The Coming Health Care Black Market

[thundley4]

The ObamaCare system imposes many onerous new requirements on the health care system, among the most aggravating are these:
Doctor's decisions with regards to tests, treatments, and procedures are now subject to second guessing by bureaucrats and health care review boards (Death Panels) Doctors can be punished by the Government for ordering tests and procedures bureaucrats deem "excessive." (But they can still be sued by ambulance chasers for not performing the tests the Government will punish them if they perform.)

Patient records will be required to be compiled electronically which means they will be easily accessed by Government agencies like the IRS, which is charged with enforcement of ObamaCare. (So much for "Keep your hands and your laws off my body, right?")
There is a way for doctors to avoid the intrusiveness and micromanagement of ObamaCare; They can opt out of the insurance system. If doctors see patients on a pay-for-service basis, they don't have to turn over records to the state, and they don't have HHS bureaucrats second-guessing them.

And the really cool part is, if you have a private arrangement with a doctor, and the doctor finds something seriously and expensively wrong with you, you can sign up with insurance afterward because they can no longer exclude pre-existing conditions. Isn't that Teh Awesome! It's like not having to buy car insurance until after you total your car!

Ironically, ObamaCare may result in an even more stratified system, where the affluent have access to quality, private care while the masses are subject to rationing of resources limited by Government edict. (And health care resources are likely to become more scarce with the odious burdens placed on them under ObamaCare.) Which is, come to think of it, exactly how it works out in Britain and Canada.

Moonbattery

Has anyone seen the USA Network series Royal Pains?  It's about a doctor that moves to a beach front community and caters to the needs and hypochondriacs that live there.  Works for cash and does quite well.

[longview]

Tests, procedures, medications are already limited by regulation and third party payors.  Some things require cash payment now (meds not approved for a specific condition, for example).

I sure don't think this recent legislation is going to improve things, though.

[vesta111]

Tests, procedures, medications are already limited by regulation and third party payors.  Some things require cash payment now (meds not approved for a specific condition, for example).

I sure don't think this recent legislation is going to improve things, though.

Family member out of the blue after getting a dry socket from tooth pulled began to break out in boils , took 5 doctors to find they had Phempagus, a split gene or what ever that goes back to the time of Moses. 

There was only one doctor who believed they could help as the disease is making a come back.   This Doctor practiced in Boston and the afflicted came from around the world to see him.  One does not die of the disease, the pain is so great they commit suicide.

This doctor knew he could not cure the disease but had found a way to place it in remission.

So expensive were his treatments that medicare would not pay for them.  So the Doctor diagnosed his patients with a similar disease that was paid for.

He got caught a few years ago, what a mess for him and his patients.

Then there are the Vets. that get caught perscribing drugs for animals knowing the owners will be taking them,-----A drug for a dog or cat may cost $5.00 a month and the exact same thing for a human $350.00.

Some doctors today prescribe a double dose of medication and instruct the patient to cut them in half so they get an extra months worth.

All this has been going on for years, I wonder how the new and better medical care will indeed bring out American ingenuity between the doctors and their patients to keep costs very low.?

[NHSparky]

Pssst...Vesta.

You've been hitting whatever the vet has been giving you a bit hard of late.

Please show me common drugs prescribed for pets which humans can also take.  And as a pet owner, I can tell you it's a HELL of a lot more for me to take my critters to the vet, and the prescriptions I get for them, 1--can't be used on humans, 2--are pretty ****ing expensive, 3--I don't have health insurance for them.

[thundley4]

Pssst...Vesta.

You've been hitting whatever the vet has been giving you a bit hard of late.

Please show me common drugs prescribed for pets which humans can also take.  And as a pet owner, I can tell you it's a HELL of a lot more for me to take my critters to the vet, and the prescriptions I get for them, 1--can't be used on humans, 2--are pretty ****ing expensive, 3--I don't have health insurance for them.

You know that pet insurance is available? At least for dogs, but they have to be enrolled as puppies under a certain age, and preexisting conditions are not covered.

[NHSparky]

You know that pet insurance is available? At least for dogs, but they have to be enrolled as puppies under a certain age, and preexisting conditions are not covered.

