Author Topic: A Change In The Legal Climate  (Read 4044 times)

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Offline Chris_

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A Change In The Legal Climate
« on: January 31, 2014, 08:42:36 PM »
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A Change In The Legal Climate

The suit filed by Michael Mann, director of the Earth System Science Center at Pennsylvania State University, claims that the National Review and the Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI) libeled him in a pair of articles in which they stated he had manipulated climate data and that the fraud had been covered up by his employer, which said its investigation concluded he had done nothing wrong. To make the point, the CEI writer, Rand Simberg, drew a comparison between Penn State's handling of abuse allegations against Jerry Sandusky - the university's longtime assistant football coach convicted as a child molester - and its review of Mann's work.

"Mann could be said to be the Jerry Sandusky of climate science, except that instead of molesting children, he has molested and tortured data," Simberg wrote in the article Mann says is libelous.

Mark Steyn, a writer with National Review Online, wrote about the Simberg article and tossed in his own thoughts. While at first openly shying away from the Sandusky metaphor, Steyn called some of Mann's most prominent work "fraudulent" - a graph of historical temperatures showing rapid rises in modern times, which is widely known as the "hockey stick." Then Steyn returned to the references to the child molester.

In 2009, a still unknown hacker took thousands of private emails between climatologists and released 20 of them. The climate skeptics seized upon those documents as proof that scientists were cooking their research results.

The email held up as the most damning was from 1999, which, in regard to Mann, made reference to "Mike's Nature trick," and used the words "hide the decline" in reference to something one of the scientists was preparing that compared different means of reconstructing historical temperatures through proxies like tree rings. This, the skeptics claimed, showed that Mann had devised a dishonest way to disguise historically falling temperatures. They demanded investigations of Mann and the other climatologists on the emails to prove their research was part of a fraudulent scheme to fool the world into believing in climate change.
Newsweek

Something to keep an eye on.
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Offline Penfold

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2014, 10:18:21 AM »
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Something to keep an eye on.
can't keep an eye out on something if you don't know what you're looking for.

The media consistently put  "mental harnesses on people to guide them to specific emotional reactions to information; buzz words designed to subliminally correlate ideas and drive specific emotional responses.

For example, the other day, on another website, there was an article about a threatening twitter or text sent to the little girl who plays Charlie in the Disney tv show, "Good luck Charlie". (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/02/06/5-year-old-actress-gets-death-threats-over-her-disney-shows-gay-characters/#comment-1234844634)  

 I pointed out that the author of the article makes the association that the text was gay-bashing. The text itself, does not incorporate or imply any motivation for the threat. ((I was eventually was banned from the discussion, so my posts are no longer there).

99.98% of the people mindlessly reading the article missed this significant mental harness.

Did you see the 'mental harness' already embedded in the article YOU posted? There are two that I see, out of the gate.   Can you find it, now that you know to look for it?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 03:32:15 PM by Penfold »

Offline obumazombie

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2014, 01:58:31 PM »
^No. But perhaps you could enlighten me.





By the way Chris_ this article is going straight over to my other forum. I hope to stir up a few of the most rabid libs over there.
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Offline Penfold

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2014, 03:31:46 PM »
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^No. But perhaps you could enlighten me.
First off:  opening sentence is a run-on sentence, designed to confuse the reader, and the entire article is poorly written.  My 10th grade journalism teacher would have red-lined this paragraph up one side and down the other.

2..
Quote
claims that the National Review and the Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI) libeled him in a pair of articles in which they stated he had manipulated climate data and that the fraud had been covered up by his employer, which said its investigation concluded he had done nothing wrong.
This is a classic "he said, she said" ruse.  The CEI "libeled" him because they disagreed with his employer, who said in their investigation, he had done nothing wrong.

Well, OF COURSE his employer said he did nothing wrong!!!!!!!!!!   But there is no information about either "investigation" -- just the "he said, she said" comment.

3.
Quote
To make the point, the CEI writer, Rand Simberg, drew a comparison between Penn State's handling of abuse allegations against Jerry Sandusky - the university's longtime assistant football coach convicted as a child molester - and its review of Mann's work.

This sort of thing drives me batty:  comparing something to child molestation -- one of the worse crimes known to humanity.

 The "mental harness" is emotionally provocative --  but intellectually, does NOT hold water. ""Mann could be said to be the Jerry Sandusky of climate science, except that instead of molesting children, he has molested and tortured data,"

Really?  manipulating data is lying; it is manipulative; and  it is really crappy science.

But it is as evil as child molestation?????????  Puh-lease.

Everyone quoted in this article is pushing their agendas as hard and as emotionally intensely as possible -- and the reader is roped into going along, without realizing HOW s/he is being emotionally manipulated, even though the method is readily identified -- if a person knows for what they are looking.
 
