I've changed my mind.

[Chris_]

No actually it isn't.   If you followed the Kerry excommunication discussions back in 2004 you would see where the Vatican stands on this specific issue.   It is not your place, or my place for that matter, to make judgement on a Catholic's status with their religion or Church.   That applies to Kennedy and Kerry also.   

She is pro-choice, that If is between here and her parish as to her standing in the Church.   If the Catholic religion had an all or nothing mandate they would have pretty much no members.   Anywhere.   The Catholic religion allowed practicing gays priests to perform mass did they not?   

No, it is.  As I said, Catholicism IS an "all or nothing" doctrine.  Skirting the issues doesn't change the underlying fundamentals.  You are arguing de jure and I am arguing de facto.

And please, O Please, provide a link where the Vatican has acknowledged gay priests, much less allowed them to perform mass.

Gay pedophile priests being moved from church to church, ring any bells at all?   Nah, the Vatican had no knowledge of that.  Riiight.

Oh and I guess that there is probably a few dozen or so "real" Catholics in the world then. 

I said acknowledged.  You really don't understand my argument.  And you really don't know your Catechism.

[mamacags]

We need a new forum called The Crusades I think.

[DixieBelle]

Yes, this Welcome thread has taken some rather interesting turns.

[Chris_]

We need a new forum called The Crusades I think. :evillaugh:

[formerlurker]

No actually it isn't.   If you followed the Kerry excommunication discussions back in 2004 you would see where the Vatican stands on this specific issue.   It is not your place, or my place for that matter, to make judgement on a Catholic's status with their religion or Church.   That applies to Kennedy and Kerry also.   

She is pro-choice, that If is between here and her parish as to her standing in the Church.   If the Catholic religion had an all or nothing mandate they would have pretty much no members.   Anywhere.   The Catholic religion allowed practicing gays priests to perform mass did they not?   

No, it is.  As I said, Catholicism IS an "all or nothing" doctrine.  Skirting the issues doesn't change the underlying fundamentals.  You are arguing de jure and I am arguing de facto.

And please, O Please, provide a link where the Vatican has acknowledged gay priests, much less allowed them to perform mass.

Gay pedophile priests being moved from church to church, ring any bells at all?   Nah, the Vatican had no knowledge of that.  Riiight.

Oh and I guess that there is probably a few dozen or so "real" Catholics in the world then. 

I said acknowledged.  You really don't understand my argument.  And you really don't know your Catechism.

 


Next.

[VivisMom]

We need a new forum called The Crusades I think.

OOOH! OOOH!!! I want to mod it! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeease??????

I'm a nice Catholic girl. 

[Lanie]

No actually it isn't.   If you followed the Kerry excommunication discussions back in 2004 you would see where the Vatican stands on this specific issue.   It is not your place, or my place for that matter, to make judgement on a Catholic's status with their religion or Church.   That applies to Kennedy and Kerry also.   

She is pro-choice, that If is between here and her parish as to her standing in the Church.   If the Catholic religion had an all or nothing mandate they would have pretty much no members.   Anywhere.   The Catholic religion allowed practicing gays priests to perform mass did they not?   

No, it is.  As I said, Catholicism IS an "all or nothing" doctrine.  Skirting the issues doesn't change the underlying fundamentals.  You are arguing de jure and I am arguing de facto.

And please, O Please, provide a link where the Vatican has acknowledged gay priests, much less allowed them to perform mass.

Gay pedophile priests being moved from church to church, ring any bells at all?   Nah, the Vatican had no knowledge of that.  Riiight.

Oh and I guess that there is probably a few dozen or so "real" Catholics in the world then. 

Being gay and being a pedophile are two different things.

Homosexuality is about attraction toward the same gender.

Pedophilia is about attraction toward kids.

Not the same.

[Lanie]

We need a new forum called The Crusades I think.

OOOH! OOOH!!! I want to mod it! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeease??????

I'm a nice Catholic girl. 

Your avatar's cute.

[CactusCarlos]

Being gay and being a pedophile are two different things.

Homosexuality is about attraction toward the same gender.

Pedophilia is about attraction toward kids.

Not the same.

The priests (male) molested boys or did they molest girls?

[Lanie]

Being gay and being a pedophile are two different things.

Homosexuality is about attraction toward the same gender.

Pedophilia is about attraction toward kids.

Not the same.

The priests (male) molested boys or did they molest girls?

I think it was all or mostly boys. However, the bible says a case looks legit until somebody else examines it. So let me try it.

Some experts think molestors are fixated at an early point of child development and that some are in a form of regression.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/HTML/facts_molestation.html

Perpetrators in the first category – those with a more or less exclusive interest in children – have been labeled fixated. Fixation means "a temporary or permanent arrestment of psychological maturation resulting from unresolved formative issues which persist and underlie the organization of subsequent phases of development" (Groth & Birnbaum, 1978, p. 176).

Regressed offenders have developed an adult sexual orientation but under certain conditions (such as extreme stress) they return to an earlier, less mature psychological state and engage in sexual contact with children.

Using the fixated-regressed distinction, Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated;" 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterosexuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bisexuals. Of the last group, Groth and Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in sex on occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this attraction to men exceed their preference for women....There were no men who were primarily sexually attracted to other adult males..." (p.180).

So heterosexuals are getting convicted of this far more often.

http://www.minddisorders.com/Ob-Ps/Pedophilia.html

Some researchers attribute pedophilia to arrested emotional development; that is, the pedophile is attracted to children because he or she has never matured psychologically. Some regard pedophilia as the result of a distorted need to dominate a sexual partner. Since children are smaller and usually weaker than adults, they may be regarded as nonthreatening potential partners. This drive for domination is sometimes thought to explain why most pedophiles are males.

What could this possibly have to do with being attracted to the same gender? Nothing that I can tell.

More info, including that a lot of pedophiles are married.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/pedophiles/7.html

So most who are convicted of this are heterosexual, many of them are married, and the characteristics do not have anything to do with gender preference.

[Rebel]

Damn, I don't think I've ever seen a welcome thread turn political.

Homosexuals do not =  pedophiles. To suggest such is asinine. There are many pedo's out there that have wives and families. They're still f'n douche bags who should be tapped in the forehead with a f'n .45ACP.

[Lord Undies]

If they are having sex with other males, regardless of the age of the other male, they are homosexuals.  All the psychobabble in the world can't change the act into something it is not.    

There is no such thing as "bisexual", BTW.  They're just queers who sometimes have sex with correct sex.

[CactusCarlos]

If they are having sex with other males, regardless of the age of the other male, they are homosexuals.  All the psychobabble in the world can't change the act into something it is not.    

Thank you Undies, well said.

[RobJohnson]

To briefly answer the other person's question. I asked my RCIA director about my liberal beliefs and she said to stick with RCIA. Then I confessed to a priest who wasn't concerned about it (although he did tell me I had the wrong idea about gay rights). I confessed my liberal beliefs to a second priest, who said it wasn't a sin. I then confessed to a third priest who then asked if I had done it. I said I had not. He said that we're allowed to disagree regarding political ideas (sort of going toward the idea that the guilty party is those personally involved). Then I confessed to skipping church one week and he got all over me (so it's not like he was afraid to speak up). I realize there might come a point when a priest or somebody above his head tries to get me to stop being pro-choice. I figure I'll cross that bridge if I get to it. I think if I show my respect to authority in church that I probably won't be pushed to change this very often.

What a load of shit, quit stinking up the place.

[Schadenfreude]

Welcome.

[Lanie]

To briefly answer the other person's question. I asked my RCIA director about my liberal beliefs and she said to stick with RCIA. Then I confessed to a priest who wasn't concerned about it (although he did tell me I had the wrong idea about gay rights). I confessed my liberal beliefs to a second priest, who said it wasn't a sin. I then confessed to a third priest who then asked if I had done it. I said I had not. He said that we're allowed to disagree regarding political ideas (sort of going toward the idea that the guilty party is those personally involved). Then I confessed to skipping church one week and he got all over me (so it's not like he was afraid to speak up). I realize there might come a point when a priest or somebody above his head tries to get me to stop being pro-choice. I figure I'll cross that bridge if I get to it. I think if I show my respect to authority in church that I probably won't be pushed to change this very often.

What a load of shit, quit stinking up the place.

You think I lied? If so, I'd be happy to let you meet him so he can give you an earfull too (after getting to know you of course).

[RobJohnson]

You think I lied? If so, I'd be happy to let you meet him so he can give you an earfull too (after getting to know you of course).

Well at least you know your liberal beliefs are wrong and felt the need to confess them......TWICE.   

[Lanie]

You think I lied? If so, I'd be happy to let you meet him so he can give you an earfull too (after getting to know you of course).

Well at least you know your liberal beliefs are wrong and felt the need to confess them......TWICE.   

Three times.

I didn't say they were wrong. I just know that abortion and homosexual marriage goes against the Catholic church. It's good to be upfront with the priests about it. I didn't want to feel like I was sneaking into the church.

The Catechism also says that we need to treat homosexuals with respect.

(runs).

lol.

[RobJohnson]

The Catechism also says that we need to treat homosexuals with respect.

(runs).

lol.

Yeah, love the sinner and not the sin.....

[Lanie]

The Catechism also says that we need to treat homosexuals with respect.

(runs).

lol.

Yeah, love the sinner and not the sin.....

[formerlurker]

No actually it isn't.   If you followed the Kerry excommunication discussions back in 2004 you would see where the Vatican stands on this specific issue.   It is not your place, or my place for that matter, to make judgement on a Catholic's status with their religion or Church.   That applies to Kennedy and Kerry also.   

She is pro-choice, that If is between here and her parish as to her standing in the Church.   If the Catholic religion had an all or nothing mandate they would have pretty much no members.   Anywhere.   The Catholic religion allowed practicing gays priests to perform mass did they not?   

No, it is.  As I said, Catholicism IS an "all or nothing" doctrine.  Skirting the issues doesn't change the underlying fundamentals.  You are arguing de jure and I am arguing de facto.

And please, O Please, provide a link where the Vatican has acknowledged gay priests, much less allowed them to perform mass.

Gay pedophile priests being moved from church to church, ring any bells at all?   Nah, the Vatican had no knowledge of that.  Riiight.

Oh and I guess that there is probably a few dozen or so "real" Catholics in the world then. 

Being gay and being a pedophile are two different things.

Homosexuality is about attraction toward the same gender.

Pedophilia is about attraction toward kids.

Not the same.

They are both.

[VivisMom]

We need a new forum called The Crusades I think.

OOOH! OOOH!!! I want to mod it! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeease??????

I'm a nice Catholic girl. 

Your avatar's cute.

Isn't she a doll? That's my baby on her first birthday. 

(I'm a very proud mommy, in case you can't tell.)

And just to jump in on this gay priests/pedophilia bandwagon...not all pedophile priests are gay. A pastor at a church here in DC was accused of molesting girls, and he admitted to it. So one cannot make a sweeping generalization that all pedophile priests are gay.

SECOND: There are gay seminarians. I knew several in college-and yes, I went to a Catholic college, WITH a seminary across the street. Many of them were closeted to everyone but themselves, and my suspicion is that they entered the priesthood as a way to convince themselves that they could be good Catholics and serve their God without succumbing to the homosexual lifestyle that the Church forbids. Now some seminaries accept and tolerate openly gay priests (St. Mary's in Baltimore, Theological College in DC, and Notre Dame among them) but the Church has stated that this is NOT acceptable. Why the American bishops see fit to disregard rulings from Rome is beyond me. Anyway, the Church has a stated policy on the difference between homosexuals and the homosexual lifestyle. Gay is OK! Just don't go committing sodomy.

THIRD: When John Kerry or any of the Kennedys has the gall to openly disregard the rules and tenets of the faith that they claim to adhere to, it behooves the Church to excommunicate them. Why this wasn't done is beyond me. Especially since these are people who are very public, very vocal figures. Every time one of them takes Communion, it just galls me. You can go ahead and disagree, but to do so very blatantly and then disregard the Church's order to cease receiving Communion is just beyond the pale.

ETA some links:

http://www.tldm.org/News5/seminaries.htm I'm kinda iffy on this website, but they have a  good article on the seminaries that accept gay priests.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-te.md.issues13jul13,0,7727631.story Story from the Baltimore Sun about 'The Pink Palace.'

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

THIRD: When John Kerry or any of the Kennedys has the gall to openly disregard the rules and tenets of the faith that they claim to adhere to, it behooves the Church to excommunicate them. Why this wasn't done is beyond me. Especially since these are people who are very public, very vocal figures. Every time one of them takes Communion, it just galls me. You can go ahead and disagree, but to do so very blatantly and then disregard the Church's order to cease receiving Communion is just beyond the pale.

VM While I agree with your opinion on both of those families. If the Catholic church were to just start excommunicating people for being "cafeteria catholics" there wouldn't be much of a church left here in the US. The majority of catholics in this country do not follow the churches doctrine to the letter.

[Chris_]

THIRD: When John Kerry or any of the Kennedys has the gall to openly disregard the rules and tenets of the faith that they claim to adhere to, it behooves the Church to excommunicate them. Why this wasn't done is beyond me. Especially since these are people who are very public, very vocal figures. Every time one of them takes Communion, it just galls me. You can go ahead and disagree, but to do so very blatantly and then disregard the Church's order to cease receiving Communion is just beyond the pale.

VM While I agree with your opinion on both of those families. If the Catholic church were to just start excommunicating people for being "cafeteria catholics" there wouldn't be much of a church left here in the US. The majority of catholics in this country do not follow the churches doctrine to the letter.

Better to sacrifice your principles for a larger congregation. 

Makes sense.

Just one question: If you (anyone) don't agree with Catholicism, why (pretend to) be a Catholic?

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

THIRD: When John Kerry or any of the Kennedys has the gall to openly disregard the rules and tenets of the faith that they claim to adhere to, it behooves the Church to excommunicate them. Why this wasn't done is beyond me. Especially since these are people who are very public, very vocal figures. Every time one of them takes Communion, it just galls me. You can go ahead and disagree, but to do so very blatantly and then disregard the Church's order to cease receiving Communion is just beyond the pale.

VM While I agree with your opinion on both of those families. If the Catholic church were to just start excommunicating people for being "cafeteria catholics" there wouldn't be much of a church left here in the US. The majority of catholics in this country do not follow the churches doctrine to the letter.

Better to sacrifice your principles for a larger congregation. 

Makes sense.

Just one question: If you (anyone) don't agree with Catholicism, why (pretend to) be a Catholic?

Free, I don't necessarily think it's a matter of not agreeing with the church,more so that people are imperfect and fail at it on occasion. You mentioned being catholic at one time. Did you always follow the doctrine to the letter? If so then you are rare in this country. I also believe that when it comes to faith some people really lean on the tradition of it all. Picking and choosing the doctrine based on what they agree with. Freewill.....it is a bitch!