Author Topic: People Who Personify Evil  (Read 4524 times)

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Offline TheSarge

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Re: People Who Personify Evil
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2008, 01:49:55 PM »
If you're going to have that kind of attitude about it...then you should add Generals Ike, Patton, MacArthur, Bradley, Schwartzkoph, McCaffery and Petraeus along with Presidents Roosevelt, Truman, Reagan Bush 41 and 43 to that list huh?
Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years.  The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

If it walks like a donkey and brays like a donkey and smells like a donkey - it's Cold Warrior.  - PoliCon



Palin has run a state, a town and a commercial fishing operation. Obama ain't run nothin' but his mouth. - Mark Steyn

Offline Jim

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Re: People Who Personify Evil
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2008, 01:57:10 PM »
Add to the list: Robert E.  Lee and Jefferson Davis, who would rather sacrifice all the blood of innocent boys in the South than give up owning other human beings.




Southern volunteers vs northern conscripts including boatloads of Irish immigrants who could pony up $200 (a fortune at the time) or join the Union forces.

If slavery was the issue, why was Lincoln unwilling to pursue the path that had been leading to bloodless emancipation the world over in the same period ?

Read the book.

Or this one which will also explain how racist Lincoln was...

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa082800a.htm

Quote
In his new book,  Forced Into Glory: Abraham Lincoln's White Dream, black American author,   Lerone Bennett, presents historic evidence supporting the theory that Abraham Lincoln was, in fact, a devoted racist harboring a life-long desire to see all black Americans deported to Africa.

Bennett suggests that as a young politician in Illinois, Lincoln regularly used racial slurs in speeches, told racial jokes to his black servants, and vocally opposed any new laws that would have bettered the lives of black Americans.

Key to Bennett's thesis is the 1863 Emancipation Proclamation which, Bennett argues, Lincoln was forced into issuing by the powerful abolitionist wing of his own party. Bennett asserts that Lincoln carefully worded the document to apply only to the rebel Southern states, which were not under Union control at the time, thus resulting in an Emancipation Proclamation that did not in itself free a single slave.

At one point, Bennett quotes William Henry Seward, Lincoln's secretary of state, who referred to the proclamation as a hollow, meaningless document showing no more than, "our sympathy with the slaves by emancipating the slaves where we cannot reach them and holding them in bondage where we can set them free."

Henry Clay Whitney, a close friend of Lincoln, is quoted by Bennett as saying the proclamation was "not the end designed by him (Lincoln), but only the means to the end, the end being the deportation of the slaves and the payment for them to their masters - at least to those who were loyal."
My fellow Americans, there is nothing audacious about hope. Hope is what makes people buy lottery tickets instead of paying the bills. Hope is for the old gals feeding the slots in Atlantic City. It destroys the inner-city kid who quits school because he hopes he'll be a world-famous recording artist.

What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama?

One is a well turned-out, good-looking, and let's be honest, pretty sexy piece of eye-candy.

The other kills her own food.

Offline Chris_

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Re: People Who Personify Evil
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2008, 02:02:21 PM »
Quote
Abraham Lincoln's White Dream, black American author,   Lerone Bennett, presents historic evidence supporting the theory that Abraham Lincoln was, in fact, a devoted racist harboring a life-long desire to see all black Americans deported to Africa.

No agenda there -- Black America is looking for Reparations and if they have to throw their emancipator under the bus to get them, so be it.
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline Jim

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Re: People Who Personify Evil
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2008, 05:07:10 PM »
Quote
Abraham Lincoln's White Dream, black American author,   Lerone Bennett, presents historic evidence supporting the theory that Abraham Lincoln was, in fact, a devoted racist harboring a life-long desire to see all black Americans deported to Africa.

No agenda there -- Black America is looking for Reparations and if they have to throw their emancipator under the bus to get them, so be it.




I hope you stretched out before you convoluted yourself with that one !

So tell me, how many slaves were freed by the Emancipation Proclamation ?
My fellow Americans, there is nothing audacious about hope. Hope is what makes people buy lottery tickets instead of paying the bills. Hope is for the old gals feeding the slots in Atlantic City. It destroys the inner-city kid who quits school because he hopes he'll be a world-famous recording artist.

What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama?

One is a well turned-out, good-looking, and let's be honest, pretty sexy piece of eye-candy.

The other kills her own food.

