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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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S. S. Feminist runs aground; captain caught dressing as a woman to escape
« on: January 17, 2012, 03:22:47 PM »
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AngryAmish (18,529 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

What do you think of the notion of "women and children first" during a disaster?
When the Italian cruise ship ran aground there were reports that men pushed past women and children (and other men) to get at the lifeboats.

I can understand the notion of children first but is there room in our society prioritizing one sex over another during a disaster?


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HappyMe (2,459 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

2. First come, first served basis would be fair.

I hope I never have to find out. Thread killer for hire. Reasonable rates.
 
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Response to HappyMe (Reply #2)
Tue Jan 17, 2012, 02:30 PM
 RZM (3,998 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

30. Isn't the point of women and children first to avoid that

Men are more physically powerful and can force their way through a crowd better than women and children can (obviously there are exceptions).

Remind me again why we're supposed to have women in combat.

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Response to RZM (Reply #30)
Tue Jan 17, 2012, 02:54 PM
 HappyMe (2,459 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

50. I'm going on the assumption that there is 1 spot available

on the life boats per person. And also that the captain isn't a bonehead.

I personally would not get on a life boat without my love. I also don't believe that the men are all going to shove everyone out of the way.

Except there are reports from the Italian liner disaster of jusst this sort of break down in civilized order.

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arcane1 (17,282 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

3. It makes sense to me...

especially in a HUGE disaster. Quite simply, it's easier to repopulate with a high ratio of women to men than it would be if it were the other way around. 

Even in our Brave New World the penalty for bigamy will be: 2 wives

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hlthe2b (38,529 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

7. I can see why that whole notion would be taken as quaint and totally out of step...

Last edited Tue Jan 17, 2012, 02:12 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

I really can..

And then I think of how often I have seen linebacker-sized men step all over small, short, or elderly women (and men)--in this case totally oblivious to what is around them, rather than intentionally trying to trample them. with that in mind, though, I'd have to think on this a bit longer. Surely many women will hold their own in such situation and I most certainly do not intend to imply women needed to be treated like children. Nonetheless, maybe we take gender out of it and suggest that children and the "less able" are given some assistance?

Surely those with superior body strength or related (which is most often men) ought to help the others. At least in my idea of the "ideal" world. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana
 
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Response to AngryAmish (Original post)
Tue Jan 17, 2012, 02:09 PM
 ChairmanAgnostic (22,386 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

8. Overboard with them! Every Man for HimSelf!

My Bible Tells me . . . . er . . . oh, oops, there I go again, channeling my inner Tea Bagger.

For all the bible beating and claims of being god fearin' christianists, they sure seem to miss all the big lessons. If I read my two part fairy tale correctly, (and I have gone through it cover to cover several times) then that water walking dude told the faithful flock NOT to keep religion on their sleeves and to forget about preying in public. I guess that the real JC, if he even existed, was anti-Tebow.


As for your real question, historically, childbirth was truly a life and death matter. More kids died than survived, and the childbirth was often fatal to the mom. If a tribe wanted to survive, having breeders and the young spawn of their tribe survive was critical to the tribe's future.


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mike_c (29,868 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

14. in an emergency evacuation ANY systemic approach is better than chaos....

However, by the same token, any systemic approach prioritizes one group over another. That's just the nature of the beast.



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intaglio (2,889 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

25. No reason but ...

One sex using physical mass and strength to bully the other sex is a non starter.

The act of placing women and children first is called the Birkenhead Drill because of the actions of the soldiers during the sinking of HMS Birkenhead in 1852 and has never been a part of maritime law. Somerset Maugham the writer was known to say that he preferred sailing on foreign ships because there was "none of that nonsense about women and children first."

Possibly the apotheosis of the drill was during the sinking of the Titanic which resulted in 74% of women and 52% of the children being saved against only 20% of the men


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Lance_Boyle (5,525 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

28. Gender bias in action, or at least in policy - this is an inequality the feminists won't target.

Look - people are even rationalizing it in their responses. "Men are more powerful and need to help out." "Women are more important in terms of repopulating society." "I'm a real man and I'd *never* save myself over a woman who needed saving!" 

