Judge Cites Same-Sex Marriage in Declaring Polygamy Ban Unconstitutional

[jtyangel]

While I can see that somewhat, Arabic and Asian literature is replete with instances of it not working out, especially with the junior wife being oppressed by the elder ones, or the senior one being neglected in favor of the new younger hottie.  In our own cultural context, most of the women who seem to be interested in it seem to be more interested in the man still being the primary breadwinner without the women themselves being professionals outside the home, which spreads the household resources that much thinner than with a couple...though thanks to our bizarre social entitlement system, they may be able to get benefits as single mothers and so artificially (And fraudulently, to my mind) collect a bunch of gubmint money to make up the difference.

Oh I agree with you. What I presented is an idealized situation where women gain from the other emotional relationships--I know women can drain the men they are with sometimes if they are emotionally needy. IN an ideal situation, what I'm eluding to is healthy friendships, particularly where one does not have sisters to share that relationship with, that would satisfy those emotional needs. LIke I said I don't share well and women are too fickle for me to trust bringing one in for guaranteed sisterhood. The type of female relationships I'm eluding to are usually created by women themselves in the form of friendships, not by their husbands trying to introduce another female into the mix.

I think I get though if it's one's conviction and it's not forced or contrived like you mentioned where the appeal is for women, particularly where there are religious aspects to it. Not my thing, but I get it.

[DumbAss Tanker]

You don't know an awful lot about women if you don't understand emotional relationships between  them. I have friends who are like sisters to me and I could see myself living with on a daily basis. I have no interest in them sexually.


 

Leave us our dreams, dammit!!!

 

[jtyangel]

That was exactly the issue with Tom Green, a member of the fundamental "sect" of the LDS church (officially denounced and not recognized by the mainstream LDS church).

While the mainstream LDS church officially renounced polygamy/polygyny as a condition to Statehood back in 1896, the fundamental portion of the church never really went with that flow. As a result, polygyny still is practiced by the more fundamental sects, which are scattered in the western U.S. to include towns like Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, AZ. They're also up in British Columbia.

More to the point, the case of Tom Green was predicated on bigamy (he was quite loud about his multiple wives), child rape, and money extracted from the state in the form of welfare. He did not work. This was a guy who had 5-6 wives and something like 29 kids and relied on his "wives" filing for single mother welfare. He was eventually tried and convicted of 4 counts of bigamy and one count of failure to pay child support, and one count of child rape.

So besides the cultural issues, the state of Utah (in this case) is forced to look at the fraud part of polygyny, not to mention the child rape thing as well.

You bring up a good point...one that would make the ghetto full of polygamy in a sense;-) lol

[jtyangel]

Leave us our dreams, dammit!!!

 

I am a dreamcrusher!

[vesta111]

Some where I read that some of the children had problems as their patents were too close in relationship with family members.  Say a 13 year old girl was forced to marry her uncle, the children from that marriage were to become a bit strange. They in turn  the children from that marriage marry their grandpa-----and their children married back into the  old uncles. 

These Polygamous sects with a function of multiple wives and inter marriage  is going to cause some odd defects in the kids.-----Not bad, so far no kids are born with 6 fingers on each hand, the kids so far show no outward sign of deformity, or problems.   

We do not know what all this intermarriage does to the gene pool.    All we know is that for thousands of years most civilizations forbid it.  Usually the tribes that lived in the out back------The Liberal society's  encouraged it  as in Egypt but those that lived in the out back would not allow it.

[Big Dog]

vesta, dear. What planet are you from?

[freedumb2003b]

Some where I read that some of the children had problems as their patents were too close in relationship with family members.  Say a 13 year old girl was forced to marry her uncle, the children from that marriage were to become a bit strange. They in turn  the children from that marriage marry their grandpa-----and their children married back into the  old uncles. 

"I'm My Own Grandpa" was written by Dwight Latham;moe Jaffe.

Many, many years ago when I was twenty-three
I was married to a widow who was pretty as could be
This widow had a grown-up daughter who had hair of red
My father fell in love with her and soon they too were wed

This made my dad my son-in-law and really changed my life
For now my daughter was my mother, 'cause she was my father's wife
And to complicate the matter, even though it brought me joy
I soon became the father of a bouncing baby boy

My little baby then became a brother-in-law to dad
And so became my uncle, though it made me very sad
For if he were my uncle, then that also made him brother
Of the widow's grownup daughter, who was of course my step-mother

Father's wife then had a son who kept them on the run
And he became my grandchild, for he was my daughter's son
My wife is now my mother's mother and it makes me blue
Because although she is my wife, she's my grandmother too

Now if my wife is my grandmother, then I'm her grandchild
And every time I think of it, it nearly drives me wild
'Cause now I have become the strangest 'case you ever saw
As husband of my grandmother, I am my own grandpa

I'm my own grandpa, I'm my own grandpa
It sounds funny, I know but it really is so
I'm my own grandpa



Read more: Ray Stevens - I'm My Own Grandpa Lyrics | MetroLyrics

[longview]

That was exactly the issue with Tom Green, a member of the fundamental "sect" of the LDS church (officially denounced and not recognized by the mainstream LDS church).

