Author Topic: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students  (Read 7592 times)

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Offline BEG

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Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« on: May 29, 2008, 09:33:13 AM »
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/27/earlyshow/main4130288.shtml



Quote
Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
Outraged Mom Of Special Needs Son Talks Exclusively With The Early Show

Alex Barton, 5, a special needs student, was voted out of his Florida kindergarten class. (CBS)

(CBS) A Port St. Lucie, Fla., mother is outraged and considering legal action after her son's kindergarten teacher led his classmates to vote him out of class.

Melissa Barton says Morningside Elementary teacher Wendy Portillo had her son's classmates say what they didn't like about 5-year-old Alex. She says the teacher then had the students vote, and voted Alex, who is being evaluated for Asperger's syndrome -- an autism spectrum disorder -- out of the class by a 14-2 margin.

*snip*

I heard the mom on Fox this morning say this teacher has tenure.  This really pisses me off.  :censored:

Offline Splashdown

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2008, 09:36:30 AM »
Why is it always Florida?

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Offline BEG

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2008, 09:43:03 AM »
Why is it always Florida?

 :fuelfire:


It's always either Florida or Texas. 

Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2008, 09:46:50 AM »
A kindergarten teacher has tenure?
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Offline bijou

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2008, 09:48:00 AM »
How does a school teacher have tenure, surely it can't be safe to have staff you can't fire.



Offline BEG

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2008, 09:49:28 AM »
A kindergarten teacher has tenure?

That is what the mom said.

Offline Lanie

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2008, 09:53:09 AM »
That is not even close to legal.

Kids have a right to an education.

If the kid needs special education, this needs to be diagnosed, and it needs to be determined that he can benefit from special education. The parents are to give their permission before taking the kid out of regular classes and into special ed. The parents are to give their permission before anything.

I hope the evaluation had parental permission added to it, because that also requires approval.

Not to mention that by law, except in the most extreme circumstances, a kid is to be placed in the most least restrictive environment. Even if the kid does have Autism, the IEP team (who makes out his educational program) is to ensure he's still with kids who don't have disabilities as often as possible.

There is a process for all of this stuff, and it doesn't involve a classroom vote.

This was not even close to legal.  :banghead:
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Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2008, 09:56:28 AM »

an excellent argument for homeschooling . . . or private schools. 

and wendy portillo has apparently been removed from the classroom.  and there are some even more disgusting details here, although I can't really vouch for the credibility of the website.

Offline BEG

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2008, 10:01:44 AM »
Watch this Video.....towards the end of the clip she said that the teacher said she doesn't feel like she has done anything wrong.  Then she goes on to say that a lot of people don't think they have done anything wrong...Al-Qaeda for one.  Harry Smith wanted to skip past that remark really quick like.  :p


http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=103693&comments=1

Offline BEG

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2008, 10:04:15 AM »
How does a school teacher have tenure, surely it can't be safe to have staff you can't fire.


That would seem to be the common sense approach but teachers have tenure none the less. 

Offline Chris_

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2008, 10:07:32 AM »
Many of the comments attached to that story are absolutely vile.  They are essentially saying that "mainstreaming" punishes the "normal" kids.

Folks, this is kindergarten.  5 year olds.  And the teacher had OTHER 5 year olds hold a popularity contest and then illegally evicted him.

If I was this kid's mom, I would meet that teacher in a freaking back alley and "vote" her off (I am a guy so I couldn't hit a woman).

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Offline Wretched Excess

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2008, 10:24:13 AM »
Many of the comments attached to that story are absolutely vile.  They are essentially saying that "mainstreaming" punishes the "normal" kids.

Folks, this is kindergarten.  5 year olds.  And the teacher had OTHER 5 year olds hold a popularity contest and then illegally evicted him.

If I was this kid's mom, I would meet that teacher in a freaking back alley and "vote" her off (I am a guy so I couldn't hit a woman).



those comments are not only vile, the people that made them are ignorant.  they are completely missing the point.  this simply isn't a "mainstreaming vs. not mainstreaming" argument.  it's about a teacher's malfeasance.


Offline jtyangel

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2008, 12:05:14 PM »
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/27/earlyshow/main4130288.shtml



Quote
Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
Outraged Mom Of Special Needs Son Talks Exclusively With The Early Show

Alex Barton, 5, a special needs student, was voted out of his Florida kindergarten class. (CBS)

(CBS) A Port St. Lucie, Fla., mother is outraged and considering legal action after her son's kindergarten teacher led his classmates to vote him out of class.

Melissa Barton says Morningside Elementary teacher Wendy Portillo had her son's classmates say what they didn't like about 5-year-old Alex. She says the teacher then had the students vote, and voted Alex, who is being evaluated for Asperger's syndrome -- an autism spectrum disorder -- out of the class by a 14-2 margin.

