Is a shift to socialism inevitable?

[afterdark]

I am new here, just need some insight into a discussion from last night.
In summary, someone (a solid right of center moderate, similar to myself) presented a theory that the eventual socialization of the United States is inevitable as American society "evolves". Europe was cited as an example. He claimed that capitalism will eventually destroy itself  here in the US. As we all know, the majority of the voting population (<50%) increasingly view the mid to upper middle-class and wealthier (who comprise roughly the top ~20% of earners in the USA) as privileged. People in the bottom 80% increasingly view themselves as oppressed, disadvantaged, poor, unfairly treated, and generally stuck. Regardless of their drive, laziness, capability, etc...these people make up the majority now, no matter how we look at it. They continue to drift towards the left, and their socialist ideals. They have the voting numbers. They are jealous. They feel a general sense of entitlement.
I have previously had similar thoughts on the subject, simply from a logical/mathematical perspective.
How can this be overcome? Are we F-ed regardless? Is an increasingly socialized society inevitable?

[Bad Dog]

You will have to wait a few minutes until Vesta gets up.  Please be patient, we are here to help you.

While we're waiting, how do you feel about Ron Paul?

[txradioguy]

You will have to wait a few minutes until Vesta gets up.  Please be patient, we are here to help you.

While we're waiting, how do you feel about Ron Paul?

A shift towards Socialism is only inevitable if people don't stand up to the people trying to impose it on us.

[Dori]

How can this be overcome? Are we F-ed regardless? Is an increasingly socialized society inevitable?

I will only last until it all implodes.  Socialist policies are destructive and immoral and irrational.

[Carl]

Short answer is no...long answer will depend on whether the boiling frog wakes up and starts voting.

[Freeper]

The noob has a point, the number of Obamaphone voters has grown, and continues to grow, so there is a real danger that more socialists will be elected. We have to fight harder than we ever have before in order to vote in people who will protect freedom and not hand out more freebies to the Obamaphone crowd.

[Dori]

We have to fight harder than we ever have before in order to vote in people who will protect freedom and not hand out more freebies to the Obamaphone crowd.

Kind of hard to get your message out, when the left owns the media, schools, etc. and is better at getting out the vote.

The R's are more interested in fighting with each other.

[biersmythe]

You might find that you will get more responses to your post if you give an introduction thread first....Forum > The Bar > Introductions & Subsequent Welcomes. At the least you "might" get a warmer reception.

[Freeper]

Kind of hard to get your message out, when the left owns the media, schools, etc. and is better at getting out the vote.

The R's are more interested in fighting with each other.

All valid points.

[Purple Sage]

Kind of hard to get your message out, when the left owns the media, schools, etc. and is better at getting out the vote.

The R's are more interested in fighting with each other.

Exactly.  I believe we are going to become a socialist country if not worse.  Not so much due to the DUmmies, but due to our own stupidity.  About 15% of Conservatives will not vote unless they get everything their way, usually single issue voters.  Their way isn't going to happen; thus they are happy destroying the country thinking they are doing the right thing.  When this group would rather have a Muslim than deign to vote for a foul Mormon for example, it speaks volumes.  (Yes, Romeny sucked, but anyone was better than the 0.)

To succeed we must ban together to get the best we can that represents the majority.  All for one and one for all… and all that rot.  Sometimes I think it is moles putting this garbage in Conservative's heads to get them to stay home on election day.  Others, I realize we are nuttier than those on the DUmp to cut off our noses to spite our faces.

Stick a fork in us.  We're done.

[BlueStateSaint]

Exactly.  I believe we are going to become a socialist country if not worse.  Not so much due to the DUmmies, but due to our own stupidity.  About 15% of Conservatives will not vote unless they get everything their way, usually single issue voters.  Their way isn't going to happen; thus they are happy destroying the country thinking they are doing the right thing.  When this group would rather have a Muslim than deign to vote for a foul Mormon for example, it speaks volumes.  (Yes, Romeny sucked, but anyone was better than the 0.)

