This odd belief system that the republicans are responsible for the ACA clusterf

[Mary Ann]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023506449

Safetykitten (4,765 posts)   Wed Aug 21, 2013, 02:53 PM

Really?

I think that republicans are the scum of the earth, but this one? This ACA? We OWN IT.

We told you things like the UPS crap would happen, we told you that they would cut hours, we told you that parts would be delayed to suck up to big business.

The pro ACA gang here is now on another narrative. The "we meant to do that" plan. Now the UPS is the trigger to single payer.

Sad, just sad, and playing with people's lives.

Someone gets it.

[franksolich]

This is ancient history now, but remember back in 1993, with Hillarycare?

Remember that back in 1993-1995, the Democrats had both houses of Congress with a near veto-proof majority?

Remember that when Hillarycare finally withered away and died, the Republicans were blamed for it?

Remember that it was actually a Democrat congressman, a member of that vast majority, from Alphonse Capote Gore's home state who administered the coup de grace?

[cmypay]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023506449
Someone gets it.

Someone is not long for DU

[DumbAss Tanker]

Safetykitten said something that is actually provable and true, so s-he is doomed on DU.

[franksolich]

Safetykitten said something that is actually provable and true, so s-he is doomed on DU.

It's a monstrously large campfire, growing fast.

Egalitarian Thug (9,330 posts)    Wed Aug 21, 2013, 06:07 PM

152. You're overlooking the fact (or not) that ACA was not the only option, it was just the only option allowed by the Democratic Party leadership. This crap was predicted by virtually every health care group not profiting from the insurance scam, and they were vociferously shouted down and specifically excluded at every step along the way to implementing the Heritage Foundation's horrible plan to place insurance companies at the center of health care in America.
 
You've forgotten (or not) that Speaker Pelosi did everything in her power during the session previous to the President's election to keep any and all actual health care bills from even being discussed, going so far with HR. 676 as to actually block the CBO assessment from being done, once it was forced out of committee in spite of all her efforts to bury it.
 
And as time goes on, and as it gets worse and worse, the next excuse is going to be that the plan all along was to create a system so horrible that it will force us to implement an actual health care plan through.

[franksolich]

.....and now.....Ugly, she with the face like Hindenberg's!!!:

Warpy (70,865 posts)    Wed Aug 21, 2013, 03:01 PM

5. Yes, they're all running scared right now and the insurance companies are enjoying their final feast on the sick before the ACA kicks in.
 
HOWEVER, and it's a big one, all the work still needs to be done. Hospitals will see more patients instead of fewer and with more people working, companies will see more business.
 This is just a blip, an aberration because of the uncertainty of what change will bring. It's Chicken Little, screaming that the sky is falling and managing to shoo them all into whatever shelter part time employees can provide.
 
If people are made to work 15 minutes short of full time so companies can deny them benefits, that will be the first thing that is corrected.
 
It took many tweaks to refine Medicare. It will likely take as many to refine the ACA. Eventually, insurance giants will simply pull out of low profit markets and we'll get back door single payer.
 
For now, it's a blind panic as employers prepare themselves for the worst and will correct things when the worst doesn't happen, only the desertion of their best workers in favor of full time work.

[jukin]

When you have an IQ of less than 80 the world boils down to two things:

1. Democrats are always good.
2. Republicans are always bad.

That is why the democrats that opposed the civil rights bill are deified and the republicans that opposed the cACA bill will be vilified. I got hunski that says if you ask 100 DUchebags what party fought against slavery they would tell you the democrat party and call you a racist when you proved it was the republican party.

It's an evil cult mindset that i now know can only be fixed by fire.

[franksolich]

tridim (41,686 posts)    Wed Aug 21, 2013, 05:28 PM

139. Dude, you should read the law. It's obvious you haven't.

Travis_0004 (1,187 posts)    Wed Aug 21, 2013, 06:04 PM

151. You know who else didn't read the law. . . .

Congress.

[Skul]

.....and now.....Ugly, she with the face like Hindenberg's!!!:

With a face like that, perhaps it, needs to go down in flames. 

Casualty free, of course.

[Mary Ann]

This is ancient history now, but remember back in 1993, with Hillarycare?