*snip*

I heard the mom on Fox this morning say this teacher has tenure.  This really pisses me off.  :censored:

She had no business putting a burden like that on 5 year olds. This is a far cry from my son's school that asks our permission every year to have his special needs teacher talk in front of his 'normal' class and explain to them the issues Ryan has and how he may act different and how inside he still has feelings, likes to play, wants to participate, etc.

So far we've had 2 good years and the children include him in the fold because at that age the teacher very much sets the tone for how other children should be treated. this woman dropped the ball on this one.

Offline jtyangel

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2008, 12:06:29 PM »
That is not even close to legal.

Kids have a right to an education.

If the kid needs special education, this needs to be diagnosed, and it needs to be determined that he can benefit from special education. The parents are to give their permission before taking the kid out of regular classes and into special ed. The parents are to give their permission before anything.

I hope the evaluation had parental permission added to it, because that also requires approval.

Not to mention that by law, except in the most extreme circumstances, a kid is to be placed in the most least restrictive environment. Even if the kid does have Autism, the IEP team (who makes out his educational program) is to ensure he's still with kids who don't have disabilities as often as possible.

There is a process for all of this stuff, and it doesn't involve a classroom vote.

This was not even close to legal.  :banghead:

Lanie, I'm glad to see you participate in something other then the NU thing. Appreciate your opinion. Hope you will continue to contribute in this way.


Offline jtyangel

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2008, 12:10:55 PM »
Many of the comments attached to that story are absolutely vile.  They are essentially saying that "mainstreaming" punishes the "normal" kids.

Folks, this is kindergarten.  5 year olds.  And the teacher had OTHER 5 year olds hold a popularity contest and then illegally evicted him.

If I was this kid's mom, I would meet that teacher in a freaking back alley and "vote" her off (I am a guy so I couldn't hit a woman).



At that age, it doesn't. My son is autistic as many of you know. He attends normal class for the parts he can participate in and even some schoolwork(with an aide who works with them at their desks so the teacher can teach--she usually tends to 2 or 3 special needs children who are capable of desk work). Other subjects where he is behind like math and reading he goes to his special education teacher IN A DIFFERENT ROOM and they teach him those in a way appropriate for his disability. I don't think a special needs child should be forced to be mainstreamed entirely into a regular class, but by the same token just their very presence in the room for the things they can do and to be with other children is not 'punishing or hindering' other children either. Normal children(and I have 2) really do learn some valuable lessons in empathy too when they have to interact with other children who have disabilities.

Offline USA4ME

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2008, 12:17:01 PM »
Wendy Portillo shouldn't be allowed anywhere near children.  What a scumbag!

And statistically a 90% chance she's a B. Hussein Osama follower.

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Offline Chris_

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2008, 12:19:56 PM »
Many of the comments attached to that story are absolutely vile.  They are essentially saying that "mainstreaming" punishes the "normal" kids.

Folks, this is kindergarten.  5 year olds.  And the teacher had OTHER 5 year olds hold a popularity contest and then illegally evicted him.

If I was this kid's mom, I would meet that teacher in a freaking back alley and "vote" her off (I am a guy so I couldn't hit a woman).



At that age, it doesn't. My son is autistic as many of you know. He attends normal class for the parts he can participate in and even some schoolwork(with an aide who works with them at their desks so the teacher can teach--she usually tends to 2 or 3 special needs children who are capable of desk work). Other subjects where he is behind like math and reading he goes to his special education teacher IN A DIFFERENT ROOM and they teach him those in a way appropriate for his disability. I don't think a special needs child should be forced to be mainstreamed entirely into a regular class, but by the same token just their very presence in the room for the things they can do and to be with other children is not 'punishing or hindering' other children either. Normal children(and I have 2) really do learn some valuable lessons in empathy too when they have to interact with other children who have disabilities.

Ding, ding, ding.  When I was a youngster, a few centuries ago, we had no such thing as special ed.  Sure we had children with various disabilities, but we managed without any problems at all.  It was understood by all that a few of the other children were different and we were expected to help out.  It was never an inconvenience of any kind because we never saw it that way.  The idea of a vote like this one would have been met with stunned silence.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2008, 12:21:56 PM »
Wendy Portillo shouldn't be allowed anywhere near children.  What a scumbag!

And statistically a 90% chance she's a B. Hussein Osama follower.

.
...or a Paulbot....considering propensity for bias toward others.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2008, 12:42:43 PM »
Ding, ding, ding.  When I was a youngster, a few centuries ago, we had no such thing as special ed.  Sure we had children with various disabilities, but we managed without any problems at all.  It was understood by all that a few of the other children were different and we were expected to help out.  It was never an inconvenience of any kind because we never saw it that way.  The idea of a vote like this one would have been met with stunned silence.

