Jared Loughner is a product of Sheriff Dupnik’s office

[Eupher]

Vesta, this turd has made his county a "sanctuary" for the folks invading "his state".  He is the very anti-thesis to Sheriff Joe Arpaio, and if his deputies are putting their lives on the line when they go out to do their job, it's at least partly because he himself has set policies which make their jobs more difficult, and then tied their hands before sending 'em out.

He deserves none of the sympathy you seem willing to grant him.

I'm not sure that vesta "gets it", but it's a great response and worthy of a h5.

[vesta111]

Vesta, this turd has made his county a "sanctuary" for the folks invading "his state".  He is the very anti-thesis to Sheriff Joe Arpaio, and if his deputies are putting their lives on the line when they go out to do their job, it's at least partly because he himself has set policies which make their jobs more difficult, and then tied their hands before sending 'em out.

He deserves none of the sympathy you seem willing to grant him.

Thank you DEFIANT, way up here in the frozen North it is difficult to keep track of everything going on in all 50 states.    Until he appeared on TV I had never heard of the old coot, Sherriff Joe yes but not this old fella.

Kind of sad to see a 50 year carear destroyed.

[thundley4]

Thank you DEFIANT, way up here in the frozen North it is difficult to keep track of everything going on in all 50 states.    Until he appeared on TV I had never heard of the old coot, Sherriff Joe yes but not this old fella.

Kind of sad to see a 50 year carear destroyed.

It would be sad if he wasn't doing it to himself.

[DumbAss Tanker]

I have to say from my own experience in working similar issues, I very strongly suspected this would prove to be the case all along. 

It is quite difficult to get adults involuntarity committed for more than 96 hours, and few local law enforcement officials want to screw with it or accept the costs to the county that it involves.  Responding cops are normally great, the problems come up at the Sheriff/Chief of PD level.  I'd add that Pima County and the City of Tucson are not some broke-ass little Alabama 'ville, and they have all the financial and administrative wherewithal to go for it in an appropriate case, and if ever one was, this looks like it was long before that nut ever started firing.

Supreme Court precedent may protect the City and the Pima Count Sheriff from financial liability for what looks like culpable negligence and dereliction, but perhaps the electorate will hold him accountable.   

[debk]

I have to say from my own experience in working similar issues, I very strongly suspected this would prove to be the case all along. 

It is quite difficult to get adults involuntarity committed for more than 96 hours, and few local law enforcement officials want to screw with it or accept the costs to the county that it involves.  Responding cops are normally great, the problems come up at the Sheriff/Chief of PD level.  I'd add that Pima County and the City of Tucson are not some broke-ass little Alabama 'ville, and they have all the financial and administrative wherewithal to go for it in an appropriate case, and if ever one was, this looks like it was long before that nut ever started firing.

Supreme Court precedent may protect the City and the Pima Count Sheriff from financial liability for what looks like culpable negligence and dereliction, but perhaps the electorate will hold him accountable.   

Maybe...just maybe...this horrible shooting will get the laws changed as far as getting someone committed. Here it's only 72 hours, and there has to be proof... FIRST...that the individual is "a harm to themself or others".

[Ptarmigan]

Maybe...just maybe...this horrible shooting will get the laws changed as far as getting someone committed. Here it's only 72 hours, and there has to be proof... FIRST...that the individual is "a harm to themself or others".

It is hard to get a court order if one wants to be a guardian of a mentally ill person 18 and above. Also, one has to prove that the person is an absolute danger to others.

[Eupher]

Hindsight is usually 20/20 and everybody's lamenting the fact that Loughner ran around showing his lunacy at every opportunity and was never "hauled in".

The community college he attended demanded that he (Loughner) see a shrink before they'd allow him back in the classroom. That was as close as he came to being institutionalized. Perhaps Loughner himself knows just how loony he is and avoided seeing that shrink figuring that they'd lock him up and throw away the key after the examination, but we'll likely never know that.

My point is, this hindsight business is wonderfully accurate. But I'm not so sure that there shouldn't be very, very rigorous controls to be put in place before involuntarily committing anybody -- even certifiable wackos like Loughner. Burden of proof has to be on the plaintiff and it had better be strong and convincing.

