Author Topic: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?  (Read 8309 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Uhhuh35

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1110
  • Reputation: +94/-41
  • Subtle Like A Nuclear Weapon
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2008, 06:34:21 PM »
Because Europe needs Russia more than Russia needs Europe.  There is always another customer for oil.  Where will Europe get that 40% that Russia supplies if they stop buying from them?  I'm pretty sure the Chinese would love to get some Russian oil.  Besides some rhetoric, we can't do anything to them.  The truth of the matter is, we won't risk war for Georgia. 
I was wonderin' why the Euro-Gays haven't said much. 40 percent of their oil is a big reason to stay quiet for exactly the reasons John has stated.
But now that Poland has shown some guts I wonder how much oil they get from "Mother Russia"?
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
— Albert Einstein.

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23048
  • Reputation: +2232/-269
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2008, 08:34:23 PM »
I was wonderin' why the Euro-Gays haven't said much. 40 percent of their oil is a big reason to stay quiet for exactly the reasons John has stated.
But now that Poland has shown some guts I wonder how much oil they get from "Mother Russia"?
The Poles have some major stones and they don't mind smacking you with them.

In recent EU entry negotiations they told France they didn't give a @#$% what Germany thought about the policy of weighting parliamentary representation based on population because had it not been for German aggression in WW2 the Poles would not have lost half their population and would be better represented. WW2 had pretty much been the "No-Talk Zone" of EU politics but the Poles were of no mind to heel to such conventions.

I can only presume they would be all the more defiant in the face of possible Russian posturing considering its more recent and more imminent nature.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Airwolf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11526
  • Reputation: +608/-163
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2008, 09:11:05 PM »
Well since we already have American troops in Georgia I doubt that Putin wants to move to fast and find out that his troops screwed the pooch and killed some Americans.  The radio on Neal Boortz had an interesting thing about getting the Ukraine to join NATO just to stick a finger in Putins eye and keep him at a distance. We might not be able to get Georgia to join up let alone defend itself against Russia but the Ukraine is something much different.
MOLON LABE

"Someday, when all your civilization and science are likewise swept away, your kind will pray for a man with a sword."-- Conan the Barbarian

Clint Eastwood - Because God wanted Chuck Norris to have nightmares.

"I am not a Number,I am a free man"

"He's my hero, you don't put away your heros, you honor them!"

Offline DumbAss Tanker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28493
  • Reputation: +1707/-151
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2008, 08:22:46 AM »
So the wind, reap the blowback:

Quote
By VANESSA GERA and MONIKA SCISLOWSKA, Associated Press Writers
26 minutes ago

WARSAW, Poland - Poland and the United States reached an agreement Thursday that will see a battery of American missiles established inside Poland, the prime minister said, announcing a plan that has infuriated Russia and raised the specter of an escalation of tension with the region's communist-era master.
 
The deal, which Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said was to be signed later Thursday in Warsaw by Poland and the United States, includes what he called a "mutual commitment" between the two nations — beyond that of NATO — to come to each other's assistance in case of danger.

That was an obvious reference to the force and ferocity with which Russia rolled into Georgia in recent days, taking the key city of Gori and apparently burning and destroying Georgian military outposts and airfields.

Tusk said that the North Atlantic Treaty Organization would be too slow in coming to Poland's defense if Poland were threatened and that the bloc would take "days, weeks to start that machinery."

"Poland and the Poles do not want to be in alliances in which assistance comes at some point later — it is no good when assistance comes to dead people. Poland wants to be in alliances where assistance comes in the very first hours of — knock on wood — any possible conflict," Tusk said.

"This is a step toward real security for Poland in the future," he added.

A U.S. official in Washington said "it looks as if we're near agreement, and we hope to make a joint announcement today." The official spoke on condition of anonymity ahead of a formal announcement.

Tusk, speaking in a televised interview from the capital, said the United States agreed to Polish proposals that it help augment its defenses in exchange for placing 10 missile defense interceptors.

Tusk said that the U.S. met the key Polish demands "concerning the permanent presence of Patriots, missiles that will be able to effectively protect our territory."

"The Americans have accepted these postulates," he said on TVN24, an all-news channel.

The deal was reached after more than 18 months of back-and-forth, often terse, negotiations.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080814/ap_on_re_eu/poland_us_missile_defense

Good job, Vlad the Inhaler.

Told ya.
Go and tell the Spartans, O traveler passing by
That here, obedient to their law, we lie.

