More Catholic hate.
Star Member Binkie The Clown (7,162 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215540420
The Catholic church, already losing members like mad, decides to kick out a whole bunch more members
https://www.yahoo.com/news/catholic-bishops-vote-draft-communion-181141171.html
Catholic Bishops Vote to Draft Communion Guidelines that Could Exclude Abortion Proponents
The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops voted to create draft guidelines on the meaning of Communion that could eventually bar people who express support for abortion from receiving the Eucharist.
The proposal to draft the guidelines passed a 168-55 vote on Friday during an annual spring meeting of the conference, held virtually this year because of the coronavirus pandemic. Bishops engaged in discussion on whether to include a statement on the church’s teaching on abortion in the guidelines for receiving Communion.
“The eyes of the whole country are on us. If we don’t act courageously, clearly and convincingly on this core Catholic value, how can we expect to be taken seriously on another matter?” San Francisco Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone said in comments reported by the Washington Post.
Old white men vote against the younger members yet again. They will have nobody to blame but themselves when they become a tiny remnant of a once widespread religion.
Star Member MagickMuffin (11,798 posts)
1. Could someone please point me to the passage in the Bible where it discusses abortion?
I don't recall ever seeing such a passage.
Meanwhile it is fine and dandy for these bishops to grope on the alter boys and protect each other in the process.
Hey old white bishops, STAY OUT OF WOMEN'S REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH. We don't need your interference.
Jeremiah 1:5
Verse Concepts
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
And before you were born I consecrated you;
I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
Exodus 21:22-25
“If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,read more.
Psalm 139:13-16
For You formed my inward parts;
You wove me in my mother’s womb.
I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Wonderful are Your works,
And my soul knows it very well.
My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth;
read more.
Exodus 20:13
Verse Concepts
“You shall not murder.
Genesis 1:27
Verse Concepts
God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Hosea 13:16
Verse Concepts
Samaria will be held guilty,
For she has rebelled against her God.
They will fall by the sword,
Their little ones will be dashed in pieces,
And their pregnant women will be ripped open.
Isaiah 49:1
Verse Concepts
Listen to Me, O islands,
And pay attention, you peoples from afar.
The Lord called Me from the womb;
From the body of My mother He named Me.
Genesis 2:7
Verse Concepts
Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
Luke 1:43-44
And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me? For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy.
Numbers 12:12
Verse Concepts
Oh, do not let her be like one dead, whose flesh is half eaten away when he comes from his mother’s womb!”
Job 10:8-12
‘Your hands fashioned and made me altogether,
And would You destroy me?
‘Remember now, that You have made me as clay;
And would You turn me into dust again?
‘Did You not pour me out like milk
And curdle me like cheese;
read more.
Psalm 139:16
Verse Concepts
Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.
Job 31:15
Verse Concepts
“Did not He who made me in the womb make him,
And the same one fashion us in the womb?
Deuteronomy 30:19
Verse Concepts
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
Amos 1:13
Verse Concepts
Thus says the Lord,
“For three transgressions of the sons of Ammon and for four
I will not revoke its punishment,
Because they ripped open the pregnant women of Gilead
In order to enlarge their borders.
Job 3:3
Verse Concepts
“Let the day perish on which I was to be born,
And the night which said, ‘A boy is conceived.’
Psalm 22:9-10
Yet You are He who brought me forth from the womb;
You made me trust when upon my mother’s breasts.
Upon You I was cast from birth;
You have been my God from my mother’s womb.
Genesis 9:6
Verse Concepts
“Whoever sheds man’s blood,
By man his blood shall be shed,
For in the image of God
He made man.
Job 3:16
Verse Concepts
“Or like a miscarriage which is discarded, I would not be,
As infants that never saw light.
Psalm 127:3
Verse Concepts
Behold, children are a gift of the Lord,
The fruit of the womb is a reward.
Deuteronomy 5:17
Verse Concepts
‘You shall not murder.
Isaiah 44:24
Verse Concepts
Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb,
“I, the Lord, am the maker of all things,
Stretching out the heavens by Myself
And spreading out the earth all alone,
Isaiah 44:2
Verse Concepts
Thus says the Lord who made you
And formed you from the womb, who will help you,
‘Do not fear, O Jacob My servant;
And you Jeshurun whom I have chosen.
Romans 1:28-29
And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
2 Kings 19:3
Verse Concepts
They said to him, “Thus says Hezekiah, ‘This day is a day of distress, rebuke, and rejection; for children have come to birth and there is no strength to deliver.
Ruth 1:11
Verse Concepts
But Naomi said, “Return, my daughters. Why should you go with me? Have I yet sons in my womb, that they may be your husbands?
Proverbs 6:16-17
There are six things which the Lord hates,
Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:
Haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
And hands that shed innocent blood,
1 Corinthians 15:8
Verse Concepts
and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.
