelian on March 10, 2012, 05:22:25 PM
Interviewing potential employees consists of taking their answers and mixing that with all of the other signs which they give to try and guess (one can never do more than that in a short interview) what the truth beneath it is.

Hearing a DUmmy say "impossible demands were being made of me" would be translated by any reasonable employer as "they expected me to get in on time, not to be stoned, to do a day's work, and not to leave early".

Well, here's a question for wasp69, who knows human resources.

Perhaps the primitive could've said "I was way over my head."

I had to use that excuse one time, about fifteen years ago, and it didn't deter the place from hiring me.  (I wasn't applying for a similar sort of job, but rather a totally different sort.)
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Offline wasp69

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2012, 06:02:38 PM »
Quote from: franksolich on March 10, 2012, 05:27:22 PM
Well, here's a question for wasp69, who knows human resources.

Perhaps the primitive could've said "I was way over my head."

I had to use that excuse one time, about fifteen years ago, and it didn't deter the place from hiring me.  (I wasn't applying for a similar sort of job, but rather a totally different sort.)

Frank, I will be glad to answer that and hit some of the quoted DUmmie "suggestions" when i have a better keyboard than an ipad.  May not be until Monday, but I will get back.
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2012, 06:06:07 PM »
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blue ivy schlotsky (18 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

7. I guess this is why I have been unemployed for over four years!

I am repulsed and appalled by what we are expected to go through to have the "honor" of being able to earn a paycheck.

I'm repulsed by the fact you primitives think "oh the world owes me a livin'"

Goofy's rendition from a Disney cartoon.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sOnjBOOfr4[/youtube]
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Offline Mr Mannn

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2012, 06:08:36 PM »
In my long career, I left several places on bad terms.
I never said anything negative about my previous job. Employers do not want to hear that.

Why you left is a generic question, and they want a generic, feel-good answer. "Impossible terms" means fired to an interviewer...or an incompetant.


 
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Offline Chris_

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2012, 06:09:48 PM »
Aren't these the greatest bunch of potential employees you've ever seen in your life?  I'd hire them in a heartbeat!

I'd trade ten years of abusive, filthy kitchen work for abusive filthy lab work.  At least the pay is better.
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2012, 06:43:36 PM »
Quote from: Mr Mannn on March 10, 2012, 06:08:36 PM
In my long career, I left several places on bad terms.
I never said anything negative about my previous job. Employers do not want to hear that.

Why you left is a generic question, and they want a generic, feel-good answer. "Impossible terms" means fired to an interviewer...or an incompetant.


 

I've only left one place on what I felt were bad terms--then again, besides the Navy, SCE, the "bad" place (where I worked all of two months and hated every second), and my current employer, that pretty much covers my entire work career.

But I also knew long ago to never ever trash a former employer, no matter how justified.  They're legally prohibited from bad-mouthing you, and you should have the good sense as well as good taste to reciprocate.  Start trashing or giving excuses for why you left and all that tells a prospective employer is that you're a disloyal malcontent.

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Remember, 80% of success is just showing up.

Said by a person who never accomplished jack shit in life.  Showing up is about 1 percent, if that.  What you do in between when you show up and when you go home determines your success--or failure.
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2012, 09:34:39 PM »
Quote from: NHSparky on March 10, 2012, 06:43:36 PM
I've only left one place on what I felt were bad terms--then again, besides the Navy, SCE, the "bad" place (where I worked all of two months and hated every second), and my current employer, that pretty much covers my entire work career.

But I also knew long ago to never ever trash a former employer, no matter how justified.  They're legally prohibited from bad-mouthing you, and you should have the good sense as well as good taste to reciprocate.  Start trashing or giving excuses for why you left and all that tells a prospective employer is that you're a disloyal malcontent.

Said by a person who never accomplished jack shit in life.  Showing up is about 1 percent, if that.  What you do in between when you show up and when you go home determines your success--or failure.

The new employer can no longer contact your old employer. So tell 'em anything ya want, idiot! I swear, I don't know how any of these DUmbasses get a job!

But, that could be by design, doncha know.
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Offline NHSparky

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2012, 09:40:11 PM »
Quote from: AllosaursRus on March 10, 2012, 09:34:39 PM
The new employer can no longer contact your old employer. So tell 'em anything ya want, idiot! I swear, I don't know how any of these DUmbasses get a job!

But, that could be by design, doncha know.

Yup--about the only thing they're legally able to do is confirm dates of employment.  If they comment at all about your work performance or why you left (even if under best of terms) they've opened themselves to one hell of a lawsuit.
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Offline I_B_Perky

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2012, 10:48:14 PM »
OK Coach... where I come from "left job on bad terms" means you got fired. Oh wait! We are talking about dummies here. My bad.

 :-)
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2012, 11:55:23 PM »
Quote from: NHSparky on March 10, 2012, 09:40:11 PM
Yup--about the only thing they're legally able to do is confirm dates of employment.  If they comment at all about your work performance or why you left (even if under best of terms) they've opened themselves to one hell of a lawsuit.