Anything worth shooting once is worth shooting at least twice.

Offline Chris_

  • Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46845
  • Reputation: +2028/-266
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2008, 11:05:02 AM »
I was wonderin' why the Euro-Gays haven't said much. 40 percent of their oil is a big reason to stay quiet for exactly the reasons John has stated.
But now that Poland has shown some guts I wonder how much oil they get from "Mother Russia"?
The Poles have some major stones and they don't mind smacking you with them.

In recent EU entry negotiations they told France they didn't give a @#$% what Germany thought about the policy of weighting parliamentary representation based on population because had it not been for German aggression in WW2 the Poles would not have lost half their population and would be better represented. WW2 had pretty much been the "No-Talk Zone" of EU politics but the Poles were of no mind to heel to such conventions.

I can only presume they would be all the more defiant in the face of possible Russian posturing considering its more recent and more imminent nature.

The Poles have not forgotten living under the soviet hammer, and are not likely to do so soon.  The "unintended consequences" of Putin's move into Georgia, especially regarding the former soviet bloc countries will be fun to watch.

I think the fall-out for Russia is just beginning, and it couldn't happen to a better bunch of cretins.....

doc
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline JohnMatrix

  • admirer of Sir Edward Tylor
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 396
  • Reputation: +106/-3013
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2008, 03:31:17 PM »
its alot more complicated then that.

No it is not......

Nuances are for apologists.......the simple fact is that the Russians invaded with armored combat units, and they need to have their collective butts kicked for that.  If they have political issues with Georgia, they have other means of making their point. 

This is more of Putin's saber-rattling, like his recent habit of sending his ancient "Bear" flights near US Naval assets.  I think we should splash a couple, and that crap would stop. Embarass the hell out of them with the world watching....

If it wasn't for the fact that they are sitting on a large number of nuclear weapons that they can't afford to provide adequate security for,  the world would place them in roughly the same category with France........"all hat, and no cattle".......

doc

you're right, its not like the georgians did anything provocative at all.
LadyLiberty does not like my mother because I speak Spanish to her in public.

yes snuggly bunny, i voted for RON PAUL.

Mr.Mann is obsessed with me.

Offline Willow

  • Limousine
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1230
  • Reputation: +91/-9
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2008, 03:43:17 PM »
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed crickets on the part of the left leaning liberals in regards to Russia's "unilateral" invasion of another country. After all Russia did act as an "invader" with express permission of the UN did it not? Where o where is the "outrage" from the liberal left?  :confused: Where o where are the cries of "Russia is a bully"?

Offline JohnMatrix

  • admirer of Sir Edward Tylor
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 396
  • Reputation: +106/-3013
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2008, 03:45:57 PM »
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed crickets on the part of the left leaning liberals in regards to Russia's "unilateral" invasion of another country. After all Russia did act as an "invader" with express permission of the UN did it not? Where o where is the "outrage" from the liberal left?  :confused: Where o where are the cries of "Russia is a bully"?

you didn't see obamas statement?  the ceasefire was his idea, remember?
LadyLiberty does not like my mother because I speak Spanish to her in public.

yes snuggly bunny, i voted for RON PAUL.

Mr.Mann is obsessed with me.

Offline Willow

  • Limousine
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1230
  • Reputation: +91/-9
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2008, 03:49:17 PM »
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed crickets on the part of the left leaning liberals in regards to Russia's "unilateral" invasion of another country. After all Russia did act as an "invader" with express permission of the UN did it not? Where o where is the "outrage" from the liberal left?  :confused: Where o where are the cries of "Russia is a bully"?

you didn't see obamas statement?  the ceasefire was his idea, remember?


yes, Putin was kissing bama's ass and rolling toward Tibliski (sp)  :rotf: that sweet talk goes a long way Brock!

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23048
  • Reputation: +2232/-269
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2008, 04:47:02 PM »
you're right, its not like the georgians did anything provocative at all.
Yes, how dare they try to join the EU and NATO over the trifling fabrication of supposed Russian aggression.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Chris_

  • Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46845
  • Reputation: +2028/-266
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2008, 04:53:27 PM »
you're right, its not like the georgians did anything provocative at all.
Yes, how dare they try to join the EU and NATO over the trifling fabrication of supposed Russian aggression.

I think the only mistake the Georgians made was forgetting.......as my grandpa used to say......."if you are going to poke a sleeping bear, you'd better be prepared to kill it........"

doc
If you want to worship an orange pile of garbage with a reckless disregard for everything, get on down to Arbys & try our loaded curly fries.