I agree to an extent........however in my secondary school years there was no attempt to "mainstream" significant numbers of severely disabled children to the detriment of normal classroom activities, which I see happening today.  Further, the focus of the classroom was never even remotely centered on teaching "empathy"....it was understood to an limited degree.  Our teachers were charged with teaching reading writing, and math skills.  We learned our "social skills" either at home (after school) or on the playground.

doc
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2008, 12:58:49 PM »
Ding, ding, ding.  When I was a youngster, a few centuries ago, we had no such thing as special ed.  Sure we had children with various disabilities, but we managed without any problems at all.  It was understood by all that a few of the other children were different and we were expected to help out.  It was never an inconvenience of any kind because we never saw it that way.  The idea of a vote like this one would have been met with stunned silence.

I agree to an extent........however in my secondary school years there was no attempt to "mainstream" significant numbers of severely disabled children to the detriment of normal classroom activities, which I see happening today.  Further, the focus of the classroom was never even remotely centered on teaching "empathy"....it was understood to an limited degree.  Our teachers were charged with teaching reading writing, and math skills.  We learned our "social skills" either at home (after school) or on the playground.

doc
The disabilities of the children I was talking about were not that severe, and yes our social skills were learned at home and were put into use in the classroom.  Those classroom situations made it clear why we were taught those things at home.
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Offline USA4ME

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2008, 12:59:41 PM »
...or a Paulbot....considering propensity for bias toward others.

I'm not going to dwell on this because this whole issue touches close to home for me; my 12 yr old daughter has Aspergers.  But I will give this observation, though I can't say it's true everywhere.  The teachers who have cared about her are the "Every child is God's creation and deserves to be provided every opportunity any other child in this classromm is afforded" type, and they've been overwhelmingly conservative.  The others just want to push them through, give them a passing grade, and move them on to be someone else's "problem."  The principal at her old school is one of the biggest libs around here, and his whole mission was "Let's all be happy, there are no problems, and if we just pretend they don't exist then they'll go away."  He, along with several teachers who were like him, were "the others" to whom I was referencing.  It was a struggle the whole time.  Since she's been in private school, it's been a dream.

I have no doubt this scummy teacher was like that, too.

.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 01:09:18 PM by USA4ME »
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Offline jtyangel

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2008, 03:16:24 PM »
Ding, ding, ding.  When I was a youngster, a few centuries ago, we had no such thing as special ed.  Sure we had children with various disabilities, but we managed without any problems at all.  It was understood by all that a few of the other children were different and we were expected to help out.  It was never an inconvenience of any kind because we never saw it that way.  The idea of a vote like this one would have been met with stunned silence.

I agree to an extent........however in my secondary school years there was no attempt to "mainstream" significant numbers of severely disabled children to the detriment of normal classroom activities, which I see happening today.  Further, the focus of the classroom was never even remotely centered on teaching "empathy"....it was understood to an limited degree.  Our teachers were charged with teaching reading writing, and math skills.  We learned our "social skills" either at home (after school) or on the playground.

doc
Empathy is a side lesson, doc, not the primary one, but its still not a bad one to get in situations detached from one's parents and like it or not as long as children will be with someone other then their parents for 7 hours a day they are going to learn about behavioral lessons from someone else(and I would consider teachers a part of a child's 'immediate community' when they spend so much time with them).

Aside from that, are you trying to tell me that kindergartners or grade schoolers in general have no activities in which autistic children could participate in? There is no point that an autistic child could be mainstreamed? None at all? I can think of several at that level. Remember, we are discussing KINDERGARTEN here, not 8th grade. I can think of any number of activities during kindergarten that an autistic child is perfectly capable of being a part of and would be no more disruptive then your average 5 year old. If they have an aid, that aid will generally know if the situation has become overwhelming BEFORE the child can disrupt too.

Moving on to USA's comments now...

USA, our experiences conflict once again my friend. Unfortunately, my experience has been to find far more cmpassion and understanding with liberal teachers and people in general. The attitude is sadly one of where..well they may believe in abortion, for example, but once a child is here they will move hell and high water to accomodate that child and see to it they are treated dignity, respect, and honor their unique capabilities.They take the time to engage my son and don't look at him as some obstacle hindering their day. It has been quite the opposite experience I'm afraid with conservatives. My experience there has been oftentimes that they would want every child born, but then seem to have no room for 'inconvenient children' in their world once they are here.

