Author Topic: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students  (Read 7590 times)

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Offline BEG

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2008, 04:12:22 PM »
BEG, I have been to their homes and have taken wedding photographs of one of his teachers. You tend to get a little more personal here with your children's teachers when your child has autism. I don't ask them outright, but you get to know them more personally and get comfortable with one another. Of course, the stickers on their cars sometimes give you a clue too :-)

I was also talking generally aside from teachers. I've had a hell of a time dealing with people in church who are self-identified as conservative. I won't elaborate, but I mean even aside from autism. Just cold, disinterested individuals. Let's put it this way. The conservatives I DO KNOW, are normally a bit more uncomfortable around him. The liberals I KNOW seem to go out of their way to get to know him and include him. They are far more comfortable with his disability.

Hopefully that clarifies somewhat.

I can see how you would get to know your son's teachers on a more personal level that I would my kids.  Thanks for clarifying it for me.  

Offline RobJohnson

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2008, 05:46:57 PM »
How does a school teacher have tenure, surely it can't be safe to have staff you can't fire.

Yup, know many parents that have had major problems with a teacher that the district just moves around from school to school due to tenure...

Speaking of....this guy (link below) was from my old town in Illinois...they fired him anways.....but cost the district tons of money and it is still costing...the guy is a real nut job...every girl that had him in middle school said he loved to look down their shirts...sicko.

http://thehiddencostsoftenure.com/stories/?prcss=display&id=266541


Offline Hawkgirl

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2008, 05:53:34 PM »
What a horrible example of a human being.....and the fact that she's around children is even more disturbing.  If I were this mom...I would surely approach this "teacher"...and I then may be on trial shortly thereafter.. :chairshot:

Offline Miss Mia

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2008, 07:03:54 PM »
That's horrible.  I can't believe a freaking kindergarten teacher would do that to a child!
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Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2008, 07:57:37 PM »
Okay, that was overboard. The teacher thinks this is Survivor.  :mental: Yeah, I know kids can be a real handful, but to humilate one like that is just out of line, especially by a teacher who encouraged other students to vote him off. The teacher is already vilified on various blogs. It would not surprise me if she is getting harassed.
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Offline RobJohnson

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2008, 09:42:14 PM »
Okay, that was overboard. The teacher thinks this is Survivor.  :mental: Yeah, I know kids can be a real handful, but to humilate one like that is just out of line, especially by a teacher who encouraged other students to vote him off. The teacher is already vilified on various blogs. It would not surprise me if she is getting harassed.

I remember public school teachers that did stuff like this....every year, they had to single out one student....not fun if you were that kid.

Offline Schadenfreude

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2008, 10:12:07 PM »
I have no idea what side of the political spectrum my son's teachers are on. What I do know is, he can listen to the Rush Limbaugh show and repeat verbatim what he heard. That ought to give those librul teachers a little "whatfor" in the classroom.  :lmao:

As far as the kindergarten teacher goes, she is scum of the earth and doesn't belong in a classroom.
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Offline RobJohnson

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2008, 02:45:02 AM »
I have no idea what school my kids go to.



« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 02:47:02 AM by RobJohnson »

Offline Toastedturningtidelegs

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2008, 06:09:19 AM »
Empathy is a side lesson, doc, not the primary one, but its still not a bad one to get in situations detached from one's parents and like it or not as long as children will be with someone other then their parents for 7 hours a day they are going to learn about behavioral lessons from someone else(and I would consider teachers a part of a child's 'immediate community' when they spend so much time with them).


We will have to agree to disagree......I can only speak from my experience, but it seems that when "empathy", and "self esteem" became common phrases in our educational system, kids began graduating from HS without the ability to read, or make change in a business environment.....

I think that there is certainly a place in the educational system for children with disabilities....so long as they do not interfere, in any manner, with the progress of the class as a whole.  If a teacher is spending an inordinate amount of his/her time attempting to control/coach/lead/compensate  several "special needs" children, and the remainder of the class is sitting there waiting for the next set of instructions in order to progress, the class as a whole is being deprived of their due.