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23048
  • Reputation: +2232/-269
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2008, 05:48:36 PM »
August 10, 2008: To no one's surprise, the  Russians drove back a Georgian attempt to regain control of South Ossetia. There were several hundred military and civilian casualties. The fighting apparently began when some South Ossetia militiamen fired across the border at Georgian troops. This escalated to a Georgian invasion, and a Russian reinforcement of its peacekeepers, and the expulsion of the Georgian troops. All in the space of a week. The fighting continues, with Russian warplanes bombing civilians and military targets in Georgia and moving more troops into another breakaway Georgian region, Abkhazia. Georgia has asked for a ceasefire, but the Russians have not responded.

Since the early 1990s, Russia and Georgia have argued over who should control South Ossetia, a Georgian province on the Russian border. Just to the north of South Ossetia, is the Russian territory of North Ossetia. The Soviets often split ethnic groups between two provinces (or "Autonomous Republics") to make it more difficult for the people to unite in opposition to the Soviet Union. This, among many similar measures, worked. Since the Russians moved in their peacekeepers in the early 1990s, they have issued Russian passports to the South Ossetians and, in effect, annexed the region.

The Ossertians are a different ethnic group from the ethnic Georgians, as are the Abkhazians. This sort of ethnic mélange is common throughout the Caucasus. During the last years of the Soviet Union (1989-1991), ethnic tensions increased throughout the Soviet Union, as long dormant (and suppressed by a brutal police state) aspirations stirred once more. While the Soviet politicians pulled off an astonishing feat by dissolving the empire without bloodshed (and creating fourteen new countries from portions of the empire that decided not to stay with the new Russia), there were lots of smaller groups that still had separatist grievances. Two of these groups were in Georgia, and occupied the regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

The populations rebelled against the Georgian government and drove out Georgian officials, troops and ethnic Georgians. Thousands of ethnic Abkhazians and Ossetians fled to the new statelets. Since both of these areas were on the Russian border, Russia saw an opportunity to quiet things down (they did not want an ethnic based guerilla war going on along their border). So Russia offered its services as mediator and peacekeeper in the early 1990s, and peace was restored. The UN agreed all this, and a reluctant Georgia went along. But after that, the Russians refused to leave, or encourage the Abkhazians and Ossetians to work out a deal to become part of Georgia once more. Abkhazians and Ossetians wanted to be independent, and declared themselves so. No one else recognized this. In 2004, Georgia began cracking down on the smuggling and other criminal activity that was keeping the economy in South Ossetia going. This led to more and more gunfire along the border between Georgia and South Ossetia.

Two years ago, Georgia began a major expansion of its armed forces. Officially, the active forces were then about 26,000 troops, already up from about 12,000-14,000 just a couple few years before that. Unofficially, the government has raised strength to about 28,000. This was done by adding more professional troops and increasing the order-of-battle by two battalions of conscripts. The government goal is to increase the active force to about 35,000. In addition, Georgia began building a reserve force.

 

Until a few years ago the "reserves" constituted the entire body of conscripts discharged over the past 15 years. But this pool, of about 250,000 men, was just that, a pool. The "reservists" were not subject to periodic refresher training, and so no more than perhaps 10 percent of them could be considered useful in the event of activation. Beginning four years ago, Georgia instituted a more rigorous reserve training program. An active reserve has been created, which apparently numbers over 10,000 men, and is expected to grow to as many as 100,000 over the next few years, as conscripts (drafted at 18 to 18-24 months) leave active service, and enter 5-10 years of reserve duty. 

While Georgia doesn't have the money for modern equipment (it's stuff is mostly Russian Cold War vintage), it does have enough professional soldiers from the old Red Army, and a military tradition going back centuries. Much to the discomfort of Russia, the United States has been supplying Georgia with military trainers and some equipment. Partly, this is in response to Georgian help in Iraq. Georgia first sent 800 peacekeepers to Iraq, and began increasing that force. Currently there are 2,000 Georgian troops in Iraq, where they obtain useful operational experience.

 

The principal reason for the military build-up is the secessionist regimes in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. The Georgians wanted the option of trying for a military solution. There are also some Russian troops, leftovers from Soviet Union era garrisons, still in the country. Georgia has been trying get all the Russian soldiers out since the Soviet Union collapsed (and Georgia became independent once more) in 1991. But the Russians have come up with a long string of excuses for delaying a final pullout. To make matters worse, several thousand of those troops are "peacekeepers" in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. To most Georgians, the Russian peacekeepers are there mainly to keep the rebel regions free of Georgian control.

