The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: CG6468 on May 02, 2013, 10:12:56 AM
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PENTAGON MAY COURT MARTIAL SOLDIERS WHO SHARE CHRISTIAN FAITH
by KEN KLUKOWSKI 1 May 2013
The Pentagon has released a statement confirming that soldiers could be prosecuted for promoting their faith: "Religious proselytization is not permitted within the Department of Defense...Court martials and non-judicial punishments are decided on a case-by-case basis...â€.
The statement, released to Fox News, follows a Breitbart News report on Obama administration Pentagon appointees meeting with anti-Christian extremist Mikey Weinstein to develop court-martial procedures to punish Christians in the military who express or share their faith.
(From our earlier report: Weinstein is the head of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, and says Christians--including chaplains--sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ in the military are guilty of “treason,†and of committing an act of “spiritual rape†as serious a crime as “sexual assault.†He also asserted that Christians sharing their faith in the military are “enemies of the Constitution.â€)
Being convicted in a court martial means that a soldier has committed a crime under federal military law. Punishment for a court martial can include imprisonment and being dishonorably discharged from the military.
Our country is now officially communist (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/05/01/Breaking-Pentagon-Confirms-Will-Court-Martial-Soldiers-Who-Share-Christian-Faith)
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A sad day indeed if this means what I think it does.
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http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctliveblog/archives/2013/05/no-ban-on-military-evangelism-despite-conservative-fears.html
. all service members are free to exercise their constitutional right to practice their religion in a manner that is respectful of other individuals’ rights to follow their own belief systems; and in ways that are conducive to good order and discipline; and that do not detract from accomplishing the military mission.
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This essentially outlaws military chaplains too.
The military puts men and women in life and death situations. Faith is a very real thing for these soldiers. This is just another example of democrat intolerance.
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What do they call this ... the Anti-Christ regulation?
I guess this is the new "don't ask, don't tell".
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This is scary, especially for me.
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Since when does a member of the military have constitutional rights??
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There was a time when I would have thought a story like this was satire.
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There was a time when I would have thought a story like this was satire.
I know exactly what you mean.
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General Eisenhower's D-Day speech:
Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen of the Allied Expeditionary Force! You are about to embark upon a great crusade, toward which we have striven these many months. The eyes of the world are upon you. The hopes and prayers of liberty loving people everywhere march with you. In company with our brave Allies and brothers in arms on other fronts, you will bring about the destruction of the German war machine, the elimination of Nazi tyranny over the oppressed peoples of Europe, and security for ourselves in a free world.
Your task will not be an easy one. Your enemy is well trained, well equipped and battle hardened, he will fight savagely.
But this is the year 1944! Much has happened since the Nazi triumphs of 1940-41. The United Nations have inflicted upon the Germans great defeats, in open battle, man to man. Our air offensive has seriously reduced their strength in the air and their capacity to wage war on the ground. Our home fronts have given us an overwhelming superiority in weapons and munitions of war, and placed at our disposal great reserves of trained fighting men. The tide has turned! The free men of the world are marching together to victory!
I have full confidence in your courage, devotion to duty and skill in battle. We will accept nothing less than full victory!
Good Luck! And let us all beseech the blessings of Almighty God upon this great and noble undertaking.
Can Eisenhower be posthumously court-martialled?
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What do they call this ... the Anti-Christ regulation?
I guess this is the new "don't ask, don't tell".
Sure sounds like it. The First Amendment reversed. There is no good thing government can't destroy.
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This essentially outlaws military chaplains too.
what about imams and whatever the grand poobah is for wiccins? are they outlawed too or do they get a free pass?
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They will get a free pass. Obama wants a military without a conscience so they will only obey HIM. Lord O simply is not comfortable with a military that swears to defend the constitution.
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What do they call this ... the Anti-Christ regulation?
I guess this is the new "don't ask, don't tell".
Yup.....Gays and Transvestites come out of the closet and Christianity goes into the closet. :mad:
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what about imams and whatever the grand poobah is for wiccins? are they outlawed too or do they get a free pass?
Free Pass.