I have no problem with classes for special ed kids, but I have a BIG problem with "mainstreaming", in its various permutations....I've seen it in action, and to an extent, the normal kids are getting robbed.....

Instead of empathy in the classroom, I would expect teachers to spend that time on discipline.......

doc
Quote
discipline.......
I'm assuming you believe that you can "discipline" a disability out of a child? Please correct me if thats not what you meant. Children with autism/asperger spectrum disablities don't respond well to being "disciplined" in the traditional way one would discipline a "normal" child. Their brains don't operate the same way. As far as teaching empathy goes If they were getting that lesson at home there would be no need to teach it at school. I've seen kids at the school my boys go to {public school in a pretty conservative upscale district} act like complete little  assholes arrogant,selfish,self absorbed and absolutely no ability to empathize with anyone. Wonder where they learned this behaviour? Just a 2 minute conversation with one of their parents tells you everything you need to know. These    people raise their children like little princes and princesses. You can't question or expect anything out of "Their child" because "Their child is perfect in every way. Kids live what they learn and see at home Tvdoc.
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Offline jtyangel

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2008, 06:32:09 AM »
Empathy is a side lesson, doc, not the primary one, but its still not a bad one to get in situations detached from one's parents and like it or not as long as children will be with someone other then their parents for 7 hours a day they are going to learn about behavioral lessons from someone else(and I would consider teachers a part of a child's 'immediate community' when they spend so much time with them).


We will have to agree to disagree......I can only speak from my experience, but it seems that when "empathy", and "self esteem" became common phrases in our educational system, kids began graduating from HS without the ability to read, or make change in a business environment.....

I think that there is certainly a place in the educational system for children with disabilities....so long as they do not interfere, in any manner, with the progress of the class as a whole.  If a teacher is spending an inordinate amount of his/her time attempting to control/coach/lead/compensate  several "special needs" children, and the remainder of the class is sitting there waiting for the next set of instructions in order to progress, the class as a whole is being deprived of their due.

I have no problem with classes for special ed kids, but I have a BIG problem with "mainstreaming", in its various permutations....I've seen it in action, and to an extent, the normal kids are getting robbed.....

Instead of empathy in the classroom, I would expect teachers to spend that time on discipline.......

doc

Nice way to discount empathy by throwing it in with something we all know gets a hell of a lot of bad press(and should the way its been used)---self-esteem. Nice! They are not the same...let's settle that first. And it is undeniable in an environment where children spend the majority of their waking hours, that they will be learning other things besides the basics. This was even true hundreds of years ago when children had tutors, were sent off to school, or whose parents taught them. You can not seperate emotional learning from academic learning. The sheer amount of time spent at school makes that impossible. So, while they are there, what are they going to learn becomes the question? I can think of worse things to learn then empathy can't you? Self-esteem is a very self-centered concept, empathy is not.

And while analytics and practicality are important, so to are ethics and ethics aren't learned in a book that teaches one algebra. Ethics are learned by what we see around us, whether at home or outside of it. An integral part of ethics is being able to put yourself in the position of someone else ie empathy. They reflect our values and what do you think those kindergartners learned that day? And again, that is the other point, this is about a KINDERGARTEN class. I will ask you again, in a class full of distractions, how is an autistic child a problem? Have you ever been in a kindergarten class? The autistic child is probably the most reserved and quiet at that point becuase of the communication problems.

As for not interfering...all children are 'inconvenient' in that way, tvdoc. At some point in time every child in a classroom except the most introverted 'disupt' the class in some way. Children are children, they are growing and learning and have behaviors that consistently need to be addressed.It also doesn't kill kids to realize that life is messy. They will have to live with distractions in all situations: they home, their jobs, and just living life. They will adjust and be fine. I'm sorry, but I don't buy your argument. I think it is the grown ups who have a problem with this more then the children do. I also do not believe you really understand how mainstreaming works in some area. The 'regular' teacher, in my disrict anyway, is not alone with all the kids. The special needs children(2 or 3) have an aid who works with them alongside. The regular teacher does not address their special issues and they adjust their day accordingly if it is especially difficult for them(the aid does, not the teacher). I would venture a guess that the teacher spends more time redirecting the normal children then she does any of the special needs kids because of that, so AGAIN, given those circumstances, what other reason when that interruption is taken away do you have for excluding special needs kids from a regularly classroom part of the time? I still don't see a reason except they represent the 'messy' part of life. And you are right, this is an area I part ways with conservatives. I consider many conservatives on this issue cold and totally out of line with their pro-life views(the ones who have them). Also this conservative notion that school should be totally practical and have no emotional dimension or depthy too I consider to be total rubbish and very out of line with ethical principles found even in very practical areas of business(if that's where you are looking forward to).