It's not yet clear what the Georgian government was thinking when they allowed the border skirmishing to escalate to a military effort to restore government control over South Ossetia. It didn't work, as the Russians promptly counterattacked and drove the Georgian troops out of South Ossetia. The Georgians can try a guerilla war, and hope that their new relationship with the United States and the European Union will add some measure of protection. That's a false hope. The Russians have made it clear during the last few years that any real, or imagined, Western influence or interference in nations that border Russia (what the Russians call the "near-abroad") will be opposed with lots of noise, followed by some firepower. The recent events in Georgia are an example of that, an example the Russians hope the West takes seriously, even if the Georgians don't.

Russian politicians have been playing the nationalism card, catering to widespread feelings that the Soviet Union should be restored. Most Russians never cared for the communist dictatorship, but they did like being a superpower.  The Russians also feel that those fourteen nations that split off when the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991, left Russia surrounded by a lot of unstable and vulnerable nations. This sounds paternalistic and paranoid to Westerners, but not to Russians. And the Russians are willing to use force to back up these attitudes, as the Georgians just discovered. Russia still has nukes, and some Cold War attitudes that make for a potentially very dangerous situation.

http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/russia/articles/20080810.aspx
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Crazy Horse

  • Army 0 Navy 34
  • Topic Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5571
  • Reputation: +236/-143
  • Sex, Booze and Bacon Minion
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2008, 07:53:22 PM »
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed crickets on the part of the left leaning liberals in regards to Russia's "unilateral" invasion of another country. After all Russia did act as an "invader" with express permission of the UN did it not? Where o where is the "outrage" from the liberal left?  :confused: Where o where are the cries of "Russia is a bully"?

you didn't see obamas statement?  the ceasefire was his idea, remember?

Yeah three days after McCain said the same thing
You got off your ass, now get your wife off her back.

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23048
  • Reputation: +2232/-269
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2008, 08:13:48 PM »
Far be it for me to defend JM but I think he was being facetious.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Vagabond

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2478
  • Reputation: +166/-52
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2008, 10:53:48 PM »
The Russians can jump in a lake.  Or, they can join the rest of the world, their choice and I don't care what they do.

The Russians wanted control of the Georgian pipeline and used the pretext of trouble they started to grab it.  Draw whatever paralell you want.  Hitler in the Sudetenland, the Romans in Greece, the Russians in Hungary and Czechoslovakia, Saddam in Kuwait, they all work.

If they are allowed to maintain control, they will assault the Ukraine next.

Right now they are nothing more than a bunch of criminals and should be treated the same way. 

Ultimately it doesn't matter, the Russians average three abortions per live birth and something less than one child born to a Russian woman.  The average Russian woman is over 40, meaning the rates won't change much.  The Russians are as powerful right now as they will be in the next two centuries at least.  If they thought this through, they would do everything possible to join the west, China will surely take Siberia if they don't.  Not to mention all those people they pushed around might want revenge.
There comes a time when even good men must run up the black flag of anarchy and slit throats. - H.L. Mencken

Offline Hawkgirl

  • Alpha Female
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4291
  • Reputation: +186/-73
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2008, 11:43:10 PM »
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed crickets on the part of the left leaning liberals in regards to Russia's "unilateral" invasion of another country. After all Russia did act as an "invader" with express permission of the UN did it not? Where o where is the "outrage" from the liberal left?  :confused: Where o where are the cries of "Russia is a bully"?

Their fierce hate is directed only towards the US...other countries get a pass.

Yes, these are the people who will be voting in November.  If their silence alone doesn't send a red flag to the rest of us to get out there and vote in November...I don't know what will.

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23048
  • Reputation: +2232/-269
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2008, 11:45:18 PM »
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed crickets on the part of the left leaning liberals in regards to Russia's "unilateral" invasion of another country. After all Russia did act as an "invader" with express permission of the UN did it not? Where o where is the "outrage" from the liberal left?  :confused: Where o where are the cries of "Russia is a bully"?

Their fierce hate is directed only towards the US...other countries get a pass.

Yes, these are the people who will be voting in November.  If their silence alone doesn't send a red flag to the rest of us to get out there and vote in November...I don't know what will.
You two should see the monkey cage that is the Ron Paul forums.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline JohnMatrix

  • admirer of Sir Edward Tylor
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 396
  • Reputation: +106/-3013
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2008, 11:20:36 AM »
you're right, its not like the georgians did anything provocative at all.
Yes, how dare they try to join the EU and NATO over the trifling fabrication of supposed Russian aggression.