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Now the DOD is denying this. :???:
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Update...if you want to believe it...
http://thenewamerican.com/culture/faith-and-morals/item/15299-pentagon-changes-mind-says-soldiers-can-share-faith
Saturday, 04 May 2013 12:00
Pentagon Changes Mind, Says Soldiers Can Share Faith
Following an uproar over a Defense Department statement saying that military personnel could be court-martialed for sharing their faith, the Pentagon has backed down on that position and now says soldiers are free to proselytize, as long as they don't harass others. “Service members can share their faith,†clarified Navy Lieutenant Commander Nate Christensen in a statement, “but must not force unwanted, intrusive attempts to convert others of any faith or no faith to one's beliefs.â€
Earlier the Defense Department had released an alarming statement saying: “Religious proselytization is not permitted within the Department of Defense.... Court martials and non-judicial punishments are decided on a case-by-case basis.†That statement appeared to come as the result of an April 24 meeting between military officials and Mikey Weinstein of the atheist group Military Religious Freedom Foundation, in which Weinstein pressured Air Force officials to enforce a policy that supposedly bans Air Force personnel from openly expressing their religious faith. The Defense Department has reportedly turned to Weinstein's group to hammer out policies on religious expression in the military.
Weinstein has gained notoriety for his aggressive campaign to sanitize the military of overt faith expressions by service members. He told Fox News that “until the Air Force or Army or Navy or Marine Corps punishes a member of the military for unconstitutional religious proselytizing and oppression, we will never have the ability to stop this horrible, horrendous, dehumanizing behavior.†Weinstein was referring to examples of supposed religious persecution within the ranks, and said that his group “would love to see hundreds of prosecutions to stop this outrage of fundamentalist religious persecution.â€
The outcry from chaplains and religious leaders over Weinstein's rhetoric prompted the Defense Department to issue its updated statement backing down from implying that service members might be targeted for sharing their faith. According to Charisma News, the clarification came after the conservative legal advocacy group Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) filed a Freedom of Information Act request seeking a clarification from the Defense Department on the issue.
“Members of our military should not be denied the very freedoms they fight to defend,†explained ADF Legal Counsel Joseph La Rue. “Freedom of religion and speech are paramount among those freedoms.â€
La Rue noted that since there is little evidence of a crisis concerning overt religious proselytizing in the military, “we are still troubled over what motivated the original comments†from the Pentagon. He added that his group is seeking “to ensure that the Pentagon does not deny members of the armed services the basic freedoms that the Constitution guarantees all Americans.â€
In his updated statement Lieutenant Commander Christensen insisted that the Defense Department “has never and will never single out a particular religious group for persecution or prosecution. The Department makes reasonable accommodations for all religions and celebrates the religious diversity of our service members.†He added that “when religious harassment complaints are reported, commanders take action based on the gravity of the occurrence on a case by case basis.†He did not elaborate on the actions that might be taken, but the previous Defense Department statement seemed to indicate that penalties could range from non-judicial punishment to a full court-martial.
In an e-mail Christensen explained that the Defense Department would work “to ensure that all service members are free to exercise their constitutional right to practice their religion — in a manner that is respectful of other individuals’ rights to follow their own belief systems; and in ways that are conducive to good order and discipline; and that do not detract from accomplishing the military mission.â€
Nonetheless, at least one veteran military leader is concerned about a crackdown on religious expression among service members. Speaking at a gathering on Capitol Hill during the May 2 National Day of Prayer, Rear Admiral William Lee of the U.S. Coast Guard said he is convinced that there is an increasing effort to shut down expressions of faith throughout the military. “As one general so aptly put it,†Lee told his audience, “they expect us to check our religion in at the door — don’t bring that here. Leaders like myself are feeling the constraints of rules and regulations and guidance issued by lawyers that put us in a tighter and tighter box regarding our constitutional right to express our religious faith.â€
Lee recalled that in 2012 there were a record high number of 349 military suicides, and recalled the story of a young soldier who had attempted suicide but survived. “When I looked at that young man and heard his story, the rules say, 'Send him to the chaplain,’†Lee said. But “my heart said, 'give this man a Bible.'â€
The retired admiral pointed out that under changing military policy giving a soldier a Bible would be potentially punishable. He expressed his shock that an officer could now be reprimanded for “as much as whispering to a young man who is on his last hope — that there is hope. That I can just simply whisper, ‘here is the answer – take it home – I’ll talk about it if you want to.’â€
He noted that “the lawyers tell me that if I do that, I’m crossing the line,†but added that “I’m glad I’ve crossed the line so many times.â€
Don't believe this for a minute. Weinstein is still in charge. The policy only changed because the light of day was shone upon it. These policies will only go underground from here. Obama is out to destroy the military and remake it in his image. The evil will only increase from here on out.