Offline mamacags

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Re: People Who Personify Evil
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2008, 05:07:12 PM »
Oh GATOR!!!!!!!!!!!  I missed you ever so much!!!!!!!! :whatever:
All the great things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope.
Winston Churchill

Offline formerlurker

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Re: People Who Personify Evil
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2008, 05:19:50 PM »
Enough of the revisionist Lincoln crap please.
 
Quote
Dishonest About Abe
A review of The Real Lincoln: A New Look at Abraham Lincoln, His Agenda, and an Unnecessary War, by Thomas DiLorenzo

By Thomas L. Krannawitter

This article appeared in the Spring 2002 issue of the Claremont Review of Books. Click here to send a comment. 

With malice towards all and charity towards none of Abraham Lincoln's principles and actions, The Real Lincoln is the latest attempt to finish the job so ignobly begun by John Wilkes Booth in April 1865. Although Lincoln breathed no more after that, his character and reputation lived on, to be sniped at ever since. The Lincoln haters are an increasingly diverse lot, with strange and not always compatible purposes. The alleged purpose of Thomas DiLorenzo's invective is to defend constitutionalism and free market economics. He claims to demonstrate that Lincoln was an enemy of both, as well as a hypocrite on the subject of "racial equality." What he mainly demonstrates, however, is that his aim is not nearly as good as Booth's.

As the title suggests, The Real Lincoln purports to go beyond the mountains of revisionist historiography to reveal Lincoln's genuine principles and purposes. According to DiLorenzo, these had nothing to do with the perpetuation of free government and the problem of slavery: The "real" Lincoln did not care a whit about the "peculiar institution." At the core of the "real" Lincoln's ambition was an unqualified and unwavering commitment to mercantilism, or socialism as DiLorenzo sometimes intimates. Lincoln would stop at nothing to impose the "Whig economic system" upon America, and any opinion he voiced regarding slavery was merely instrumental in advancing this end. Lincoln's "cause," in the words of DiLorenzo, was "centralized government and the pursuit of empire." According to DiLorenzo, Lincoln said this "over and over again," although DiLorenzo does not trouble himself to produce a shred of evidence for this assertion.

If the "real" Lincoln needed to resort to war to advance his cause, he was happy to do it: "Lincoln decided that he had to wage war on the South," because only military might would destroy "the constitutional logjam behind which the old Whig economic policy agenda had languished." In the end, writes DiLorenzo, "[lincoln] wanted war" and "was not about to let the Constitution stand in his way." Lincoln was devoted to undermining the Constitution in the name of tariffs and internal improvement schemes. In its place Lincoln hoped to build a centralized mercantilist-socialist state, with himself at the helm.

Of course Lincoln and his Republican party supported tariffs, as had many Federalists, Democrats, and Whigs before them. They understood, as DiLorenzo does not, that all economics is political economics, and that in a world dominated by monarchs it made sense to encourage the expansion of American manufacturing power through tariffs. According to DiLorenzo's libertarian-public choice analysis, Alexander Hamilton and his Whig followers — Daniel Webster, Henry Clay, and Lincoln above all — were arch-villain "statists" for supporting tariffs, while Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and John C. Calhoun were defenders of "free trade." DiLorenzo seems not to know that the first protective tariff in American history (1816) was introduced by Calhoun and supported by Madison and Jefferson, and opposed by Webster. DiLorenzo is so blinded by his commitment to purely theoretical free trade that he is oblivious to the real growing division between pro-slavery and pro-freedom forces in America in the 1850s. He cannot see that tariffs were in the service of free trade because they were in the service of freedom: tariffs advantaged free labor and put the squeeze on slave-labor economies.

In fact, DiLorenzo's "new look" shows us nothing new. From the time of Jefferson Davis's The Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government and Alexander Stephens's A Constitutional View of the Late War Between the States, the anti-Lincoln columns have marched over and over the same tired ground. Edgar Lee Masters's Lincoln the Man, which DiLorenzo quotes approvingly, was a breathless compilation of every slander ever made against Lincoln. But if DiLorenzo's message is old hat, the incompetence of the messenger is surely unprecedented. The book is a compendium of misquotations, out-of-context quotations, and wrongly attributed quotations — one howler after another, yet none of it funny.


http://www.claremont.org/publications/crb/id.736/article_detail.asp


*edited to meet Fair Use standards see forum rules*

Thanks! --DixieBelle
« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 10:27:37 AM by DixieBelle »

Offline Miss Mia

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Re: People Who Personify Evil
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2008, 05:31:27 PM »
Interesting formerlurker, thanks for posting.  :)
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Offline TheSarge

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Re: People Who Personify Evil
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2008, 05:51:18 PM »
Well done former.