Remember that back in 1993-1995, the Democrats had both houses of Congress with a near veto-proof majority?

Remember that when Hillarycare finally withered away and died, the Republicans were blamed for it?

Remember that it was actually a Democrat congressman, a member of that vast majority, from Alphonse Capote Gore's home state who administered the coup de grace?

Okay, I know this isn't the forum for this, but, heck, I'm on my second glass of wine, and I'm going to say what I want in my own thread.

I blame the Republicans for this whole Obamacare mess.

Hillarycare was resoundingly defeated by the voters, who returned the House and the Senate to the Republicans for the first time since the Jurassic era, or somesuch, by such an overwhelming margin that it wasn't funny.

Their FIRST order of business ought to have been tackling the healthcare mess. Because it is a mess.

I feel that I'm something of an expert on this, as I have had to access the healthcare system for serious conditions numerous times. When I had cancer at age 30, we had the most wonderful coverage you can imagine. In the year that I had three surgeries, including one major surgery, obstetric care, normal newborn care, normal well-child care, and all of the unforeseen things that can happen to a normal family with two small children, we paid $5.00 out of pocket, and that was because I forgot to pack a pair of slippers when I went to the hospital.

Furthermore, our premium was very affordable. Low premiums plus no worries about medical bills meant I could be a stay-at-home mom, we could buy a house, have two cars, etc. Life was good.

I often thought about how much more difficult things would have been if we had had to take into account thousands of $$ in medical bills while we were trying to budget. Or, worse, having to prioritize cancer treatment vs. the other expenses normal young families have. I shudder to think what the decisions would have been, had they been based on affordability rather than necessity.

So, anyway, with a huge majority in both houses of Congress, the Republicans could have come up with solid, market-based solutions that would have provided adequate, affordable coverage for everyone. Ideally, IMHO, it would have included a co-pay for EVERYONE, regardless of income, because EVERYONE should have to weigh whether that sliver in the finger is really bad enough to justify an ER visity.  It would also have included tort reform. Had they come up with a workable plan that would have solved the crisis, there never would have been an Obama. The Republicans would probably have had a solid majority for a hundred years.

Anyway, my glass is empty, so I think I will go refill it.
 

[Duke Nukum]

When you have an IQ of less than 80 the world boils down to two things:

1. Democrats are always good.
2. Republicans are always bad.

That is why the democrats that opposed the civil rights bill are deified and the republicans that opposed the cACA bill will be vilified. I got hunski that says if you ask 100 DUchebags what party fought against slavery they would tell you the democrat party and call you a racist when you proved it was the republican party.

It's an evil cult mindset that i now know can only be fixed by fire.

Brilliant! I will quote you later!

[Skul]

Okay, I know this isn't the forum for this, but, heck, I'm on my second glass of wine, and I'm going to say what I want in my own thread.

I blame the Republicans for this whole Obamacare mess.

Hillarycare was resoundingly defeated by the voters, who returned the House and the Senate to the Republicans for the first time since the Jurassic era, or somesuch, by such an overwhelming margin that it wasn't funny.

Their FIRST order of business ought to have been tackling the healthcare mess. Because it is a mess.

I feel that I'm something of an expert on this, as I have had to access the healthcare system for serious conditions numerous times. When I had cancer at age 30, we had the most wonderful coverage you can imagine. In the year that I had three surgeries, including one major surgery, obstetric care, normal newborn care, normal well-child care, and all of the unforeseen things that can happen to a normal family with two small children, we paid $5.00 out of pocket, and that was because I forgot to pack a pair of slippers when I went to the hospital.

Furthermore, our premium was very affordable. Low premiums plus no worries about medical bills meant I could be a stay-at-home mom, we could buy a house, have two cars, etc. Life was good.
I often thought about how much more difficult things would have been if we had had to take into account thousands of $$ in medical bills while we were trying to budget. Or, worse, having to prioritize cancer treatment vs. the other expenses normal young families have. I shudder to think what the decisions would have been, had they been based on affordability rather than necessity.

So, anyway, with a huge majority in both houses of Congress, the Republicans could have come up with solid, market-based solutions that would have provided adequate, affordable coverage for everyone. Ideally, IMHO, it would have included a co-pay for EVERYONE, regardless of income, because EVERYONE should have to weigh whether that sliver in the finger is really bad enough to justify an ER visity.  It would also have included tort reform. Had they come up with a workable plan that would have solved the crisis, there never would have been an Obama. The Republicans would probably have had a solid majority for a hundred years.