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Update...if you want to believe it...
http://thenewamerican.com/culture/faith-and-morals/item/15299-pentagon-changes-mind-says-soldiers-can-share-faith
Saturday, 04 May 2013 12:00
Pentagon Changes Mind, Says Soldiers Can Share Faith
Don't believe this for a minute. Weinstein is still in charge. The policy only changed because the light of day was shone upon it. These policies will only go underground from here. Obama is out to destroy the military and remake it in his image. The evil will only increase from here on out.
I think it's obvious what they are doing. The military is the only thing standing in their way of totally "transforming" the country. They don't want conservative patriots in the military, only like minded useful idiots.
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what about imams and whatever the grand poobah is for wiccins? are they outlawed too or do they get a free pass?
It has to be real before it's a faith, so only Christianity is targeted. Mikey Weinstein made that very clear.
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It's not the beliefs, it's the the proselytizing that's the issue. Of course by the same token they should be taking every other proselytizing religion to task, but they aren't.
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Oh Bite my ASS.
Proselytizing never hurt anyone. All you have to do is walk away from one that is doing it if it offends you.
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Republicans will
protect the military and fight this tooth and nail.......go along with everything liberals want.
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Yup.....Gays and Transvestites come out of the closet and Christianity goes into the closet. :mad:
Sad but true
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Oh Bite my ASS.
Proselytizing never hurt anyone. All you have to do is walk away from one that is doing it if it offends you.
Yeah, bullshit. Easier said than done when it's the training cadre, a platoon sergeant, the first shirt, colonel, or general doing it, and I've seen all of those get stupid about it.
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I think it's obvious what they are doing. The military is the only thing standing in their way of totally "transforming" the country. They don't want conservative patriots in the military, only like minded useful idiots.
And that is why this administration has been doing everything it can since it took power to break the morale and spirit of the U.S. Military.
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Yeah, bullshit. Easier said than done when it's the training cadre, a platoon sergeant, the first shirt, colonel, or general doing it, and I've seen all of those get stupid about it.
Isolated incidents don't mean everyone in the military is doing it.
I've been in for way more than a minute in all kinds of areas and not once has anyone even tried to Proselytize to me...including a Brigade chaplain ordained by the Church of the Nazarene who I worked with on a daily basis.
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Isolated incidents don't mean everyone in the military is doing it.
Nobody said every Christian in the military was getting court-martialed either, but some folks here don't seem to be able to think that one through.
FWIW I've known several chaplains over the years, a couple of really great ones and a couple of terrible ones among them, none of them proselytized because they know better than that (One of the terrible ones was big on slandering other sects, but even that nutcase wasn't out proselytizing the troops). Based on my own experiences, I think the problem they were trying to address is laymen in leadership positions whose religious zeal gets the better of their judgment.
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When will swearing on the Bible be removed from courtrooms. Did anyone notice if Obama took his Oath on the Koran or Bible ???
Brings to mind that watching Court TV I cannot remember seeing any wittiness sworn in by any means.
Not even affirming they will tell the truth or breaking a plate.
The only swearing in on a Bible I can remember is the picture taken aboard Air Force One with Jackie covered in blood and LBJ being sworn in on the spot.