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 03:35:47 PM by Penfold »

Offline Chris_

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2014, 04:43:19 PM »
can't keep an eye out on something if you don't know what you're looking for.
I was referring to Mann's lawsuit, but you keep on doing... whatever you're doing.
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Offline Penfold

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2014, 04:56:09 PM »
I was referring to Mann's lawsuit, but you keep on doing... whatever you're doing.

Well, then you were looking at one thing, and I was looking at something completely different -- kind of like blind people trying to describe an elephant when they each have only one section

So, could you please elucidate your point of view?   

Offline Chris_

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2014, 04:59:25 PM »
Well, then you were looking at one thing, and I was looking at something completely different -- kind of like blind people trying to describe an elephant when they each have only one section

So, could you please elucidate your point of view?   
I was simply stating that Mann's lawsuit against National Review was worth paying attention to.  Do I really have to spell that out for you?
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Offline Penfold

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2014, 05:01:12 PM »
I was simply stating that Mann's lawsuit against National Review was worth paying attention to.  Do I really have to spell that out for you?

Why?  Why is THIS issue influential in the bigger scope?

Offline EagleKeeper

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2014, 05:20:05 PM »
Why?  Why is THIS issue influential in the bigger scope?

I don't think anybody gave any significance to this story above any other story regarding climate change, you did.

When making a comment must we now cover the entire gamut and every facet of the topic? 
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Offline Penfold

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2014, 05:33:14 PM »
I don't think anybody gave any significance to this story above any other story regarding climate change, you did.

When making a comment must we now cover the entire gamut and every facet of the topic? 

Ok!  I get it now -- when something is labeled "something to keep an eye on," it is actually irrelevant!

sorry - I'm new to the board; I'm not "jiggy"  with the lingo yet.

Offline EagleKeeper

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2014, 05:39:32 PM »
Ok!  I get it now -- when something is labeled "something to keep an eye on," it is actually irrelevant!

sorry - I'm new to the board; I'm not "jiggy"  with the lingo yet.

Ah yes, you hit the nail right on the head.

Of course when someone mentions a single aspect of a larger issue (that might be interesting to some people) it must be irrelevant.

Thanks for pointing that out.
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Offline Penfold

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2014, 05:52:31 PM »
Ah yes, you hit the nail right on the head.

Of course when someone mentions a single aspect of a larger issue (that might be interesting to some people) it must be irrelevant.

Thanks for pointing that out.

You're welcome! 

But ... did you do know that a 'single issue' that is, of itself, irrelevant, doesn't actually influence a larger issue...

my point is that unless you can explain WHY this is relevant, or could be relevant -- then it isn't.

And my post actually addressed why this article *might* be relevant --  since it's designed to instigate emotional reactions without actual thought, and without actually SAYING anything of value...

so, you're welcome for that, too. :cheersmate:

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2014, 06:05:51 PM »
Why?  Why is THIS issue influential in the bigger scope?

Well, see, we don't have a minimum Gravitas Quotient for posting about an issue, and even if we did, it would be chris_ setting it, not you.

 :popcorn:
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Offline EagleKeeper

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2014, 06:11:22 PM »
You're welcome! 

But ... did you do know that a 'single issue' that is, of itself, irrelevant, doesn't actually influence a larger issue...

my point is that unless you can explain WHY this is relevant, or could be relevant -- then it isn't.

And my post actually addressed why this article *might* be relevant --  since it's designed to instigate emotional reactions without actual thought, and without actually SAYING anything of value...

so, you're welcome for that, too. :cheersmate:

Oh, I get it now, you're out to change the entire political landscape from this here little ole message board.

And that you are the arbiter of what is relevant and what is not.

Also, anybody that makes a post must come to you to explain why it might be relevant to the wider issue...or it's not relevant.

I see your problem now, do you see it?
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Offline Chris_

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2014, 06:12:40 PM »
You're welcome! 

But ... did you do know that a 'single issue' that is, of itself, irrelevant, doesn't actually influence a larger issue...

my point is that unless you can explain WHY this is relevant, or could be relevant -- then it isn't.

And my post actually addressed why this article *might* be relevant --  since it's designed to instigate emotional reactions without actual thought, and without actually SAYING anything of value...

so, you're welcome for that, too. :cheersmate:

Are you always this uptight?  Calm down... take a powder... chill out.
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Offline Penfold

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2014, 06:14:40 PM »
Well, see, we don't have a minimum Gravitas Quotient for posting about an issue, and even if we did, it would be chris_ setting it, not you.

 :popcorn:

so -- it's 'worth keeping an eye on,'  but not for any reason anyone else can explain...

so, the unspoken rule of the forum is don't ask questions... and don't think for myself... and if I do, I should be prepared to be either ignored, or belittled - by multiple people!!

got it.  