 
And then coming in from the Don't Get Me SZtarted files:

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Snake Alchemist (375 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

37. Women, children, elderly, and disabled.

What type of society are we becoming when these aren't the first priority. 
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Response to Snake Alchemist (Reply #37)
Tue Jan 17, 2012, 03:03 PM
 lumberjack_jeff (20,095 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

56. Equal?

A society in which the captain can be a woman should also be a society in which the other able-bodied adult passengers should be considered equally valuable.
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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #56)
Tue Jan 17, 2012, 03:05 PM
Snake Alchemist (375 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

57. I look at it as a form of affirmative action.

Do you want men climbing over women, children, and the infirm?
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Response to Snake Alchemist (Reply #57)
Tue Jan 17, 2012, 03:10 PM
 lumberjack_jeff (20,095 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

60. Affirmative action involves correcting injustices of the past.

70% of the titanic survivors were women.
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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #60)
Tue Jan 17, 2012, 03:34 PM
Snake Alchemist (375 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

76. So you think that percentage is too high?

So you would be for identical physical fitness tests for men and women?
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Response to Snake Alchemist (Reply #76)
Tue Jan 17, 2012, 03:49 PM
 lumberjack_jeff (20,095 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

84. For identical jobs? Yes.

Would you give different tests to applicants for the bar exam to mitigate for women's superior language proficiency?
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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #84)
Tue Jan 17, 2012, 03:51 PM
Snake Alchemist (375 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

86. Why should they be different at all?

If a woman can't do 10 push-ups in gym, she fails. 

From your lips to The Pentagon's ears.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002180276#post2
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: S. S. Feminist runs aground; captain caught dressing as a woman to escape
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2012, 03:29:36 PM »
Quote from: SGT Snuggle Bunny on January 17, 2012, 03:22:47 PM
Even in our Brave New World the penalty for bigamy will be: 2 wives

H5!

 :cheersmate:
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Offline delilahmused

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Re: S. S. Feminist runs aground; captain caught dressing as a woman to escape
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2012, 03:33:17 PM »
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Response to AngryAmish (Original post)
Tue Jan 17, 2012, 02:09 PM
 ChairmanAgnostic (22,386 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

8. Overboard with them! Every Man for HimSelf!

My Bible Tells me . . . . er . . . oh, oops, there I go again, channeling my inner Tea Bagger.

For all the bible beating and claims of being god fearin' christianists, they sure seem to miss all the big lessons. If I read my two part fairy tale correctly, (and I have gone through it cover to cover several times) then that water walking dude told the faithful flock NOT to keep religion on their sleeves and to forget about preying in public. I guess that the real JC, if he even existed, was anti-Tebow.


As for your real question, historically, childbirth was truly a life and death matter. More kids died than survived, and the childbirth was often fatal to the mom. If a tribe wanted to survive, having breeders and the young spawn of their tribe survive was critical to the tribe's future.

What the hell does that have to do with anything? Were there an overwhelming majority of Christian males who jumped ship and left the women and children flailing about on a sinking ship or is this just another one of it's "I'm profound, I read the children's Bible back in Sunday School so I know more than people who read it every day. Oh, and every person who attends a tea party rally is a Christian so I'm smarter than them too! So there!", declarations of superiority to impress the other DUmmies?

Cindie
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Offline Rebel

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Re: S. S. Feminist runs aground; captain caught dressing as a woman to escape
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2012, 03:41:52 PM »
Hey, DUmbasses, the reason it's "women and children first" is because men are the stronger of the two sexes and are better equipped to fend for themselves. Also, so the children still have a nurturer. I know this biological FACT is uncomfortable to you, but deal with it. Matter of fact, there are are a lot of uncomfortable facts you idiots need to deal with.
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Offline shadeaux

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Re: S. S. Feminist runs aground; captain caught dressing as a woman to escape
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2012, 03:58:10 PM »
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If I read my two part fairy tale correctly, (and I have gone through it cover to cover several times) then that water walking dude told the faithful flock NOT to keep religion on their sleeves and to forget about preying in public. I guess that the real JC, if he even existed, was anti-Tebow.


It's PRAYING Mr. Reader of the Bible.   :whatever:

Let's just say God don't punish but hopefully he gets even.  Mock away, stay out of the water just in case.

My husband would make sure I was safe.  Big Rethug that he is.  He's not a coward.
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Offline Tucker

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Re: S. S. Feminist runs aground; captain caught dressing as a woman to escape
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2012, 05:01:52 PM »
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intaglio (2,889 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

25. No reason but ...

One sex using physical mass and strength to bully the other sex is a non starter.

He has to be referring to liberal womenz.