While the mainstream LDS church officially renounced polygamy/polygyny as a condition to Statehood back in 1896, the fundamental portion of the church never really went with that flow. As a result, polygyny still is practiced by the more fundamental sects, which are scattered in the western U.S. to include towns like Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, AZ. They're also up in British Columbia.

More to the point, the case of Tom Green was predicated on bigamy (he was quite loud about his multiple wives), child rape, and money extracted from the state in the form of welfare. He did not work. This was a guy who had 5-6 wives and something like 29 kids and relied on his "wives" filing for single mother welfare. He was eventually tried and convicted of 4 counts of bigamy and one count of failure to pay child support, and one count of child rape.

So besides the cultural issues, the state of Utah (in this case) is forced to look at the fraud part of polygyny, not to mention the child rape thing as well.

"Families" like these exist here, too.  And the second, third, etc. wives and kids do get public assistance.  It's just hard to tell if the people involved are just skanky or hiding a marriage with their bed hopping around town.

[obumazombie]

About 50% of guys prove by divorce they can't handle just 1 wife.
The remaining 50% are barely hanging on by their fingernails most of the time.

[Eupher]

About 50% of guys prove by divorce they can't handle just 1 wife.
The remaining 50% are barely hanging on by their fingernails most of the time.

Amen, brother.

 

h5

[vesta111]

A nightmare for those tracking back their ancestors.

Some where in the Old Testament is a law that states------If a husband were  to die leaving his wife and children destitute, the husbands brother had the duty to marry his sister-in - law and adopt her children as his own.

In the late 1600 this in America was followed backward as when a wife died leaving her husband with a dozen kids, the mother's sister would come in marry her brother- in- law and help him raise his and soon after their children.

This was survival for family's back then.

Today we have no need for this tradition as with modern medicine  few woman die at 30 after birthing a child every year, we have more and more Great-Grand -mothers at a much younger age.

The idea of many wives was important way back when as the offspring, if sons were to grow up to fight the wars and the daughters used to keep peace with a former enemy through marriage. The kingdoms were then united through the children they produced.

This idea of many wives is still around, Ghetto kids of 15-16 have knocked up 3-4 girls before they turn 18.   They do not support the children, just let the Mothers support the kids and them on their welfare checks.

Far as I am concerned, I as a young woman would never go along with this idea.

  HOWEVER, now that I am old and gray, the idea of Hubby bringing in a couple of brides to clean the house  do the cooking and take care of me, walk the dog, mow the lawn, wash the clothing and scrub the floors, and give me a good nights sleep as he will be snoring in someone else's bed, Darn I wonder if he will convert next week ?

[DefiantSix]

A nightmare for those tracking back their ancestors.

How do you figure, Vesta? 

The Mormons - of which I am one - have a fairly prominent history in polygamy, and a reputation for being on top of things as far as tracing our ancestry goes; even through the polygamy years. Most of us who have ancestry during that period - my wife being one - have detailed records of who their father was, and which of his wives they are descended through. It makes for a fun encounter when a descendant through one wife runs into one from another wife, and then proceed to pass an entire verbal geneaology at what would otherwise be just another chance meeting in worship service or at the supermarket (though it does get a bit tiring the 30th time through for someone like me, who doesn't have such encyclopedic families cataloged).

Further, how much more difficult would that be, than trying to trace ancestry through a line where a father/grandfather/mother/grandmother/etc. has been divorced/widowed and re-married, sometimes multiple times, with progeny from each union? We may not have polygamy per se in modern times, but I personally see little difference between the divorce/remarriage model currently common in our country, and the polygamy model experienced by my son's ancestors 100 years ago.

[Eupher]

How do you figure, Vesta? 

The Mormons - of which I am one - have a fairly prominent history in polygamy, and a reputation for being on top of things as far as tracing our ancestry goes; even through the polygamy years. Most of us who have ancestry during that period - my wife being one - have detailed records of who their father was, and which of his wives they are descended through. It makes for a fun encounter when a descendant through one wife runs into one from another wife, and then proceed to pass an entire verbal geneaology at what would otherwise be just another chance meeting in worship service or at the supermarket (though it does get a bit tiring the 30th time through for someone like me, who doesn't have such encyclopedic families cataloged).

Further, how much more difficult would that be, than trying to trace ancestry through a line where a father/grandfather/mother/grandmother/etc. has been divorced/widowed and re-married, sometimes multiple times, with progeny from each union? We may not have polygamy per se in modern times, but I personally see little difference between the divorce/remarriage model currently common in our country, and the polygamy model experienced by my son's ancestors 100 years ago.

The LDS church is recognized by a helluva lot of genealogists as having tons of very useful data.