To succeed we must ban together to get the best we can that represents the majority.  All for one and one for all… and all that rot.  Sometimes I think it is moles putting this garbage in Conservative's heads to get them to stay home on election day.  Others, I realize we are nuttier than those on the DUmp to cut off our noses to spite our faces.

Stick a fork in us.  We're done.

That will happen, in a perfectly bad world.

This world is anything but perfect.  All sorts of variables may come up--the nuclear 'surrender' to the Iranians markedly increases the chances of a nuclear war in the Middle East.  The Saudis are buying Pakistani nukes, the Jordanians and Egyptians will want them soon (they're probably in touch with A.Q. Khan as I type this), and let's remember that the Libyans had the beginnings of a nuclear program.  Add to that "the Un" in NoKo, the Chinese-Japanese/Taiwanese/Korean spat (which the Aussies seem to have an interest in), and the Russians wanting everyone to bow to them,the reemergence of a Socialist group of nations in South America, and the future is anything but certain.

[afterdark]

Ron Paul was just a just a big distraction.
His conservative ideas outweighed his crazy ideas, and he would have been a much better choice over BHO. But all he ever did was pull votes away from the establishment, as did Ross Perot.

You will have to wait a few minutes until Vesta gets up.  Please be patient, we are here to help you.

While we're waiting, how do you feel about Ron Paul?

[DumbAss Tanker]

As many philosophers, economists, and historians have observed, when the majority realize the popular vote can be a vehicle to plunder the public treasury and use it to transfer wealth to themselves, the process of doing so is inexorable and irresistible in a democratic form of government.  Sadly, we have entered that phase.

There will be a day of reckoning for this irresponsible but irresistible impulse, but for now it will get worse with periodic swings to rationality when the government oversteps the trend by imposing the punitive effects of Socialism on the majority, as is the case with Obamacare.  Still, the long-term trend is to the bad side.  It's a trend that leads to either total collapse of the democratic forms into a dictatorship that realigns revenue, benefits, and economic viability (Chile post-Allende) - or a creeping ineffectiveness combined with an insatiable demand for revenue that renders the State an international nullity in perpetual economic doldrums (Modern Italy). 

[Big Dog]

I am new here, just need some insight into a discussion from last night.
In summary, someone (a solid right of center moderate, similar to myself) presented a theory that the eventual socialization of the United States is inevitable as American society "evolves". Europe was cited as an example. He claimed that capitalism will eventually destroy itself  here in the US. As we all know, the majority of the voting population (<50%) increasingly view the mid to upper middle-class and wealthier (who comprise roughly the top ~20% of earners in the USA) as privileged. People in the bottom 80% increasingly view themselves as oppressed, disadvantaged, poor, unfairly treated, and generally stuck. Regardless of their drive, laziness, capability, etc...these people make up the majority now, no matter how we look at it. They continue to drift towards the left, and their socialist ideals. They have the voting numbers. They are jealous. They feel a general sense of entitlement.
I have previously had similar thoughts on the subject, simply from a logical/mathematical perspective.
How can this be overcome? Are we F-ed regardless? Is an increasingly socialized society inevitable?

The answer can be found in four words:

"Who is John Galt?"

[DumbAss Tanker]

The answer can be found in four words:

"Who is John Galt?"

Yep.  Or as the Pittstain might say, "Pew.  Pew.  Pew."

[NHSparky]

Oh, the country might tinker with it for a while, until the people who thought they were getting free sparkly unicorns just end up with a handful of horseshit.

[Eupher]

We have a markedly short-sighted populace that continues to look at Europe as the "model to beat all models" -- this despite all of the economic catastrophes illustrated by Greece, Ireland, Spain, et. al.

How ANYBODY in this country could think that Europe has the answers to our problems is a complete mystery to me.

I think I need to research the entire "skittle-shitting pony" meme....