I think that should just about put this crap about Lincoln to rest.
Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years.  The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

If it walks like a donkey and brays like a donkey and smells like a donkey - it's Cold Warrior.  - PoliCon



Palin has run a state, a town and a commercial fishing operation. Obama ain't run nothin' but his mouth. - Mark Steyn

Offline Jim

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Re: People Who Personify Evil
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2008, 08:51:11 PM »
Enough of the revisionist Lincoln crap please.


Walter E Williams doesn't seem to think its revisionist crap.  Of course he did take the time to read the book and all.

Quote
DiLorenzo Is Right About Lincoln

by Walter E. Williams

In 1831, long before the War between the States, South Carolina Senator John C. Calhoun said, "Stripped of all its covering, the naked question is, whether ours is a federal or consolidated government; a constitutional or absolute one; a government resting solidly on the basis of the sovereignty of the States, or on the unrestrained will of a majority; a form of government, as in all other unlimited ones, in which injustice, violence, and force must ultimately prevail." The War between the States answered that question and produced the foundation for the kind of government we have today: consolidated and absolute, based on the unrestrained will of the majority, with force, threats, and intimidation being the order of the day.

Today’s federal government is considerably at odds with that envisioned by the framers of the Constitution. Thomas J. DiLorenzo gives an account of how this came about in The Real Lincoln: A New Look at Abraham Lincoln, His Agenda, and an Unnecessary War.

As DiLorenzo documents – contrary to conventional wisdom, books about Lincoln, and the lessons taught in schools and colleges – the War between the States was not fought to end slavery; Even if it were, a natural question arises: Why was a costly war fought to end it? African slavery existed in many parts of the Western world, but it did not take warfare to end it. Dozens of countries, including the territorial possessions of the British, French, Portuguese, and Spanish, ended slavery peacefully during the late eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. Countries such as Venezuela and Colombia experienced conflict because slave emancipation was simply a ruse for revolutionaries who were seeking state power and were not motivated by emancipation per se.

Abraham Lincoln’s direct statements indicated his support for slavery; He defended slave owners’ right to own their property, saying that "when they remind us of their constitutional rights [to own slaves], I acknowledge them, not grudgingly but fully and fairly; and I would give them any legislation for the claiming of their fugitives" (in indicating support for the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850).

Abraham Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation was little more than a political gimmick, and he admitted so in a letter to Treasury Secretary Salmon P. Chase: "The original proclamation has no...legal justification, except as a military measure." Secretary of State William Seward said, "We show our sympathy with slavery by emancipating slaves where we cannot reach them and holding them in bondage where we can set them free. " Seward was acknowledging the fact that the Emancipation Proclamation applied only to slaves in states in rebellion against the United States and not to slaves in states not in rebellion.

March 22, 2005

Walter E. Williams is the John M. Olin distinguished professor of economics at George Mason University, and a nationally syndicated columnist. 

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/w-williams1.html

*edited to meet Fair Use standards - see forum rules*

Thanks! --DixieBelle

« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 10:31:18 AM by DixieBelle »
My fellow Americans, there is nothing audacious about hope. Hope is what makes people buy lottery tickets instead of paying the bills. Hope is for the old gals feeding the slots in Atlantic City. It destroys the inner-city kid who quits school because he hopes he'll be a world-famous recording artist.

What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama?

One is a well turned-out, good-looking, and let's be honest, pretty sexy piece of eye-candy.

The other kills her own food.

Offline formerlurker

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Re: People Who Personify Evil
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2008, 09:16:51 PM »
Enough of the revisionist Lincoln crap please.


Walter E Williams doesn't seem to think its revisionist crap.  Of course he did take the time to read the book and all.

Quote
DiLorenzo Is Right About Lincoln

by Walter E. Williams

In 1831, long before the War between the States, South Carolina Senator John C. Calhoun said, "Stripped of all its covering, the naked question is, whether ours is a federal or consolidated government; a constitutional or absolute one; a government resting solidly on the basis of the sovereignty of the States, or on the unrestrained will of a majority; a form of government, as in all other unlimited ones, in which injustice, violence, and force must ultimately prevail." The War between the States answered that question and produced the foundation for the kind of government we have today: consolidated and absolute, based on the unrestrained will of the majority, with force, threats, and intimidation being the order of the day.