Yeah, I saw that somewhere.  Unfortunately, I didn't get Laddie from my father until he was about 2, so no dice there.  And the really expensive pet medication?  Damn Revolution (flea and tick meds) for the cats.  $15 per monthly dose EACH for two cats (even 1-800-PetMeds charges $180 for 12 doses.)  MY prescriptions cost less.

[thundley4]

Yeah, I saw that somewhere.  Unfortunately, I didn't get Laddie from my father until he was about 2, so no dice there.  And the really expensive pet medication?  Damn Revolution (flea and tick meds) for the cats.  $15 per monthly dose EACH for two cats (even 1-800-PetMeds charges $180 for 12 doses.)  MY prescriptions cost less.

Try having a dog go through cancer surgery and follow up treatments for a couple of years.

[Chris_]

Yeah, I saw that somewhere.  Unfortunately, I didn't get Laddie from my father until he was about 2, so no dice there.  And the really expensive pet medication?  Damn Revolution (flea and tick meds) for the cats.  $15 per monthly dose EACH for two cats (even 1-800-PetMeds charges $180 for 12 doses.)  MY prescriptions cost less.

I buy stuff for our dogs from "Pets Megastore"    It's an internet pet supply in Australia, and the flea, and heartworm stuff costs less than half what our vet charges for it.....

On prescription stuff, I have the vet write me a script, and either get it from Omaha Vet supply, or a Vet supply house in Canada......also for about half of what you'll pay for it here....

doc

[docstew]

Pssst...Vesta.

You've been hitting whatever the vet has been giving you a bit hard of late.

Please show me common drugs prescribed for pets which humans can also take.  And as a pet owner, I can tell you it's a HELL of a lot more for me to take my critters to the vet, and the prescriptions I get for them, 1--can't be used on humans, 2--are pretty ****ing expensive, 3--I don't have health insurance for them.

meloxicam, furosimide, most antibiotics, the list goes on...

[NHSparky]

meloxicam, furosimide, most antibiotics, the list goes on...

I know there are SOME, but you'd have a hard time convincing me to get them from the vet when he charges full price and I get mine based on my prescription benefit from my health insurance.

[formerlurker]

But what about pre-existing conditions?

A truly effective insurance policy would combine coverage for this year's expenses with the right to buy insurance in the future at a set price. Today, employer-based group coverage provides the former but, crucially, not the latter. A "guaranteed renewable" individual insurance contract is the simplest way to deliver both. Once you sign up, you can keep insurance for life, and your premiums do not rise if you get sicker. Term life insurance, for example, is fully guaranteed renewable. Individual health insurance is mostly so. And insurers are getting more creative. UnitedHealth now lets you buy the right to future insurance—insurance against developing a pre-existing condition.

These market solutions can be refined. Insurance policies could separate current insurance and the right to buy future insurance. Then, if you are temporarily covered by an employer, you could keep the pre-existing-condition protection.

Some insurers avoid their guaranteed-renewable obligations by assigning people to pools and raising rates as healthy people leave the pools. Health insurers, like life insurers, could write contracts that treat all of their customers equally.

The right to future insurance could be transferrable to another company, for example, if you move. You could have the right that your company will pay a lump sum, so that a new insurer will take you, with no change in your premiums. Better, this sum could be occasionally placed in a custodial account. If you got sick but had something like a health-savings account to pay high premiums, you could always get new insurance. Insurers would then compete for sick people too.

Innovations like these would catch on quickly in a vibrant, deregulated individual insurance market.

How do we know insurers will honor such contracts? What about the stories of insurers who drop customers when they get sick? A competitive market is the best consumer protection. A car insurer that doesn't pay claims quickly loses customers and goes out of business. And courts do still enforce contracts.

How do we get to a competitive market? The tax deduction for employer-provided group insurance, which has nearly destroyed the individual insurance market, is a central culprit. If we don't have the will to remove it, the deduction could be structured to enhance competition and the right to future insurance. We could restrict the tax deduction to individual, portable, long-term insurance and to the high-deductible plans that people choose with their own money.