[freedumb2003b]

I am new here, just need some insight into a discussion from last night.
In summary, someone (a solid right of center moderate, similar to myself) presented a theory that the eventual socialization of the United States is inevitable as American society "evolves". Europe was cited as an example. He claimed that capitalism will eventually destroy itself  here in the US. As we all know, the majority of the voting population (<50%) increasingly view the mid to upper middle-class and wealthier (who comprise roughly the top ~20% of earners in the USA) as privileged. People in the bottom 80% increasingly view themselves as oppressed, disadvantaged, poor, unfairly treated, and generally stuck. Regardless of their drive, laziness, capability, etc...these people make up the majority now, no matter how we look at it. They continue to drift towards the left, and their socialist ideals. They have the voting numbers. They are jealous. They feel a general sense of entitlement.
I have previously had similar thoughts on the subject, simply from a logical/mathematical perspective.
How can this be overcome? Are we F-ed regardless? Is an increasingly socialized society inevitable?

I am going with Tytler here.  This quote has been attributed to others but the important thing its accuracy (emphasis added):

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over lousy fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average of the world's great civilizations before they decline has been 200 years. These nations have progressed in this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; from faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to Complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependency; from dependency back again to bondage.

Guess which cycle we are in?

To put it another way: When one must rob Peter to pay Paul, one can be assured of Paul's support (origin lost to the mists of time).

[biersmythe]

We have a markedly short-sighted populace that continues to look at Europe as the "model to beat all models" -- this despite all of the economic catastrophes illustrated by Greece, Ireland, Spain, et. al.

How ANYBODY in this country could think that Europe has the answers to our problems is a complete mystery to me.

I think I need to research the entire "skittle-shitting pony" meme....

HI5 Yes I can't tell you how many DUmmies I have talked to that have said to me "look at Europe". I know  European's ( Dutch ,French, German,English,Belgian ..and some Americans that lived in Portugal ) yes for the lurking DUmmies that would be peeps that LIVE or LIVED in Europe, they say  its not what its cracked up to be. So Go F**k yourself!

[biersmythe]

I am going with Tytler here.  This quote has been attributed to others but the important thing its accuracy (emphasis added):

Guess which cycle we are in?

To put it another way: When one must rob Peter to pay Paul, one can be assured of Paul's support (origin lost to the mists of time).

Nope Peter shot Paul and the robbers...well thats what I will do.

[freedumb2003b]

Nope Peter shot Paul and the robbers...well thats what I will do.

Hmmm.. maybe a new quote "shooting Paul to pay Peter."

Up there with my other new favourite quote: "Moron-enabled."

[NHSparky]

We have a markedly short-sighted populace that continues to look at Europe as the "model to beat all models" -- this despite all of the economic catastrophes illustrated by Greece, Ireland, Spain, et. al.

How ANYBODY in this country could think that Europe has the answers to our problems is a complete mystery to me.

I think I need to research the entire "skittle-shitting pony" meme....

They THINK it because the MSM/DNC (but I repeat myself) has TOLD them what to think.  Most Americans don't see the day-to-day lives of most Euros.  They get this rosy picture of something like western Germany; decent wages, modern, etc., not realizing that German cities (and most of Europe, for that matter) is expensive as HELL.  I knew a guy when I was in the Navy who ended up with orders to London--he saw how much he would be getting in COLA and thought he was getting a great deal, until he looked at the cost of living there.

I've never been stationed there, but I'm sure that TRG and you could give excellent examples of just how hard it would be to live off the economy would be if you're making what the locals make.  I know what costs were like in Japan, Korea, etc., and there's no way in hell I'd want to live that kind of lifestyle.

[txradioguy]

His conservative ideas outweighed his crazy ideas,

You've got that backwards n00b.

and he would have been a much better choice over BHO.

It's a draw.  Both would have been equally destructive to our way of life as we know it. 

[obumazombie]

Yep.  Or as the Pittstain might say, "Pew.  Pew.  Pew."

That's only 3 words, but equally or more powerful.

[JohnnyReb]

Is a shift to socialism inevitable? ...Yes, as long as there is a DUmmie left alive...OR...as long as some form of capitalism survives to finance socialism.

One has to die and we know which one is being attacked by the socialism disease.