Ya ought to see the damn forms ya have to fill out to hire anyone nowadays. Ya gotta have 2 ID's, you and the employee have to sign a form that you believe in good faith this idiot is a citizen, and if their SS and drivers license don't match, they're outa there!!! You let 'em work another hour, another minute, and you could be in deep doo doo!

States must be different, cause I just don't see how you hire an illegal and not know it. Yet, the first thing outa these guys mouths, is "I had no idea!". Bull Shit!!! They know!
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Offline Chris_

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2012, 12:01:08 AM »
Quote from: NHSparky on March 10, 2012, 09:40:11 PM
Yup--about the only thing they're legally able to do is confirm dates of employment.  If they comment at all about your work performance or why you left (even if under best of terms) they've opened themselves to one hell of a lawsuit.
As far as I know, they are allowed to ask if you would re-hire them after confirming basic employment information.  They haven't left much else to ask.  It's the same information they would use to award unemployment benefits.  Barry's buds may have made changes to that too, but I wouldn't know... I've never collected unemployment benefits for 99+ weeks.
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Offline obumazombie

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2012, 12:04:28 AM »
Quote from NHSparky

Quote
Remember, 80% of success is just showing up.

Said by a person who never accomplished jack shit in life.  Showing up is about 1 percent, if that.  What you do in between when you show up and when you go home determines your success--or failure.

This quote has been attributed to Woody Allen.
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2012, 12:22:06 AM »
Quote from: chris_ on March 11, 2012, 12:01:08 AM
As far as I know, they are allowed to ask if you would re-hire them after confirming basic employment information.  They haven't left much else to ask.  It's the same information they would use to award unemployment benefits.  Barry's buds may have made changes to that too, but I wouldn't know... I've never collected unemployment benefits for 99+ weeks.

Thank goodness I don't have to do that shit anymore! Nowadays, I just mail out 1099's, even that's only if I pay 'em more that 500 bucks. There's sumpin' to be said for simplifyin' yer life.
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Offline franksolich

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2012, 05:36:38 AM »
Quote from: I_B_Perky on March 10, 2012, 10:48:14 PM
OK Coach... where I come from "left job on bad terms" means you got fired. Oh wait! We are talking about dummies here. My bad.

In my case, I frankly admitted I'd left because I was over my head, couldn't do the job.

It was accounting.  Originally it involved no telephonic communication, but as time went on (I was there about four years), the position evolved into a lot of communication via telephone.  Being a good soldier, I bluffed and insisted I could handle it.  Well, I gave it the Boy Scout try, and got drained, wiped out.  It was just too hard.

But as it was an office job, I didn't feel badly about having to give it up, and gave my 30 days' notice and left, going into another sort of job--not even remotely similar to this one--where someone else had the chore of dealing with telephonic communication.
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Offline Skul

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2012, 06:28:05 AM »
Quote
Response to Nikia (Original post)
Mon Feb 20, 2012, 12:45 PM
blue ivy schlotsky (18 posts)

7. I guess this is why I have been unemployed for over four years!

I am repulsed and appalled by what we are expected to go through to have the "honor" of being able to earn a paycheck 
>snip<
No doubt sucking on the taxpayers dime right now.  :stoner:
Oddly enough, he/she isn't repulsed and appalled by the honor of taking other peoples money.
In other words, what the primative is saying is..."I'm to lazy to find work, and I want free stuff".
Listenng in on a interview with that DUmpmonkey, would be comedy gold. :lmao:
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Offline jukin

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2012, 10:52:45 AM »
My knowledge is aged but when I would get calls for references for a former bad employee I would simply say that I would not rehire that person. I'm guessing that it is not the DUche's answer to the question but the former employer's answer that is killing its chances with the new company.
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Offline Tucker

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2012, 11:02:42 AM »
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Scuba (15,236 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

1. Yeah, I'd drop any reference to stress issues and focus on the turmoil...

... at your previous employer. "Impossible demands" might be re-stated as "demands that I compromise my personal ethics" or "demands that were not tolerable from a family perspective".

Good luck. Remember, 80% of success is just showing up.

DUmmies don't have to look any further than their own nose to see their problems.

Heaven forbid you actually do something productive while you're at work.
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2012, 02:18:33 PM »
Quote from: Tucker on March 11, 2012, 11:02:42 AM
DUmmies don't have to look any further than their own nose to see their problems.

Heaven forbid you actually do something productive while you're at work.

Funny how primitives never look in the mirror first, or ever for that matter, ain't it.
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Offline obumazombie

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Re: primitive left job on bad terms
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2012, 05:49:02 PM »
Quote from: AllosaursRus on March 11, 2012, 02:18:33 PM
Funny how primitives never look in the mirror first, or ever for that matter, ain't it.
They make great projectors though.
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There were only two options for gender. At last count there are at least 12, according to libs. By that standard, I'm a male lesbian.
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