Author Topic: Outsourcing  (Read 4600 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mustang

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
  • Reputation: +0/-2
Outsourcing
« on: May 24, 2010, 12:47:53 PM »
If you create American jobs, you get a tax cut.
If you hire people in India, China, Mexico, or any other place in the world, we tax the shit out of you.
And if you have a big ass corporation that tries to evade this by moving your headquarters overseas, we tax the shit out of you even more.

Plain and simple. No regulation. Just common sense

Offline Doc

  • General Malcontent and
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 830
  • Reputation: +2/-3
  • Sic transit gloria mundi
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2010, 01:18:22 PM »
Unfortunately economics is rarely that simple.......

First, outsourcing usually occurs because of two primary factors.........cost......and government regulation.

In the instant case in the US, much of the outsourced jobs stem from union activity placing US labor at an uncompetitive disadvantage with the same manufactured goods produced elsewhere.  Labor typically being the largest cost component of any manufactured item.

Regulation then further tips the balance in the direction of outsourcing, as the US government has, over the past four decades or so decided to regulate workplace environment, safety, emissions, hazardous waste disposal, energy consumption, etc.......on and on..........

Then there is the sheer absurdity of "taxing the shit" out of a corporation that decides to move their headquarters overseas........how do you propose to do that?  Once the corporation has established themselves in a foreign environment, they are out of reach of US taxing authority, unless you propose to impose a tariff on the goods that they import........

And that is the real root of your proposal......protectionism........it has been tried in the past, and rarely works.  All that we end up with is that US goods are so  expensive that they can marginally only be purchased by US consumers, and manufacturing for export would drop to zero, as our goods would be uncompetitive in the world marketplace.......end result, more jobs and markets lost.

We have evolved into a global marketplace, like it or not, and the only way to survive in it is to compete.......not isolate ourselves with punitive taxation and regulation.......

doc

Offline thundley4

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40571
  • Reputation: +2222/-127
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2010, 01:21:51 PM »
The US already has some of the highest corporate ax rates of all the industrialized countries.

 Also add in the EPA as to why countries move off shore.

Offline Mustang

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
  • Reputation: +0/-2
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2010, 02:32:00 PM »
Yeah, sorry I don't have sympathy for mindless giant corporations led by people who would sell their own mothers for a quick buck.

I don't buy into all that globalization economy. Jobs are lost and they don't come back. Our money goes overseas and doesn't come back.

I've moved to Ringwood and I love it, the community thrives on small business here. All it would take is a wallmart or something similar to shut it all down.

Offline thundley4

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40571
  • Reputation: +2222/-127
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2010, 02:33:17 PM »
You do realize that most of those mindless corporations are owned by shareholders?

Offline Mustang

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
  • Reputation: +0/-2
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2010, 02:35:15 PM »
Yeah I've been told your not patriotic unless you buy stocks. Bunch of bull if you ask me.  :bs:

I don't buy into the argument when conservatives treat sole-proprieters as the same as corporations.


Offline Wineslob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14442
  • Reputation: +780/-193
  • Sucking the life out of Liberty
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2010, 03:07:44 PM »
I think I smell................ :pokingpoop:
“The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.”

        -- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 55 BC (106-43 BC)

The unobtainable is unknown at Zombo.com



"Practice random violence and senseless acts of brutality"

If you want a gender neutral bathroom, go pee in the forest.

Offline Doc

  • General Malcontent and
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 830
  • Reputation: +2/-3
  • Sic transit gloria mundi
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2010, 03:42:23 PM »
Yeah, sorry I don't have sympathy for mindless giant corporations led by people who would sell their own mothers for a quick buck.

I don't buy into all that globalization economy. Jobs are lost and they don't come back. Our money goes overseas and doesn't come back.

I've moved to Ringwood and I love it, the community thrives on small business here. All it would take is a wallmart or something similar to shut it all down.


Did someone bring this over from DU?  Sounds just like their (lack of) understanding of economics..........

I don't give a rat's ass where my investment money goes, so long as I receive a return on my investment.  My portfolio contains stocks from South Korea, China, Indonesia, India, South Africa, the Middle East, and even a few European ones, as well as US stocks.......diversification is the key to successful investment.

If Obama decides to nationalize most of the US auto industry, I buy stocks in the Korean and Japanese manufacturers, because I know that the US government can't run a whorehouse without screwing it up (proven fact), so those investments become safer and more productive.   UAW jobs are lost........I don't give a damn........I want a return on investment, and if American companies allow themselves to be placed in an uncompetitive environment, through union giveaways, and political interventionism, and ultimately fail, my money will be elsewhere.......making a profit........