Offline Schadenfreude

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2008, 06:45:06 AM »
We all want what's best for our children. Few parents of special needs children want to force the mainstreaming model if it isn't working. I have seen it both work well and fail miserably.

As far as shuffling kids off to special classrooms because they don't look normal or they walk funny or have difficulty talking ABSENT any disruptive behavioral issues.... well that is just plain wrong. I hope that tvdoc wasn't implying that, I don't believe he was.
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Offline jtyangel

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2008, 06:48:46 AM »
Pardon my typos. I'm attempting to get both my inconvenient child and my normal children all ready for school.  :evillaugh:

Offline Schadenfreude

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2008, 06:49:33 AM »
Pardon my typos. I'm attempting to get both my inconvenient child and my normal children all ready for school.  :evillaugh:

Sure, you just don't know how to spell.  :tongue:
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Offline Flame

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2008, 08:11:15 AM »
Just my 2 cents here, coming from the experience of being in many classrooms over the years.

It's not neccesarily the "special needs" kids causing the disruptions.  I find they usually have the tools/help in place that are needed to keep things flowing in the classroom.   It's the regular run of the mill "pain in the ass" kids that are disruptive and cause the problems.   They are the ones you constantly have to talk to, redirect, etc...the ones seeking the attention, or who think they can do no wrong.


There are a lot of problems in schools today.  Can't blame those problems on the special needs kids, though.

Offline BEG

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2008, 08:34:13 AM »
Empathy is a side lesson, doc, not the primary one, but its still not a bad one to get in situations detached from one's parents and like it or not as long as children will be with someone other then their parents for 7 hours a day they are going to learn about behavioral lessons from someone else(and I would consider teachers a part of a child's 'immediate community' when they spend so much time with them).


We will have to agree to disagree......I can only speak from my experience, but it seems that when "empathy", and "self esteem" became common phrases in our educational system, kids began graduating from HS without the ability to read, or make change in a business environment.....

I think that there is certainly a place in the educational system for children with disabilities....so long as they do not interfere, in any manner, with the progress of the class as a whole.  If a teacher is spending an inordinate amount of his/her time attempting to control/coach/lead/compensate  several "special needs" children, and the remainder of the class is sitting there waiting for the next set of instructions in order to progress, the class as a whole is being deprived of their due.

I have no problem with classes for special ed kids, but I have a BIG problem with "mainstreaming", in its various permutations....I've seen it in action, and to an extent, the normal kids are getting robbed.....

Instead of empathy in the classroom, I would expect teachers to spend that time on discipline.......

doc

Nice way to discount empathy by throwing it in with something we all know gets a hell of a lot of bad press(and should the way its been used)---self-esteem. Nice! They are not the same...let's settle that first. And it is undeniable in an environment where children spend the majority of their waking hours, that they will be learning other things besides the basics. This was even true hundreds of years ago when children had tutors, were sent off to school, or whose parents taught them. You can not seperate emotional learning from academic learning. The sheer amount of time spent at school makes that impossible. So, while they are there, what are they going to learn becomes the question? I can think of worse things to learn then empathy can't you? Self-esteem is a very self-centered concept, empathy is not.

And while analytics and practicality are important, so to are ethics and ethics aren't learned in a book that teaches one algebra. Ethics are learned by what we see around us, whether at home or outside of it. An integral part of ethics is being able to put yourself in the position of someone else ie empathy. They reflect our values and what do you think those kindergartners learned that day? And again, that is the other point, this is about a KINDERGARTEN class. I will ask you again, in a class full of distractions, how is an autistic child a problem? Have you ever been in a kindergarten class? The autistic child is probably the most reserved and quiet at that point becuase of the communication problems.