Offline BEG

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2008, 03:36:09 PM »
Ding, ding, ding.  When I was a youngster, a few centuries ago, we had no such thing as special ed.  Sure we had children with various disabilities, but we managed without any problems at all.  It was understood by all that a few of the other children were different and we were expected to help out.  It was never an inconvenience of any kind because we never saw it that way.  The idea of a vote like this one would have been met with stunned silence.

I agree to an extent........however in my secondary school years there was no attempt to "mainstream" significant numbers of severely disabled children to the detriment of normal classroom activities, which I see happening today.  Further, the focus of the classroom was never even remotely centered on teaching "empathy"....it was understood to an limited degree.  Our teachers were charged with teaching reading writing, and math skills.  We learned our "social skills" either at home (after school) or on the playground.

doc
Empathy is a side lesson, doc, not the primary one, but its still not a bad one to get in situations detached from one's parents and like it or not as long as children will be with someone other then their parents for 7 hours a day they are going to learn about behavioral lessons from someone else(and I would consider teachers a part of a child's 'immediate community' when they spend so much time with them).

Aside from that, are you trying to tell me that kindergartners or grade schoolers in general have no activities in which autistic children could participate in? There is no point that an autistic child could be mainstreamed? None at all? I can think of several at that level. Remember, we are discussing KINDERGARTEN here, not 8th grade. I can think of any number of activities during kindergarten that an autistic child is perfectly capable of being a part of and would be no more disruptive then your average 5 year old. If they have an aid, that aid will generally know if the situation has become overwhelming BEFORE the child can disrupt too.

Moving on to USA's comments now...

USA, our experiences conflict once again my friend. Unfortunately, my experience has been to find far more cmpassion and understanding with liberal teachers and people in general. The attitude is sadly one of where..well they may believe in abortion, for example, but once a child is here they will move hell and high water to accomodate that child and see to it they are treated dignity, respect, and honor their unique capabilities.They take the time to engage my son and don't look at him as some obstacle hindering their day. It has been quite the opposite experience I'm afraid with conservatives. My experience there has been oftentimes that they would want every child born, but then seem to have no room for 'inconvenient children' in their world once they are here.

I'm not questioning what you stated jty but how do you and USA know what political views your children's teachers have?  I have yet to know any of my kids teachers political views.  I have had a feeling but the teachers who I have a feeling about have been my son's high school teachers but I have never had a conversation with any of them that made me 100% positive what their political leanings were.  I have never known a political view of one of my elementary school kids teachers.  The only person in my kids elementary that I know the political views of for sure is the librarian because I have a friend that works in the library and she told me that the librarian supports Obama and was offended by an email that was circulating about him. 

**edtied to add: I volunteer in each of my kids classes (except for when they get to middle or high school).  I got to know each teacher exceptionally well and we never got on the subject of politics.

Offline jtyangel

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2008, 03:49:32 PM »
BEG, I have been to their homes and have taken wedding photographs of one of his teachers. You tend to get a little more personal here with your children's teachers when your child has autism. I don't ask them outright, but you get to know them more personally and get comfortable with one another. Of course, the stickers on their cars sometimes give you a clue too :-)

I was also talking generally aside from teachers. I've had a hell of a time dealing with people in church who are self-identified as conservative. I won't elaborate, but I mean even aside from autism. Just cold, disinterested individuals. Let's put it this way. The conservatives I DO KNOW, are normally a bit more uncomfortable around him. The liberals I KNOW seem to go out of their way to get to know him and include him. They are far more comfortable with his disability.

Hopefully that clarifies somewhat.

Offline Chris_

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Re: Kindergartner Voted Out By Students
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2008, 04:09:08 PM »
Empathy is a side lesson, doc, not the primary one, but its still not a bad one to get in situations detached from one's parents and like it or not as long as children will be with someone other then their parents for 7 hours a day they are going to learn about behavioral lessons from someone else(and I would consider teachers a part of a child's 'immediate community' when they spend so much time with them).


We will have to agree to disagree......I can only speak from my experience, but it seems that when "empathy", and "self esteem" became common phrases in our educational system, kids began graduating from HS without the ability to read, or make change in a business environment.....

I think that there is certainly a place in the educational system for children with disabilities....so long as they do not interfere, in any manner, with the progress of the class as a whole.  If a teacher is spending an inordinate amount of his/her time attempting to control/coach/lead/compensate  several "special needs" children, and the remainder of the class is sitting there waiting for the next set of instructions in order to progress, the class as a whole is being deprived of their due.

I have no problem with classes for special ed kids, but I have a BIG problem with "mainstreaming", in its various permutations....I've seen it in action, and to an extent, the normal kids are getting robbed.....

Instead of empathy in the classroom, I would expect teachers to spend that time on discipline.......

doc
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