One of the great ironies is, at least in Michigan, involves loss of mental capacity and inability to care for oneself as that occurred to my stepfather in 2007. The VA diagnosed him with dementia and immediately hospitalized him (which is another way of saying they incarcerated him). As it was, he most certainly was a danger to himself and others and after that diagnosis, that was the prudent thing to do.

But the irony came when an attorney, working for the state of Michigan, asked my stepfather - who has been declared medically incompetent and is heading toward being declared legally incompetent as well - who he would like to have as a legal guardian.

My stepdad had it in his mind that my sister and I - his stepchildren - wanted his house, his van, his property. This in spite of the fact we both lived in differing states. So he told the attorney he'd prefer to have somebody "with no vested interested" or a "3rd party" as a legal guardian.

The judge accepted the wishes of an mentally incompetent man versus family members - albeit stepchildren - who were there are more than willing to sort the legal issues out.

My sister and I went to court and the judge wouldn't even speak to us.

My stepdad went to a nursing home in Detroit.

Less than a year later, he was dead at the age of 79.

There is NO doubt in my mind he died much earlier than he should've, all because the state got involved and sent him to a place that was little more than a death factory.

Sorry for the derail, but this business about declaring people incompetent strikes a nerve.

[DumbAss Tanker]

With processing, judicial approval, admin overhead, transportation, etc., 72 hours 'Under observation' usually works out to 96 hours actually in custody.  Just sayin'.

Now far be it from me to advocate for anything on firearms restrictions, but there is a gaping loophole in that it's illegal to sell guns to crazy people, but other than being under an outstanding restraining order or direct observation of weird behavior, there really isn't a solid reporting system to tell the seller to know he's dealing with a bona fide lunatic.

[debk]

With processing, judicial approval, admin overhead, transportation, etc., 72 hours 'Under observation' usually works out to 96 hours actually in custody.  Just sayin'.

Now far be it from me to advocate for anything on firearms restrictions, but there is a gaping loophole in that it's illegal to sell guns to crazy people, but other than being under an outstanding restraining order or direct observation of weird behavior, there really isn't a solid reporting system to tell the seller to know he's dealing with a bona fide lunatic.

I wasn't thinking about going from jail to a mental health facility.

I was involved with 2 acquaintances who trying to get their kids into a facility.

One had a kid- he was 17 at the time, who was out of control, had totaled a car, dropped out of high school, and she was afraid he would hurt her, himself and maybe others. The kid had been out of control for years, but got worse after they found his father dead on the family room couch, New Year's Day morning, from a heart attack.   Because he hadn't actually harmed himself, or anyone else....his mom couldn't get him any help. Somehow, the kid got his act together, has been in the Army for a couple of years, is married and has a little boy...ran into him and his wife at the grocery a couple of months ago, and he seems normal!!! Who would have ever thought?

The other one was a 15yo old girl. Her mom worked for M. I helped her mom get her into a facility. She was a "cutter". She disappeared one night, and when they found her about 36 hours later, she was threatening to kill herself. It took us half a day at the facility, but they did take her, for 72 hours. I don't know what has happened to her, as they live about an hour away. Last I heard, a couple of years ago, the girl had dropped out of school and was living with some boy and his family. 

Of the two kids....the boy is the one that I would have thought would wind up incarcerated for something bad.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Don't believe I mentioned 'Jail,' and minors are a bit different deal (Which Loughner wasn't, and minors can't buy guns under the '68 law either) but 19 times out of 20, cops are the responders that have to deal with out-of-control adults and so their chain of command has a lot to say about where the case goes.

[debk]

Don't believe I mentioned 'Jail,' and minors are a bit different deal (Which Loughner wasn't, and minors can't buy guns under the '68 law either) but 19 times out of 20, cops are the responders that have to deal with out-of-control adults and so their chain of command has a lot to say about where the case goes.

You didn't...and I probably shouldn't have said "jail" as I'm not sure where an individual is taken by the police. Since the state/county run mental health facility - was sort of shut down, several years ago, I don't know where "out of control" adults are taken. Maybe to a hospital? We have 4 hospitals here with locked down psych floors.

[Thor]

Thor, I have no idea what SB 1070 is, please fill me in--Thank You.

look it up, bitch.

Dutch: