DU: Bring Back the Draft!(ALL NADS-ALL THE TIME!!!)

[dutch508]

I have been saying this for years.

Thu Apr 17, 2014, 04:33 PM
AcertainLiz (524 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024835516

I think the US needs a Mandatory service requir. for citizens
Last edited Thu Apr 17, 2014, 07:19 PM - Edit history (1)

I've brought this up before and some told me to make a thread on this, so I will. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but oh well. I think that upon turning 18, every citizen, and even every permanent resident perhaps, should have to do some service for a year or two. I do think our military should be more based on conscription than total volunteer, because that would go along ways to preventing militarism and addressing inequalities in the military (such as mostly just the poor serving) but at the same time, I think people who are truly conscientious objectors or can't make it for some reason should have to do some sort of civil service, kind of like what Germany had until recently. I know most will disagree with the concept here, but I'd like to get everyones opinions and start a discussion anyway.

Btw, preferably I'd have the military be the default service, but some system to allow CO's to serve civil service, but all would have to go through some sort of boot camp, basic training and all would have to do some service for the nation.

Obvious RWTroll...

nadinbrzezinski (132,857 posts)
2. We should, not just the military

the Civilian Conservation Corp would be a great place too.

It is simple, we are losing a sense of community. That is one way to recover it.

As to the military, the brass opposes it even more than civilians. The military though is increasingly a praetorian guard and there are dangers in that which most Americans do not understand.

nadinbrzezinski (132,857 posts)
68. At 18 a kid reports to a center

where their choices would be based on current manpower and woman power needs in national service departments. That said, it cannot be only two years. That is not enough for military service to be worth a damn. By the time you are done training they are done. And the old WW II Bootcamp (which was shortened) does not work in the modern military. So a service of three years would be good.

This gives you time to train these kids in fire service, or military service, or for that matter any medical technical field, or even road work.

People here oppose it because of the abuses of Vietnam, and there were many. Ironically the brass does not want it for the same reason. It was those draftees that made life impossible for the professional soldiers. They were not afraid for their careers.

There is another reason why industry fears a draftee force. You see, it used to be that draftees did things like KP, for pennies. These days that is done by Halliburton. They also used to man supply chains in CONUS, guess who does it these days. That is another reason to have a draftee military, and return al these support services back to the military.

Another way to implement this, which is done in Mexico, is those kids who want to go to college, fine go to college, but a requirement to get your degree is a year of public service. Yup, you finish college and you go do a year as a TA, dentist assistant, what have you. Kids here would scream if they required to do something before joining the workforce, but that helps to set a sense of community.

I do not expect this to happen in this country without a huge culture change though, so this is truly navel gazing. Right now we are living a great culture of me, I and what matters only to myself. Public service would help correct that, but that won't happen.

It's not like nadin is coming up with something new- this is the Russian system, the old Soviet system, and the system used by the Czars...

nadinbrzezinski (132,857 posts)
92. Yup, you need officers

ROTC.

If you want to do college first, uncle Sam has this great program... and we know you will love it. We pay for it, but you will owe us not four, but eight years as an officer. (Which is what we are currently doing anyway)

Realize though, I am not just saying military. We need roads to build, disadvantaged communities to serve, and all that. Kids could serve as part of a County Fire Service, including a fire academy. Upon finishing services, they would have the skills to work with a fire department. The track would be instead of volunteers doing their time, people doing their national service doing their time and able to apply for a career.

As to the Mexican system, it has serious issues with implementation, but every college graduate, from both private and public schools has to do a year of servicio social, and Mexico still has a draft (even if they go do close order drill on Saturdays and mostly do public works. That lasts for a year and it is lottery based.)

Americans are just allergic to the concept, and it is cultural. It will not happen, ever. (Or at least until we have a massive change in the culture and I have no idea what will bring that change about)

nadinbrzezinski (132,857 posts)
102. You go into the service, as an E-3 and owe uncle sam for college

which is also happens right now.

The only way you can get out of that requirement is if you get injured and all that. In cases like that uncle sam pays for the college degree and excuses you from your obligations.

Israel is also a good model to look at, but the officer corp in the US would severely object. Officers in the IDF come from the top 10% of senior NCOs, and are invited into ROTC. Senior Field officers have college degrees, but many junior Officers do not. And to be honest, to lead a platoon you do not need a ring...

nadinbrzezinski (132,857 posts)
139. I served ten years

as a medic in Tijuana, a few of them actually as a commissioned officer. I saw it as a way to pay back the country that let my dad in (with shirt on back that's it) after the Holocaust. I am still friends with a few of those people. We lost a few to a heart attack and diabetes too.

So when I hear people throw hissy fits, I know why they are, but I also know they are enabling the rise of a praetorian guard.

Wait... has the Nadin ever claimed to be an officer before?

nadinbrzezinski (132,857 posts)
149. I grew up in Mexico

and the Red Cross, until the civil war started, was part of the army reserve going all the way back to WW II. And people who were COs served in the Red Cross instead. Why I know the options should be there.

The Red Cross in Mexico not only does disaster services. In fact, the heavy lift is done by ambulance services and trauma centers.

AND THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is how you molel surf. Well done, sir. Well done.

  
 
  
 

 

[Dori]

(dump reaction) 

[RayRaytheSBS]

There is only one reason I would be opposed to a draft army. Taking everyone does not make a better force to win the nation's wars, which is what the military is SUPPOSED to do as mandated by the constitution.

Only 10% of the high school graduates meet the requirement s to even go to basic training. So now you are forcing the military to take the other 90% of special little snowflakes out there. And contrary to what society says, not everyone is created equally.

I don't care about the civil service side. If you want kids to do 2 years in Americorps, fine. But don't f*%k with the military standards any more than they already have. This bullshit about a praetorian guard is ridiculous. The Military is being used and abused by this administration for political gains, and it sickens me. Rant done, I'm off the soapbox.

[Mr Mannn]

The democrats are the party of slavery and they never stopped. They've re-enslaved the urban blacks to the addiction of free money (crumbs, really) handed down by the benevolent Rat party.

Now they desire enforced servitude of the population as a whole. Why do you need a boot camp for Americorps? Indoctrination and punishment for those who do not tow the party line.
*** this is one of those times the DUmmies reveal the underlying tyranny the left has in store for us.

Democrats are hell bent to create a totalitarian govt. The problem I see is the class of takers they have created...why work, when you get money for free? When the bloody purge begins, the DUmmies will be the very first to go.

[JohnnyReb]

If the new military had more stylish uniforms and a nice selection of shoes, they wouldn't need a draft.....the pretty boys would flood the recruiter.

[Mr Mannn]

let me add one more thing. Do you really want you volunteer county fire dept manned by a group of disinterested, unmotivated kids (just there to kill time for their service requirement to expire)?

Do you want uneducated, professional criminals from Chicago's gangland using the mandatory service as a cover to gain trusted access to high school children as a part of community service?

The Rats have no care if people die or are raped. All they want is power.

[FlippyDoo]

Right now we are living a great culture of me, I and what matters only to myself.

And she doesn't mean that metaphorically. She actually means she views it as a culture of nadin and what matters only to nadin.

[BlueStateSaint]

let me add one more thing. Do you really want you volunteer county fire dept manned by a group of disinterested, unmotivated kids (just there to kill time for their service requirement to expire)?

Do you want uneducated, professional criminals from Chicago's gangland using the mandatory service as a cover to gain trusted access to high school children as a part of community service?

The Rats have no care if people die or are raped. All they want is power.

The bolded . . . 

[GOP Congress]

When the government follows its constitutional edict and actually DEFENDS this country, which includes PREPARATION and PREVENTION, then it will automatically create the incentives in the first place to create the army. That is precisely what Reagan did when he increased the military, and along with economic growth and international trade, beat the Soviet Union without firing a shot.

When a country does NOT prepare for its defense, the void is filled by outside forces, which leads to escalations and finally confrontations, which in turn lead to MORE escalation, until finally we find ourselves short and suddenly have to draft people. This is INTOLERABLE in a properly-run constitutional republic. Even a constitutional DEMOCRACY would prepare for its self-defense.

So I am vehemently against a draft, but I am even MORE vehemently for providing a strong defense. During a long stretch, we were the world's lone superpower; now we aren't that super any more. That only breeds confrontation; more importantly, it breeds a desire to eliminate democracy, let alone republicanism, as the social construct that has proven its worth for over two centuries.

Sorry to get on a high horse, but damn it! I'm f*$$*#g TIRED of the socialist scumsuckers from telling us what **WE*** ***MUST*** ***DO*** to ***HELP*** the country. Screw their destructive, murderous sorry asses!

[Big Dog]

nadinbrzezinski (132,857 posts)
149. I grew up in Mexico

and the Red Cross, until the civil war started, was part of the army reserve going all the way back to WW II. And people who were COs served in the Red Cross instead. Why I know the options should be there.