I doubt that there is a single male at DU that could kick a liberal woman's ass. Liberal men are pussies in the truest sense of the word.
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Offline shadeaux

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Re: S. S. Feminist runs aground; captain caught dressing as a woman to escape
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2012, 05:06:17 PM »
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Liberal men are pussies in the truest sense of the word.

For real.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: S. S. Feminist runs aground; captain caught dressing as a woman to escape
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2012, 05:13:55 PM »
Equality of the sexes....and every person for themselves....see how that desexualized PC shit works, Dummies?


....and I like this one
If I read my two part fairy tale correctly, (and I have gone through it cover to cover several times) then that water walking dude told the faithful flock NOT to keep religion on their sleeves and to forget about preying in ON THE public. He skipped over that part where the water walker said something like "He that doth not work, niether should he eat."

H

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Offline AprilRazz

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Re: S. S. Feminist runs aground; captain caught dressing as a woman to escape
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2012, 06:55:54 PM »
Wonder where the subway cat would fall into the scenario? It still has female parts but is bigger than most men.
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Offline Duke Nukum

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Re: S. S. Feminist runs aground; captain caught dressing as a woman to escape
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2012, 07:04:37 PM »
Quote from: AprilRazz on January 17, 2012, 06:55:54 PM
Wonder where the subway cat would fall into the scenario? It still has female parts but is bigger than most men.
She's too poor to ever be in that position.  Although, she would be on shore cheering the downfall of "the rich."
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Offline Rebel

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Re: S. S. Feminist runs aground; captain caught dressing as a woman to escape
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2012, 09:09:34 PM »
Here's the deal, sewer cat, you idiots are trying to destroy the greatest experiment on Earth and recreate the biggest FAILURE on Earth, AKA the USSR, because you idiots think it just wasn't done by the right people, AKA YOU f'n morons. I've read DU. I READ DU on a daily basis. MOST of you ****ing retards can't manage your own ****ing lives but think you have all the answers to what's wrong with this nation. What's wrong with THIS nation is too many Damn fiscal liberals like you, you transgendered freak. Unlike DU, we don't walk lockstep here. I'm not a social conservative. We have MAJOR problems with morals here, but our MAIN problem is fiscal.

Oh, and BTW, you ****ing idiots actually ever do cowboy up and actually do something, you, bitch, are the type I'm aiming for. Oh, does this have something to do with you being gay, trans, or whatever the **** you call yourself? No. I have two gay friends who have been with each other for 20 years that'll be right next to me.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 09:25:28 PM by Rebel »
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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline Rebel

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Re: S. S. Feminist runs aground; captain caught dressing as a woman to escape
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2012, 09:24:11 PM »
Watching a movie right now, "The Way Back". Funny, you never see these movies about escaping out of America. ...but liberals hate this nation.


He DUmbasses, do me a favor, I mean, seriously and with all the cliche that comes with it, if you don't like it, GET THE **** OUT! It's EASY! You want to change it from within, one problem, unlike the USSR, we were never RULED by a monarch. There IS no "proletariat" class here. We don't HAVE the haves and have nots. Its you idiots that want to turn us into that.

.....but I have about 5000 round of ammunition, plenty of firearms, and I'm pretty sure my conservative brethren have something similar.


Bring it, pussies.
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There's a reason why patriotism is considered a conservative value. Watch a Tea Party rally and you'll see people proudly raising the American flag and showing pride in U.S. heroes such as Thomas Jefferson. Watch an OWS rally and you'll see people burning the American flag while showing pride in communist heroes such as Che Guevera. --Bob, from some news site

Offline Rebel

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Re: S. S. Feminist runs aground; captain caught dressing as a woman to escape
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2012, 09:27:55 PM »
To my CC brethren, I'm sorry, but I've just had enough with all these "threats". I'm SO ready for them to bring it. I look to make George Walton proud.
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Offline Wineslob

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Re: S. S. Feminist runs aground; captain caught dressing as a woman to escape
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2012, 09:57:35 AM »
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AngryAmish (18,529 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

What do you think of the notion of "women and children first" during a disaster?When the Italian cruise ship ran aground there were reports that men pushed past women and children (and other men) to get at the lifeboats.

I can understand the notion of children first but is there room in our society prioritizing one sex over another during a disaster?



I think it's the right thing to do, moran.


Yes, idiot.

Just for the record, I think the captain of the ship needs to be hung from the yardarm. The actions of the "men" should also get them executed.


I applaud the reaction of the rescue people.
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