Anyway, my glass is empty, so I think I will go refill it.

From what you described, the old system worked for you. It worked perfectly. What did I miss that was bad?
See the bolded parts?  Under ombumacare, you pay more. Much more.
Your issue with Republicans is what?
Let me quote you.... "we paid $5.00 out of pocket, and that was because I forgot to pack a pair of slippers when I went to the hospital."
Five bucks?  Take your own slippers next time.

[Big Dog]

Okay, I know this isn't the forum for this, but, heck, I'm on my second glass of wine, and I'm going to say what I want in my own thread.

I blame the Republicans for this whole Obamacare mess.

So, anyway, with a huge majority in both houses of Congress, the Republicans could have come up with solid, market-based solutions that would have provided adequate, affordable coverage for everyone. Ideally, IMHO, it would have included a co-pay for EVERYONE, regardless of income, because EVERYONE should have to weigh whether that sliver in the finger is really bad enough to justify an ER visity.  It would also have included tort reform. Had they come up with a workable plan that would have solved the crisis, there never would have been an Obama. The Republicans would probably have had a solid majority for a hundred years.

Anyway, my glass is empty, so I think I will go refill it.

Mary Ann,

Do you understand that the government can't really make "market-based solutions" for the healthcare industry (when the government controls the market, we call it "fascism"), and any solution the government would implement will crash the economy?

Here are the options:

1. Price fixing. Would result in closing of hospitals and clinics, desperate shortages of doctors, and degradation of the quality of care- like we are beginning to see in the Obamaconomy.

2. Obamacare (forced insurance coverage): an economic boa constrictor around the throat of the working man. Doctors don't want to be slaves.

3. Nationalized health care: Health care by the lowest bidder. Check out the Indian Health Service and the VA for the benchmark of quality of nationalized health care.

Health care costs are high because of government intrusion and insurance. Self-pay patients are charged less than insured in every part of the health care system.

[Mary Ann]

From what you described, the old system worked for you. It worked perfectly. What did I miss that was bad?
See the bolded parts?  Under ombumacare, you pay more. Much more.
Your issue with Republicans is what?
Let me quote you.... "we paid $5.00 out of pocket, and that was because I forgot to pack a pair of slippers when I went to the hospital."
Five bucks?  Take your own slippers next time.

Of course i'm saying the old system worked for me. It should have worked that well for everyone. But there are far too many people who have to forego necessary care because of cost, or go bankrupt because of cost, or make tough choices because of cost. My point is that there are ways to solve those problems via the free market. The Republicans had the opportunity, and squandered it, opening the door to Jughead. The Democrats had learned some lessons from the 94 midterms, and they didn't waste the opportunity they had. They knew what they had to do to get that monstrosity passed--deals, "deeming" the bill passed, etc.

BTW, I'm not complaining about having to pay the $5 for the slippers. It was an oversight in packing. (You pack for major surgery, including a 10-day hospital stay, AND get a 1-month old baby and a 2-year old packed and ready to spend a month or more at Grandma's and see if you don't forget a thing or two.)

[Skul]

Mary Ann,

Do you understand that the government can't really make "market-based solutions" for the healthcare industry (when the government controls the market, we call it "fascism"), and any solution the government would implement will crash the economy?

Here are the options:

1. Price fixing. Would result in closing of hospitals and clinics, desperate shortages of doctors, and degradation of the quality of care- like we are beginning to see in the Obamaconomy.

2. Obamacare (forced insurance coverage): an economic boa constrictor around the throat of the working man. Doctors don't want to be slaves.

3. Nationalized health care: Health care by the lowest bidder. Check out the Indian Health Service and the VA for the benchmark of quality of nationalized health care.

Health care costs are high because of government intrusion and insurance. Self-pay patients are charged less than insured in every part of the health care system.

It wasn't your response that caught the eye, rather what you highlighted. It needs to be mentioned again.

Republicans could have come up with solid, market-based solutions that would have provided adequate, affordable coverage for everyone

Which of course leads to this quote..

we paid $5.00 out of pocket, and that was because I forgot to pack a pair of slippers when I went to the hospital.