The Red Cross in Mexico not only does disaster services. In fact, the heavy lift is done by ambulance services and trauma centers.

gNads is a lying sack of shit.

"on February 21, 1910, a presidential decree recognized the Red Cross, but made it an auxiliary of the Army. In 1919, it was recognized by the International Red Cross and received a charter in 1923. Since then, the organization has been prohibited from accepting any financial aid from any government agency. It is financed by private donations only. It also severed its ties with the Army."  Source: http://www.vallartatoday.com/cruz-roja-mexicana-mexican-red-cross

The Cruz Roja Mexicana has not been an auxiliary of the Mexican Army since 1923, when it received its charter as part of the International Red Cross.

[miskie]

gNads is a lying sack of shit.

"on February 21, 1910, a presidential decree recognized the Red Cross, but made it an auxiliary of the Army. In 1919, it was recognized by the International Red Cross and received a charter in 1923. Since then, the organization has been prohibited from accepting any financial aid from any government agency. It is financed by private donations only. It also severed its ties with the Army."  Source: http://www.vallartatoday.com/cruz-roja-mexicana-mexican-red-cross

The Cruz Roja Mexicana has not been an auxiliary of the Mexican Army since 1923, when it received its charter as part of the International Red Cross.

Now wait -

I wouldn't get too hasty. If you look at Nads resume, you'll see that she has clocked in at least a few lifetimes worth of employment. She claims to have come from Mexico, yet she sounds like Natasha from Rocky & Bullwinkle. I hate to say this, but she might be a vampire.

[Big Dog]

Now wait -

I wouldn't get too hasty. If you look at Nads resume, you'll see that she has clocked in at least a few lifetimes worth of employment. She claims to have come from Mexico, yet she sounds like Natasha from Rocky & Bullwinkle. I hate to say this, but she might be a vampire.

OK, you got me there.

[Airwolf]

There's no way she typed that by her fat lonesome self. Not one misspelling in the lot and it makes sense in the normal day to day postings of an average posting. I don't agree with drafting everyone and she never served in the military of any country but she may have been a Packled from Star Trek: The Next Generation at one time.

[USA4ME]

nadinbrzezinski

Another way to implement this, which is done in Mexico, is those kids who want to go to college, fine go to college, but a requirement to get your degree is a year of public service. Yup, you finish college and you go do a year as a TA, dentist assistant, what have you. Kids here would scream if they required to do something before joining the workforce, but that helps to set a sense of community.

When I think of Mexico, and especially of those who attended college there, the first thing that comes to mind is their "sense of community."

.

[98ZJUSMC]

let me add one more thing. Do you really want you volunteer county fire dept manned by a group of disinterested, unmotivated kids (just there to kill time for their service requirement to expire)?

Exactly.

Fantasy:

The (D)Ullards all assume that it would look just like a Soviet propaganda poster, full of eager draftees, all pulling together for the common good of.....

Reality:

...sitting around, rolling spliffs, writing banal poems on the walls, and just marking time as disinterested and COMPLETELY UNTRAINED bodies in the way.

-------

You know, Blob, if the shit in Mexico is so A number huckin' 1, why are you here?  I mean, you were an officer, right?

OK, I can't type that with a straight face.....

[DumbAss Tanker]

The last thing the US military needs is to become a baby-sitting service for the iPad generation.  There is so much training time wasted on social education now, even with kids who actually wanted to be there in the first place, that imposing this sort of system would greatly reduce military effectiveness while vastly increasing the cost of the military payroll budget (Giving Libs plenty of ammunition to bitch about 'Increased military spending' for something the military doesn't actually want).

Conscription is an artifact of mass casualty wars.  Nowadays if a commander were to lose an aircraft full of assault troops to enemy action, it'd be on the news for a week and his career would be toast.  It's not the kind of warfare or military force structure requirement that conscription affects in any positive way.

Militarism?  It is to laugh.  The military can take anything that sounds like it would be cool, from shooting machineguns to sailing on a ship to combatives, and turn it into a pain-in-the-ass ordeal.  Having multiple sources of commissioning, instead of relying on one choke point like the service academies, for a majority of the leaders who become the senior leaders helps to control the institutional problem, although the ring-knockers keep trying to screw that up.  The troops still come from demographics that aren't into blindly following authority and do take their oaths seriously, which is the other side of balance sheet in the military that would control any possible excesses that might occur to any ring-knocking Patricians.