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Old Perry Mason episodes on TVLand notwithstanding, vesta, I swore in hundreds of people in court hearings (Military, civilian criminal, civilian civil, and administrative), over about thirty years and attended many other trials and hearings, even testified at a handful as well. While there was generally a Bible in the room, I never saw anyone actually use one for swearing in a witness.
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I often think about what I'm going to do. Obviously if I know someone is going to go out on a patrol I'm going to talk to them, but if they don't want to hear the Gospel I'm not going to curse them and throw my arms up and preach doom to them. I'll simply say something like "don't wait" or "let the Lord guide you" something to encourage them. Basically what I do now.
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I really have come to dislike the behavior of some Christians. They always want to apply their religious balm to everything. It confuses people and diverts them from the real issue. In my considered opinion the real issue here is something called the ENLISTMENT/REENLISTMENT DOCUMENT ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES.
If you are going to sign it you had better make sure you know what it say's. It gives the military complete control over your life, period. I am tired of these whiny ass soldiers who insist on crusading for their "rights" while on active duty. The only rights you have are what the military allows you to have. If you don't like it then get out and do your crusading elsewhere.
This moron Weinstein should be on the receiving end of a good old fashioned ass kicking. He is only lining his pockets and he is hurting the military.
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Yeah, bullshit. Easier said than done when it's the training cadre, a platoon sergeant, the first shirt, colonel, or general doing it, and I've seen all of those get stupid about it.
Whom has it ever harmed? OK, so it might be annoying, but it does no legitimate harm.
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The statement, released to Fox News, follows a Breitbart News report on Obama administration Pentagon appointees meeting with anti-Christian extremist Mikey Weinstein to develop court-martial procedures to punish Christians in the military who express or share their faith.
Sounds like it covers a wide range, would "God bless you" be an offense. :shrug:
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Whom has it ever harmed? OK, so it might be annoying, but it does no legitimate harm.
You obviously just don't get the compulsion aspect to it and the inherent corrosion of leadership integrity and impartiality, which is a problem whether the leader's pet rock is a religion, private organization membership, political affiliation, or any other thing that has no relevance to military mission or duties.
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You obviously just don't get the compulsion aspect to it and the inherent corrosion of leadership integrity and impartiality, which is a problem whether the leader's pet rock is a religion, private organization membership, political affiliation, or any other thing that has no relevance to military mission or duties.
I am not talking about those in leadership positions. I was thinking more along the lines of the average soldier just sharing his faith with his fellow soldiers.
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You obviously just don't get the compulsion aspect to it and the inherent corrosion of leadership integrity and impartiality, which is a problem whether the leader's pet rock is a religion, private organization membership, political affiliation, or any other thing that has no relevance to military mission or duties.
You mean like those seemingly never-ending membership drives for AUSA, 82nd Airborne Association (insert other divisions here), etc., that we have to actually REPORT membership numbers?
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Luckily for us, 68% of the military is made up of Christian, God-fearing, Good Ole' Boys from the Deep South. I was part of it for a decade in the US Army and nothing comforted me more than knowing that most of my cohorts, most of which had a funny southern accent, had learned to shoot by the ripe old age of six and always spoke their minds, regardless of political affiliation. They are still some of my best friends in the world. Referred to me as BillyYank or New York. Try court-martialing 68% of the military...I dare you. Grits is still the most popular breakfast side dish in the mess hall.
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Luckily for us, 68% of the military is made up of Christian, God-fearing, Good Ole' Boys from the Deep South. I was part of it for a decade in the US Army and nothing comforted me more than knowing that most of my cohorts, most of which had a funny southern accent, had learned to shoot by the ripe old age of six and always spoke their minds, regardless of political affiliation. They are still some of my best friends in the world. Referred to me as BillyYank or New York. Try court-martialing 68% of the military...I dare you. Grits is still the most popular breakfast side dish in the mess hall.
Funny I feel the same way.
About half the Marines I served with were from the North East and the other half from the deep south. I was born and raised in Pennsylvania but felt more comfortable with the southern boys, in fact felt more at home IN the south.........I still order grits for breakfast. :-)
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Weinstein.....sounds Jewish......so blame it on the joooooos.