As for not interfering...all children are 'inconvenient' in that way, tvdoc. At some point in time every child in a classroom except the most introverted 'disupt' the class in some way. Children are children, they are growing and learning and have behaviors that consistently need to be addressed.It also doesn't kill kids to realize that life is messy. They will have to live with distractions in all situations: they home, their jobs, and just living life. They will adjust and be fine. I'm sorry, but I don't buy your argument. I think it is the grown ups who have a problem with this more then the children do. I also do not believe you really understand how mainstreaming works in some area. The 'regular' teacher, in my disrict anyway, is not alone with all the kids. The special needs children(2 or 3) have an aid who works with them alongside. The regular teacher does not address their special issues and they adjust their day accordingly if it is especially difficult for them(the aid does, not the teacher). I would venture a guess that the teacher spends more time redirecting the normal children then she does any of the special needs kids because of that, so AGAIN, given those circumstances, what other reason when that interruption is taken away do you have for excluding special needs kids from a regularly classroom part of the time? I still don't see a reason except they represent the 'messy' part of life. And you are right, this is an area I part ways with conservatives. I consider many conservatives on this issue cold and totally out of line with their pro-life views(the ones who have them). Also this conservative notion that school should be totally practical and have no emotional dimension or depthy too I consider to be total rubbish and very out of line with ethical principles found even in very practical areas of business(if that's where you are looking forward to).



Granted I don't have a special needs child but I wouldn't generalize that people who are conservative are cold when it comes to this issue.  Some people are just jerks and those jerks belong to both political persuasions.  But  I can't challenge you on this issue because again I don't have a special needs child and even if I did, your experiences are totally anecdotal and impossible to disprove.

I'm sorry that you have run into a bunch of uncaring cold conservatives with regard to your son.  If I sound defensive I think I just might be.  I think I'm being defensive because two of my friends (who are conservative) work with disabled children and are two of the most caring people I know.  One works with blind children and the other is an aid for children with disabilities and just so happens to work at my daughters elementary school. 

Offline jtyangel

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #40 on: May 30, 2008, 12:16:09 PM »
Empathy is a side lesson, doc, not the primary one, but its still not a bad one to get in situations detached from one's parents and like it or not as long as children will be with someone other then their parents for 7 hours a day they are going to learn about behavioral lessons from someone else(and I would consider teachers a part of a child's 'immediate community' when they spend so much time with them).


We will have to agree to disagree......I can only speak from my experience, but it seems that when "empathy", and "self esteem" became common phrases in our educational system, kids began graduating from HS without the ability to read, or make change in a business environment.....

I think that there is certainly a place in the educational system for children with disabilities....so long as they do not interfere, in any manner, with the progress of the class as a whole.  If a teacher is spending an inordinate amount of his/her time attempting to control/coach/lead/compensate  several "special needs" children, and the remainder of the class is sitting there waiting for the next set of instructions in order to progress, the class as a whole is being deprived of their due.

I have no problem with classes for special ed kids, but I have a BIG problem with "mainstreaming", in its various permutations....I've seen it in action, and to an extent, the normal kids are getting robbed.....

Instead of empathy in the classroom, I would expect teachers to spend that time on discipline.......

doc

Nice way to discount empathy by throwing it in with something we all know gets a hell of a lot of bad press(and should the way its been used)---self-esteem. Nice! They are not the same...let's settle that first. And it is undeniable in an environment where children spend the majority of their waking hours, that they will be learning other things besides the basics. This was even true hundreds of years ago when children had tutors, were sent off to school, or whose parents taught them. You can not seperate emotional learning from academic learning. The sheer amount of time spent at school makes that impossible. So, while they are there, what are they going to learn becomes the question? I can think of worse things to learn then empathy can't you? Self-esteem is a very self-centered concept, empathy is not.