More importantly, health care and insurance are overly protected and regulated businesses. We need to allow the same innovation, entry, and competition that has slashed costs elsewhere in our economy. For example, we need to remove regulations such as the ban on cross-state insurance. Think about it. What else aren't we allowed to purchase in another state?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203609204574316172512242220.html

[vesta111]

meloxicam, furosimide, most antibiotics, the list goes on...

Thank you Doc, we had to put a hyper active dog on some kind of antidepressant and the cost was $5.00 for a month worth.  It said right on the RX  [ DOG ] and my pharmacist told me the price for a human would be over a hundred bucks at that time.

[docstew]

Thank you Doc, we had to put a hyper active dog on some kind of antidepressant and the cost was $5.00 for a month worth.  It said right on the RX  [ DOG ] and my pharmacist told me the price for a human would be over a hundred bucks at that time.

You went to a regular pharmacy for pet meds?  My wife usually gets our critter's meds right there at the vet.  I don't think I've ever seen a pharmacy fill a veterinary prescription.

Must be a Maine thing...

[Chris_]

You went to a regular pharmacy for pet meds?  My wife usually gets our critter's meds right there at the vet.  I don't think I've ever seen a pharmacy fill a veterinary prescription.

Must be a Maine thing...

There are n number of drugs that vets use that have close relatives (or exact equivalents) in  human use.  My MIL has a Beagle with seizures, and the dog gets a generic human epilepsy med straight from Walmart for $4......one of my Westies has severe storm anxiety, and the vet prescribes Valium for her.....same deal, $4 at Walmart.  Several antibiotics can also used for both humans and animals, and a human antidepressant drug is used to treat an eye disorder in cats......

The key is to find a vet that is more interested in helping you, your wallet, and your pet, than he/she is in lining his own pockets.....

doc

[vesta111]

I find it interesting that VETS proform the same services for our animals as people doctors do.

I also find it odd that seldom if ever do I hear about a post operative infection or error made on a pet. 

15 years ago the cost to spay my 120 pound Rottie was $180.00     The cost to do the same thing to a 120 pound woman was in the thousands.   Joking with the Vet I asked him if I ever needed that operation, could I come to him for the procedure.   He laughed and told me OK, no problem as long as I did not mind spending the night in a straw filled cage and drinking water from a dog dish.

In 22 years I worked with 3-perhaps 4 woman that darn near died due to complications from the same surgery millions of pets get with absolutely no problems

We kind of dismiss a Vet. forgetting they can and do operate for brain surgery to repairing heart valves.  So why on earth are there so little complications such as Staff infections, foreign objects left after an operation, wrong body part removed or unexplained death in a young animal.?

People are rushed out of a hospital after a one days stay due to not lack of beds but precaution against becoming sicker when they leave then when they went in.

We today have a Black Market in medical care in this country's.   People doctors trained elsewhere in the world and this includes Registered Nurses come to live here but cannot pass our medical boards.    In California thousands of these who were professionals in a 3 world country have set up operating rooms in their frigging garages or operate in a patients home.  There has been a few high profile court cases on these people that has led to deaths.

These People not only cannot practice medicine but they cannot even practice on a cat or dog in this country, yet like a witch doctor in a small village, they do.

Sparky, I have yet to get any meds from a Vet for myself or family, however if a family member is told they need life saving surgery but the waiting list is too long, I just may start looking around before I send them to Mexico to have Apricot Pitts shoved up their butt.

Was that not poor Steve McQueen so desperate for life that was willing to try anything.?
   

[Chris_]

I find it interesting that VETS proform the same services for our animals as people doctors do.

I also find it odd that seldom if ever do I hear about a post operative infection or error made on a pet. 

15 years ago the cost to spay my 120 pound Rottie was $180.00     The cost to do the same thing to a 120 pound woman was in the thousands.   Joking with the Vet I asked him if I ever needed that operation, could I come to him for the procedure.   He laughed and told me OK, no problem as long as I did not mind spending the night in a straw filled cage and drinking water from a dog dish.

I would hazard a guess that if your Rottie developed complications from surgery.......the dog wouldn't sue the Vet for 20 million dollars........

doc