Like I mentioned above.......the global economy is here.......either take advantage of it, or sit in your little Ringwood commune, and let the world pass you by........because the "old economy" ain't coming back......ever......anyone that thinks it is......is simply a fool.

doc


Offline debk

  • Topic Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12473
  • Reputation: +467/-58
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2010, 03:52:36 PM »
I deal with people in India on a daily basis. The only reason that I have been able to figure out why the work I do (broker price opinions on real estate for lenders) has been outsourced, it to obtain a totally neutral party that works cheap.

It is horrendously difficult to explain to someone in Bangalore why a 2700SF house is probably only worth $20k and that whoever decided to loan the homeowner $100k on the property was just flat out stupid and the lender was just going to have to suck it up. Not only is there a bit( :lmao: ) of a language barrier, but they have no concept of what I am trying to explain.  :banghead: (this was a real 45 minute conversation Saturday morning)


I do think that more and more companies are starting to bring their tech support staff back to the US, simply because the consumer is forcing it upon the companies, by refusing to talk to someone who does not speak English as a first language.

I was on the phone with AT&T tech support last week for an hour. The tech was somewhere here in the SE. It was great! DirecTV has switched their tech support to here in the states too. Last time I spoke with someone with MSN, the tech was American also.

It's one thing to talk to another country about general information stuff....but when I'm talking about anything to do with money or technical support....I want an American who speaks perfect "American" that I can understand!!!
« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 03:59:02 PM by debk »
Just hand over the chocolate...back away slowly...far away....and you won't get hurt....

Save the Earth... it's the only planet with chocolate.

"My therapist told me the way to achieve true inner peace is to finish what I start. So far I've finished two bags of M&M's and a chocolate cake. I feel better already." – Dave Barry

A balanced diet is chocolate in both hands.

Offline zeitgeist

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6195
  • Reputation: +391/-44
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2010, 04:02:33 PM »
Unfortunately economics is rarely that simple.......

First, outsourcing usually occurs because of two primary factors.........cost......and government regulation.

In the instant case in the US, much of the outsourced jobs stem from union activity placing US labor at an uncompetitive disadvantage with the same manufactured goods produced elsewhere.  Labor typically being the largest cost component of any manufactured item.

Regulation then further tips the balance in the direction of outsourcing, as the US government has, over the past four decades or so decided to regulate workplace environment, safety, emissions, hazardous waste disposal, energy consumption, etc.......on and on..........

Then there is the sheer absurdity of "taxing the shit" out of a corporation that decides to move their headquarters overseas........how do you propose to do that?  Once the corporation has established themselves in a foreign environment, they are out of reach of US taxing authority, unless you propose to impose a tariff on the goods that they import........

And that is the real root of your proposal......protectionism........it has been tried in the past, and rarely works.  All that we end up with is that US goods are so  expensive that they can marginally only be purchased by US consumers, and manufacturing for export would drop to zero, as our goods would be uncompetitive in the world marketplace.......end result, more jobs and markets lost.

We have evolved into a global marketplace, like it or not, and the only way to survive in it is to compete.......not isolate ourselves with punitive taxation and regulation.......

doc


What you have written above is pretty much exactly how Franklin &Eleanor Roosevelt turned the last significant economic downturn into the longest depression on record and set the stage for WWII.  The Queer Horse might not like to hear that but it is the truth, all on the record. Plenty of books on the subject, I recommend FDR's Folly as a great place for dummies to start learning about the former Hero of the democrat party.
< watch this space for coming distractions >

Offline The Village Idiot

  • Banned
  • Probationary (Probie)
  • Posts: 54
  • Reputation: +96/-15
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2010, 04:08:38 PM »
Plus FDR tried to force every business into a guild so that they could not really compete against each other.

Offline Mustang

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
  • Reputation: +0/-2
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2010, 04:13:21 PM »
I don't give a rat's ass where my investment money goes, so long as I receive a return on my investment.  

Yeah it's greedy oinkers like you that make the shit go round.


I'm not an economist but I have yet to hear a good argument how a sole-proprieter or even an LLC can compete with a large corporation.
Luckily I am in the type of business that hasn't been conquered by big business.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 04:15:43 PM by Mustang »

Offline The Village Idiot

  • Banned
  • Probationary (Probie)
  • Posts: 54
  • Reputation: +96/-15
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2010, 04:16:49 PM »
Protectionism does not work. Ask North Korea.

Did you hear that Venzuela's idiot put price controls on meat?? Now you can't really find it for sale anymore. except on the black market, or the "real" market as they call it.

Offline Chris_

  • Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46845
  • Reputation: +2028/-266
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2010, 04:18:34 PM »
There's always rats.
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline The Village Idiot

  • Banned
  • Probationary (Probie)
  • Posts: 54
  • Reputation: +96/-15
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2010, 04:20:12 PM »
There's always rats.

North Koreans wish there were rats

Offline Doc

  • General Malcontent and
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 830
  • Reputation: +2/-3
  • Sic transit gloria mundi
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2010, 04:20:25 PM »
Yeah it's greedy oinkers like you that make the shit go round.