And while analytics and practicality are important, so to are ethics and ethics aren't learned in a book that teaches one algebra. Ethics are learned by what we see around us, whether at home or outside of it. An integral part of ethics is being able to put yourself in the position of someone else ie empathy. They reflect our values and what do you think those kindergartners learned that day? And again, that is the other point, this is about a KINDERGARTEN class. I will ask you again, in a class full of distractions, how is an autistic child a problem? Have you ever been in a kindergarten class? The autistic child is probably the most reserved and quiet at that point becuase of the communication problems.

As for not interfering...all children are 'inconvenient' in that way, tvdoc. At some point in time every child in a classroom except the most introverted 'disupt' the class in some way. Children are children, they are growing and learning and have behaviors that consistently need to be addressed.It also doesn't kill kids to realize that life is messy. They will have to live with distractions in all situations: they home, their jobs, and just living life. They will adjust and be fine. I'm sorry, but I don't buy your argument. I think it is the grown ups who have a problem with this more then the children do. I also do not believe you really understand how mainstreaming works in some area. The 'regular' teacher, in my disrict anyway, is not alone with all the kids. The special needs children(2 or 3) have an aid who works with them alongside. The regular teacher does not address their special issues and they adjust their day accordingly if it is especially difficult for them(the aid does, not the teacher). I would venture a guess that the teacher spends more time redirecting the normal children then she does any of the special needs kids because of that, so AGAIN, given those circumstances, what other reason when that interruption is taken away do you have for excluding special needs kids from a regularly classroom part of the time? I still don't see a reason except they represent the 'messy' part of life. And you are right, this is an area I part ways with conservatives. I consider many conservatives on this issue cold and totally out of line with their pro-life views(the ones who have them). Also this conservative notion that school should be totally practical and have no emotional dimension or depthy too I consider to be total rubbish and very out of line with ethical principles found even in very practical areas of business(if that's where you are looking forward to).



Granted I don't have a special needs child but I wouldn't generalize that people who are conservative are cold when it comes to this issue.  Some people are just jerks and those jerks belong to both political persuasions.  But  I can't challenge you on this issue because again I don't have a special needs child and even if I did, your experiences are totally anecdotal and impossible to disprove.

I'm sorry that you have run into a bunch of uncaring cold conservatives with regard to your son.  If I sound defensive I think I just might be.  I think I'm being defensive because two of my friends (who are conservative) work with disabled children and are two of the most caring people I know.  One works with blind children and the other is an aid for children with disabilities and just so happens to work at my daughters elementary school. 

You are right, it is anecdotal, but as it is my everyday, it is the experience I live by and make my judgments from. Look, I'm picking on 'my own' here, BEG. Doesn't do me much gladness to do so, but that has been my experience thus far on this journey and it pains me greatly. Everyone here should remember I'm no liberal, so to say this has been my observation is not particularly a pleasant realization to share.

Offline BEG

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #41 on: May 30, 2008, 01:51:41 PM »

Granted I don't have a special needs child but I wouldn't generalize that people who are conservative are cold when it comes to this issue.  Some people are just jerks and those jerks belong to both political persuasions.  But  I can't challenge you on this issue because again I don't have a special needs child and even if I did, your experiences are totally anecdotal and impossible to disprove.

I'm sorry that you have run into a bunch of uncaring cold conservatives with regard to your son.  If I sound defensive I think I just might be.  I think I'm being defensive because two of my friends (who are conservative) work with disabled children and are two of the most caring people I know.  One works with blind children and the other is an aid for children with disabilities and just so happens to work at my daughters elementary school. 

You are right, it is anecdotal, but as it is my everyday, it is the experience I live by and make my judgments from. Look, I'm picking on 'my own' here, BEG. Doesn't do me much gladness to do so, but that has been my experience thus far on this journey and it pains me greatly. Everyone here should remember I'm no liberal, so to say this has been my observation is not particularly a pleasant realization to share.