Offline Chris_

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2014, 06:33:33 PM »
so -- it's 'worth keeping an eye on,'  but not for any reason anyone else can explain...
Well, I assumed the reader would review the article (not just the four or five paragraphs I posted) and come to their own conclusions about the validity of Mann's lawsuit -- and his underlying data -- and it's effect on Simberg and Steyn's freedom of speech.  If you want to change the topic to "mental harnesses" and whatnot, knock yourself out.  I posted a portion of the article I thought would generate the most interest here.

I honestly didn't realize I had to make all that so painfully clear as to waste minutes of my time pointing it out.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2014, 06:44:47 PM »
Well, I assumed the reader would review the article (not just the four or five paragraphs I posted) and come to their own conclusions about the validity of Mann's lawsuit -- and his underlying data -- and it's effect on Simberg and Steyn's freedom of speech.  If you want to change the topic to "mental harnesses" and whatnot, knock yourself out.  I posted a portion of the article I thought would generate the most interest here.

I honestly didn't realize I had to make all that so painfully clear as to waste minutes of my time pointing it out.
Penfold must be a high school English teacher....read between the lines....find the hidden meaning and all that.
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Offline formerlurker

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2014, 07:18:39 PM »
Why?  Why is THIS issue influential in the bigger scope?

What in the ...?  Get over yourself.

NRO has been writing hilarious articles on this putz.  This is one of the better ones: 

http://m.nationalreview.com/corner/331497/nobel-mann-takes-revolting-peasants-mark-steyn


Oooh reference to revolting peasants, I am sooooo emotionally attached now to their agenda.

Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2014, 07:42:29 PM »
so -- it's 'worth keeping an eye on,'  but not for any reason anyone else can explain...

so, the unspoken rule of the forum is don't ask questions... and don't think for myself... and if I do, I should be prepared to be either ignored, or belittled - by multiple people!!

got it.  

No, you obviously DON'T get much of anything.  Bitching about the relative importance of someone else's post is not original thought, so you obviously aren't dealing with that realm in the first place.  It is what is known in intellectual circles as 'Derivative.'  Of course, a lot of modern historical and literary work is pretty derivative, which explains why there are so many unemployed history and literature graduates in this country, but that's another story.

So far you've impressed everyone with being just a lippy smart-ass, and as someone who depends on other people to post so you can snipe them, not as someone with interesting or original thoughts and perspectives to contribute.  It's early, you can recover from a negative initial impression, and several people in this thread have tried to cut you slack on that, but you've batted those overtures away.

Try saying something you really think instead of just being snarky and potshotting other members.  If you don't have anything original or constructive to say in a thread, then just try to restrain yourself from posting in it solely to jack up your post count.

Try saying what you think, instead of telling other people what they should think.   
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Offline freedumb2003b

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2014, 07:45:05 PM »
Ok!  I get it now -- when something is labeled "something to keep an eye on," it is actually irrelevant!

sorry - I'm new to the board; I'm not "jiggy"  with the lingo yet.

It is generally considered to be bad form to spam a board you are new to with assholery.

If you were not so pedantic I would waste 2 brain cells in addressing your vapid attempts at argumentation.

In your case: res ipsa loquitur
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Offline freedumb2003b

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2014, 07:45:59 PM »
so -- it's 'worth keeping an eye on,'  but not for any reason anyone else can explain...

so, the unspoken rule of the forum is don't ask questions... and don't think for myself... and if I do, I should be prepared to be either ignored, or belittled - by multiple people!!

got it.  

Tantrums are always welcome on any site.

You could just go and eat worms...
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Offline Big Dog

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2014, 07:57:36 PM »
Are you always this uptight?  Calm down... take a powder... chill out.

The boy needs some pie.



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Offline Penfold

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2014, 08:05:40 PM »

Try saying something you really think instead of just being snarky and potshotting other members.  If you don't have anything original or constructive to say in a thread, then just try to restrain yourself from posting in it solely to jack up your post count.

Try saying what you think, instead of telling other people what they should think.   
Actually - I did.  My second-ish post stated that the article was poorly written, filled with intentionally emotionally provocative comments designed to create specific reactionary responses.

and that is when I was summarily mocked... dismissed... etc.

so, yeah - got that message.

Offline obumazombie

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Re: A Change In The Legal Climate
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2014, 08:14:17 PM »
Actually - I did.  My second-ish post stated that the article was poorly written, filled with intentionally emotionally provocative comments designed to create specific reactionary responses.

and that is when I was summarily mocked... dismissed... etc.

so, yeah - got that message.
There's really no reason to be overly sensitive. Say your peace and move on. No one will "gun" for you here without cause. Just be honest, and respectful. Is that too much to ask ?
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