Today’s federal government is considerably at odds with that envisioned by the framers of the Constitution. Thomas J. DiLorenzo gives an account of how this came about in The Real Lincoln: A New Look at Abraham Lincoln, His Agenda, and an Unnecessary War.

As DiLorenzo documents – contrary to conventional wisdom, books about Lincoln, and the lessons taught in schools and colleges – the War between the States was not fought to end slavery; Even if it were, a natural question arises: Why was a costly war fought to end it? African slavery existed in many parts of the Western world, but it did not take warfare to end it. Dozens of countries, including the territorial possessions of the British, French, Portuguese, and Spanish, ended slavery peacefully during the late eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. Countries such as Venezuela and Colombia experienced conflict because slave emancipation was simply a ruse for revolutionaries who were seeking state power and were not motivated by emancipation per se.

Abraham Lincoln’s direct statements indicated his support for slavery; He defended slave owners’ right to own their property, saying that "when they remind us of their constitutional rights [to own slaves], I acknowledge them, not grudgingly but fully and fairly; and I would give them any legislation for the claiming of their fugitives" (in indicating support for the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850).

Abraham Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation was little more than a political gimmick, and he admitted so in a letter to Treasury Secretary Salmon P. Chase: "The original proclamation has no...legal justification, except as a military measure." Secretary of State William Seward said, "We show our sympathy with slavery by emancipating slaves where we cannot reach them and holding them in bondage where we can set them free. " Seward was acknowledging the fact that the Emancipation Proclamation applied only to slaves in states in rebellion against the United States and not to slaves in states not in rebellion.

March 22, 2005

Walter E. Williams is the John M. Olin distinguished professor of economics at George Mason University, and a nationally syndicated columnist.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/w-williams1.html

*edited to meet Fair Use standards - see forum rules*

Thanks! --DixieBelle



1) so did the person who wrote the review of the book;

2) Lewrockwell will rot your brain.  Just say no.  You will thank me later.

« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 10:30:59 AM by DixieBelle »

Offline Jim

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Re: People Who Personify Evil
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2008, 09:28:34 PM »

1) so did the person who wrote the review of the book;

2) Lewrockwell will rot your brain.  Just say no.  You will thank me later.

I don't care much about Lew but Dr Williams has earned my respect. 

Some book reviewer with a book of his own to sell ?  And that title, Vindicating Lincoln: Defending the Ideals of Our Greatest President... ideals are what he's defending, maybe not the history itself ?  That swhat all the other Lincoln defenders had to do because the actual documented history is indefensible.

?


So read both and make up your own minds.

*edited to fix quote tags - DixieBelle*
« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 10:32:29 AM by DixieBelle »
My fellow Americans, there is nothing audacious about hope. Hope is what makes people buy lottery tickets instead of paying the bills. Hope is for the old gals feeding the slots in Atlantic City. It destroys the inner-city kid who quits school because he hopes he'll be a world-famous recording artist.

What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama?

One is a well turned-out, good-looking, and let's be honest, pretty sexy piece of eye-candy.

The other kills her own food.

Offline formerlurker

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Re: People Who Personify Evil
« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2008, 06:43:09 AM »
1) so did the person who wrote the review of the book;

2) Lewrockwell will rot your brain.  Just say no.  You will thank me later.




I don't care much about Lew but Dr Williams has earned my respect. 

Some book reviewer with a book of his own to sell ?  And that title, Vindicating Lincoln: Defending the Ideals of Our Greatest President... ideals are what he's defending, maybe not the history itself ?  That swhat all the other Lincoln defenders had to do because the actual documented history is indefensible.

?


So read both and make up your own minds.


I'll pass on the Lewrockwell version thanks.   You clearly did not read the review I posted which details the "documented history" and how DiLorenzo failed on all marks in presenting it to support his argument.

Revisionist history is pretty much all Lewrockwell dabbles in.    Libertarians lost their grip on reality the day they signed on to their platform.    Really not impressed that Williams supports that drivel.


*edited to fix quote tags - DixieBelle*
« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 10:35:50 AM by DixieBelle »