I'm not an economist but I have yet to hear a good argument how a sole-proprieter or even an LLC can compete with a large corporation.
Luckily I am in the type of business that hasn't been conquered by big business.

At least I'm not sitting on my ass, sucking on a bong, eating Cheetos, and waiting for my next government check.......

It is VERY obvious that you are not an economist........the best way to compete with a large corporation is to.......become one........

doc

Offline zeitgeist

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6195
  • Reputation: +391/-44
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2010, 04:23:32 PM »
Plus FDR tried to force every business into a guild so that they could not really compete against each other.

Yep, and So_damn Insane Obama is following right down the same path to the same dismal failure.
< watch this space for coming distractions >

Offline Mustang

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
  • Reputation: +0/-2
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2010, 04:24:00 PM »
At least I'm not sitting on my ass, sucking on a bong, eating Cheetos, and waiting for my next government check.......

It is VERY obvious that you are not an economist........the best way to compete with a large corporation is to.......become one........

doc

So your philosophy is be a big business or get the f*ck out of the way? Hmmm, maybe you are not so different from the bongers on well-fare checks.

I don't see why punitive taxing on overseas employment and tax cuts for creating American jobs would be a bad thing. I must have a soul.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 04:26:20 PM by Mustang »

Online DefiantSix

  • Set Condition One throughout the ship
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17469
  • Reputation: +1724/-189
  • Captain, IKV Defiant
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2010, 04:26:06 PM »
...Luckily I am in the type of business that hasn't been conquered by big business.

Last I'd heard - from you, mind you - you were an unpaid intern with the GOP, and proud to be doing your part...  I thought "big business" had K street when they needed somebody to perform fellatio on a politician.
"Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here."
-- Capt. John Parker

"I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission"
-- Capt. Steve Rogers

"In this present crisis, government in not the solution to our problem, government IS the problem."
-- Ronaldus Magnus

Offline Mustang

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
  • Reputation: +0/-2
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2010, 04:28:15 PM »
Last I'd heard - from you, mind you - you were an unpaid intern with the GOP, and proud to be doing your part...  I thought "big business" had K street when they needed somebody to perform fellatio on a politician.

I do have an actual job now. I still support Christie, who I campaigned for, but lost faith in the GOP. I guess I learned the hard way.

Offline Doc

  • General Malcontent and
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 830
  • Reputation: +2/-3
  • Sic transit gloria mundi
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2010, 04:28:25 PM »
So your philosophy is be a big business or get the f*ck out of the way? Hmmm, maybe you are not so different from the bongers on well-fare checks.

Well.....my mentor (years ago) in the business world had a saying, that I learned well, it was:  "Either lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way........."   It has served me well over the years......

I EARN my income........nobody hands it to me..........

doc

Offline Mustang

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
  • Reputation: +0/-2
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2010, 04:37:11 PM »
I ain't proposing isolation in economics. In fact I think we should be exporting goods, not importing it.

Hear about the toxic drywall from China?  great, we got thousands of architecture poisened because of cheap labor and greed.

Offline Doc

  • General Malcontent and
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 830
  • Reputation: +2/-3
  • Sic transit gloria mundi
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2010, 04:39:06 PM »
I don't see why punitive taxing on overseas employment and tax cuts for creating American jobs would be a bad thing. I must have a soul.

Well.....you can't tax what you don't have any taxing authority over (overseas employment), and there is nothing wrong with tax cuts to create jobs.........

Across the board slashing of government spending, reduction in all classes of taxes would go a long way to creating not only more jobs, but more government revenue.........Reagan proved that concept.

You will have a difficult time convincing the present crowd in DC to do any of that however.......just political reality.

doc

Offline dutch508

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12522
  • Reputation: +1647/-1068
  • Remember
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2010, 04:40:33 PM »
Last I'd heard - from you, mind you - you were an unpaid intern with the GOP, and proud to be doing your part...  I thought "big business" had K street when they needed somebody to perform fellatio on a politician.

Mustang sounds like another dumbassed friend of mine who was GOP-ing as an intern and suddenly found faith in ronpaul...

sometimes you just can't fix stupid.
The torch of moral clarity since 12/18/07

2016 DOTY: 06 Omaha Steve - Is dying for ****'s face! How could you not vote for him, you heartless bastards!?!

Offline Doc

  • General Malcontent and
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 830
  • Reputation: +2/-3
  • Sic transit gloria mundi
Re: Outsourcing
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2010, 04:43:33 PM »
Mustang sounds like another dumbassed friend of mine who was GOP-ing as an intern and suddenly found faith in ronpaul...

sometimes you just can't fix stupid.

I was kind of thinking that this thread had that "ronpaul" stench to it.......

doc