Perhaps tax payers should pay for that.

[Mary Ann]

Do you understand that the government can't really make "market-based solutions" for the healthcare industry (when the government controls the market, we call it "fascism"), and any solution the government would implement will crash the economy?

There are things that can be done politically to create an environment in which those options are more attractive to companies to offer their employees, through tax breaks and other incentives, LESS governmental control in terms of allowing insurance to be sold across state lines, tort reform.  

There are things that can be done far, far short of fascism.

I'm no socialist, and this Obamacare thing scares the heck out of me, and makes me sick. I also know that my family has been fortunate to have had the benefits that we have--and that has nothing to do with being smart or hardworking or anything else. We were just lucky. The illness I had could have bankrupted us. Or caused us to have to make other unpleasant choices. The difference between us, and a family that has been destroyed by a serious illness is the capriciousness of fate. That ought to scare everyone.

[Mary Ann]

Perhaps tax payers should pay for that.

I don't know why you think the taxpayers should pay for that, since I've never thought that.

[Skul]

There are things that can be done politically to create an environment in which those options are more attractive to companies to offer their employees, through tax breaks and other incentives, LESS governmental control in terms of allowing insurance to be sold across state lines, tort reform.  

There are things that can be done far, far short of fascism.

I'm no socialist, and this Obamacare thing scares the heck out of me, and makes me sick. I also know that my family has been fortunate to have had the benefits that we have--and that has nothing to do with being smart or hardworking or anything else. We were just lucky. The illness I had could have bankrupted us. Or caused us to have to make other unpleasant choices. The difference between us, and a family that has been destroyed by a serious illness is the capriciousness of fate. That ought to scare everyone.

This is the Republicans fault?  I don't understand.
You've had minimal cost and now Conservatives are at fault for this?
Might have been born yesterday, but, it was really early in the morning.

[Carl]

A little off the beaten path but I have engaged with more then a couple that think if Ocare is a disaster there is some sort of automatic trigger for single payer that kicks in.

[miskie]

Hey Kids! I'm Aca The Albratross ! Mind if I hang around for awhile ?

[Carl]

There are things that can be done politically to create an environment in which those options are more attractive to companies to offer their employees, through tax breaks and other incentives, LESS governmental control in terms of allowing insurance to be sold across state lines, tort reform.  

There are things that can be done far, far short of fascism.

I'm no socialist, and this Obamacare thing scares the heck out of me, and makes me sick. I also know that my family has been fortunate to have had the benefits that we have--and that has nothing to do with being smart or hardworking or anything else. We were just lucky. The illness I had could have bankrupted us. Or caused us to have to make other unpleasant choices. The difference between us, and a family that has been destroyed by a serious illness is the capriciousness of fate. That ought to scare everyone.

The hard reality of life is that nothing bad can be perfectly prevented.
Yes,sometimes it is heart breaking and by all human reckoning "unfair".
It will never ever change the fact that there are circumstances beyond anyones control and a decent population does what it willingly can to mitigate the suffering because true compassion just does that.

It is a whole different world apart from forced dependency and extortion to sprinkle on some in order to secure power.

[Big Dog]

There are things that can be done politically to create an environment in which those options are more attractive to companies to offer their employees, through tax breaks and other incentives, LESS governmental control in terms of allowing insurance to be sold across state lines, tort reform.  

Mary Ann, you are talking about things which are the province of the states, not the Federal government.

Malpractice suits are filed in state courts; "tort reform" would have to happen in the 50 state legislatures.

Insurance sales from state to state are also not the Federal government's business. The reason you can't buy an Alabama insurance policy in Alaska is because the insurance company isn't registered in Alaska- not because of anything the Federal government allows or prohibits. Kaiser Permanente sells health insurance all over the country, because it is registered to sell insurance all over the country.

And I don't see what kind of tax breaks and incentives you are talking about. Who gets a tax break, and for what?

[Mary Ann]

I'm not complaining about the care I got or what it cost. I am saying that I can u.derstand why others are unhappy about our system and where it could leave them if the unthinkable should happen
. And it certainly did represent an opportunity for the republicans to take the lead on this issue.