Source:
https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/AbortionSympthsical (1,267 posts)
3. It's about the taking of life, i.e. "Do not kill"
(Note: I'm an ex-Catholic and staunchly pro-choice. Just laying out answers).
The Catholic Church believes that life begins at conception. Once egg meets sperm, that's an individual life. An abortion is taking that life. There's a lot more theology and philosophy behind it all, and you can get lost in the weeds if you read too far. But that's more or less the crux of it.
Caliman73 (7,976 posts)
17. Agreed. Plus Catholicism is not Bible based like many Protestant denominations.
What people do not seem to understand is that Catholicism is based on Apostolic tradition as well as the Bible. Catholicism imbues the Pope with infallibility when discussing spiritual and dogmatic concepts so the abortion thing is not about it being in the Bible or not. It is from Encyclical letters.
Within the context of the Bible, before Jesus ascended into heaven he made Peter, the Rock upon which the church was founded. Essentially Peter was the first Pope. Supposedly what Peter and the Church founders held upon earth, would be held in Heaven, meaning that the rules that were made by the Pope and Church leadership were recognized in Heaven.
Of course there were critics of that doctrine, which created the basis for the Protestant Reformation.
I would not be sad if the Church disappeared or made themselves irrelevant. Catholicism served me well for a time, but I too have moved past the need for that kind of structure and belief system.
Star Member TheBlackAdder (20,805 posts)
32. But life doesn't start until the first breath. And causing a miscarriage results in a fine.
Star Member marybourg (9,968 posts)
63. They only started believing that life begins at conception, when it became evident that Catholics were not reproducing in sufficient numbers to maintain the Catholic clergy in the manner to which they had become accustomed. To justify condemning birth control and abortion, it was necessary to “ believe” that life began at conception.
Willis88 (5 posts)
70. That's a load of malarkey
Not just Catholicism but Muslims too I believe have beliefs that a pregnant women represents two lives. It’s a central theme going back to the birth of Christ at least.
I do think abortion os a choice, and it’s a choice I promise myself not to use, but I don’t see why I should enforce my beliefs on everyone else.
Sympthsical (1,267 posts)
86. That's just really not true
There's a whole history there, including verses in the Bible, theology, philosophy, eschatology, etc.
For example, Aristotle had a lot to say about ensoulment (when we gain souls), and one stage of it included an embryo. An embryo was considered to have a kind of "sleeping" soul. These ideas are not at all recent. They literally go back millennia and were much discussed among the educated religious throughout the Middle Ages. A lot of Greek and Roman philosophy continued on into the Western Catholic canon.
So when life begins, when are we ensouled. It's all there in Catholic theology and has been for a very, very, very long time.
Sympthsical (1,267 posts)
2. Withholding Eucharist isn't "kicking out"
There are all kinds of reasons you're not supposed to take communion. Divorce is a big one. Not having gone to confession or living with a mortal sin for which you have not said an act of contrition.
This n' that.
It's pretty ignored by most parishioners. It's not like priests can read your mind. I remember, some years back, my aunt's ex-husband showed up at a funeral. He basically cheated on her and dumped her for a much younger woman. When he went up to take communion, my father just about blew a gasket.
Honestly, outside of media-highlighted cases, no one's going to notice much or care. It's not a huge change from what is already in place.
Star Member GumboYaYa (5,784 posts)
4. The Catholic Church is a child molester protection racket....
Who cares what they say. They should be shut down for the generations of child abuse they covered up and the many molesters they protected.
Star Member DFW (42,850 posts)
19. There the guy who's got religion'll tell you if your sin's original
If it is, try playing it safer
Drink the wine and chew the wafer…..
Star Member Corgigal (8,334 posts)
34. They wouldn't even
allow a baptism for my newborn, because it was with my second husband. Who I’m still married to over 30 years later.
They can Kiss my ass. Bunch of old male fools.
janterry (3,930 posts)
48. This is not a change to doctrine in the least
This was ALWAYS doctrine. This is being reported on as if it is something new. It is not. No Catholic who aids or supports or encourages or whatever an abortion is supposed to receive communion. It is a grave sin. The bishops are just clarifying the catechism of the church.
If you facilitate or help or support or whatever an abortion you are not allowed communion. The thing they are discussing is whether the Bishop should step in and let a communicant know the church teaching and tell them they have been excommunicated.
A practicing catholic is not supposed to go to communion of their own accord - because they have gravely sinned. They have effectively been excommunicated ALREADY (latae sententiae excommunication).
https://catechism.cc/articles/abortion-excommunication.htm
I was raised Catholic. This has always been church teaching.
Star Member empedocles (12,499 posts)
102. My friend who was a Catholic deacon, and became a priest, reported that
some years ago, that the seminaries were getting angry, right wing types.