I'm not saying your experience isn't valid but you made a generalization of all conservatives.  Yes you used a caveat but for some reason I felt you labeled the majority of conservatives cold and uncaring as far as kids with disabilities are concerned.  Perhaps I'm not as in tune to the slights that conservatives seem to be hurling towards your child as you because I haven't experienced it personally.  That very well could be the case, perhaps for that very reason I shouldn't have said anything.  I guess I just got defensive at the thought of my two friends being labeled cold and uncaring even though you used it as a generality. 

Just as you are picking on "your own", I too am sticking up for "my own".  I hold no ill will towards you or what your reality is.  Everyone can have the same experience and come away with a different perspective so I know that what you have experienced is very real to you.  I'm not doubting that one bit.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that what bothered me was the broad brush you used and decided that "in general" conservatives are cold, uncaring and only care about the unborn, because once they are are here they don't want to be bothered with "inconvenient children".  That comment kind of offended me and in a way you have just labeled all of us here....."in general".

Offline RobJohnson

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #42 on: May 30, 2008, 02:45:18 PM »
Speaking of tenure...did you catch this in the article I posted?

Quote
Roth, a Lutheran, contends he is the victim of a Catholic conspiracy.

“The students who complained about me are Catholic. The administrators who came after me are Catholic. The judges around here are Catholic. … It is part of the Catholic beliefs that they should help one another.”

He even fired his union-provided attorney – Irving Friedman -- because he thought he might be part of a conspiracy.

“He wasn’t Catholic, but the person with the union who hired him was,” Roth explained.

Since then, he has represented himself in court. Earlier this year, he was sentenced to 60 days in jail for contempt. He was recently released from the Henry County Jail on a second criminal contempt charge.

Mr. Roth was sentenced in August to six months in jail for contempt of court. because he repeatedly violated court rulings to stop filing motions related to his civil lawsuits against the Geneseo school district. He was released early from jail in November.

“Roth mistakenly believes if he gets a ‘non-Catholic’ judge he will start to win motions, the past sanctions will be vacated and his case reinstated. He conveniently overlooks the fact that most of his pleadings and arguments are frivolous,” VandeWiele said in his order.

Another judge, Alan Blackwood, was even more harsh, “His pleadings seek to vilify rather than state facts,” he said. “Instead of being concise, they are rambling gibberish, filed with outlandish and preposterous accusations and conclusions
  http://thehiddencostsoftenure.com/stories/?prcss=display&id=266541

Lord, help our schoolcchildren.

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2008, 08:12:51 PM »
From the blogs and comments I have seen, Wendy Portillo is the most hated person besides Lori Drew, OJ Simpson, Fred Phelps, and John Walker Lindh.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 08:20:19 PM by Ptarmigan »
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Offline The Ocean

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #44 on: May 30, 2008, 08:27:45 PM »
What a horrible example of a human being.....and the fact that she's around children is even more disturbing.  If I were this mom...I would surely approach this "teacher"...and I then may be on trial shortly thereafter.. :chairshot:

If I were on the jury, I wouldn't convict you.

Whatr a waste of oxygen.
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Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #45 on: May 30, 2008, 08:39:32 PM »

I would like to commend BEG and JTY on their ability to have a disagreement on an issue that
is very personal to them in an agreeable manner.


Offline Toastedturningtidelegs

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #46 on: May 30, 2008, 08:45:44 PM »

I would like to commend BEG and JTY on their ability to have a disagreement on an issue that
is very personal to them in an agreeable manner.


Yeah ok! But ya gotta admit a topless oil wrestling match would have been good too. :-)
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Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #47 on: May 30, 2008, 08:49:22 PM »

I did not mean to interrupt, ladies.  please carry on.

Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #48 on: May 30, 2008, 09:01:05 PM »

If I were on the jury, I wouldn't convict you.

Whatr a waste of oxygen.

Wendy Portillo is trash. I read that her brother, who was a New York Firefighter, died on 9/11. Well, to me that is irrelavant.
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Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #49 on: May 30, 2008, 09:09:43 PM »

If I were on the jury, I wouldn't convict you.

Whatr a waste of oxygen.

Wendy Portillo is trash. I read that her brother, who was a New York Firefighter, died on 9/11. Well, to me that is irrelavant.

that is beyond irrelevant.