I think the only mistake the Georgians made was forgetting.......as my grandpa used to say......."if you are going to poke a sleeping bear, you'd better be prepared to kill it........"

doc

they tried.  Their plan was to blow the Roki tunnel, which is basically the only way in to south ossetia from the north, then attack.  The people that were supposed to blow the tunnel were caught, and were "persuaded" to tell the georgian army that it was blown.  If that tunnel had been destroyed, there would have been no way for russian troops to get in.
LadyLiberty does not like my mother because I speak Spanish to her in public.

yes snuggly bunny, i voted for RON PAUL.

Mr.Mann is obsessed with me.

Offline JohnMatrix

  • admirer of Sir Edward Tylor
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 396
  • Reputation: +106/-3013
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2008, 11:54:46 AM »
WASHINGTON -- President George W. Bush on Wednesday promised that U.S. naval forces would deliver humanitarian aid to war-torn Georgia before his administration had received approval from Turkey, which controls naval access to the Black Sea, or the Pentagon had planned a seaborne operation, U.S. officials said Thursday.



As of late Thursday, Ankara, a NATO ally, hadn’t cleared any U.S. naval vessels to steam to Georgia through the Bosporus and the Dardanelles, the narrow straits that connect the Mediterranean and the Black Seas, the officials said. Under the 1936 Montreaux Convention, countries must notify Turkey before sending warships through the straits.

Pentagon officials told McClatchy Newspapers that they were increasingly dubious that any U.S. Navy vessels would join the aid operation, in large part because the U.S.-based hospital ships likely to go, the USNS Comfort and the USNS Mercy, would take weeks to arrive.

“The president was writing checks to the Georgians without knowing what he had in the bank,” said a senior administration official

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080815/NEWS07/80814110
LadyLiberty does not like my mother because I speak Spanish to her in public.

yes snuggly bunny, i voted for RON PAUL.

Mr.Mann is obsessed with me.

Offline JohnMatrix

  • admirer of Sir Edward Tylor
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 396
  • Reputation: +106/-3013
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2008, 12:01:51 PM »
update on the clearance issue:

Washington has made no formal request from Ankara to allow two US hospital ships to sail through the Turkish Straits to Georgia, a US diplomat said Saturday, following reports that Turkey was dragging its feet on making a decision.
"The United States is considering a lot of actions" to help Georgia amid its conflict with Russia over South Ossetia, the spokeswoman of the US embassy in Ankara, Kathy Schallow, told AFP.

"But as far as I know, we have not made a formal decision about sending those two ships," she said, adding that "a formal request" for their passage through the Dardanelles and Bosphorus straits was not made either.

Turkish foreign ministry officials were not available for comment.

General James Cartwright, vice chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Friday that Washington's plans called for sending two US Navy hospital ships to Georgia, among other assistance.

Unnamed US officials told McClatchy Newspapers that the two hospital ships likely to go -- the Comfort and the Mercy -- would take weeks to arrive and complained that Turkey was "sluggish and unresponsive" in granting them a permission to sail through the straits to the Black Sea.

Turkey's NTV news channel reported Saturday that the two ships' tonnage exceeded the limits set by the 1936 Montreux Convention, which governs international traffic through the Bosphorus and Dardanelles straits.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080816152908.xe8987yi&show_article=1&catnum=0
LadyLiberty does not like my mother because I speak Spanish to her in public.

yes snuggly bunny, i voted for RON PAUL.

Mr.Mann is obsessed with me.

Offline Hawkgirl

  • Alpha Female
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4291
  • Reputation: +186/-73
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2008, 12:10:59 PM »
What are you talking about?  The US has sent wwo US C-17 military aircraft carrying supplies.  They are also using military planes to transport Georgians in Iraq back home.  Implying we haven't helped because we haven't been able to get our navy vessels through is misleading.

Offline JohnMatrix

  • admirer of Sir Edward Tylor
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 396
  • Reputation: +106/-3013
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2008, 12:23:24 PM »
What are you talking about?  The US has sent wwo US C-17 military aircraft carrying supplies.  They are also using military planes to transport Georgians in Iraq back home.  Implying we haven't helped because we haven't been able to get our navy vessels through is misleading.

Thats true.  I just read about the issue of getting clearance and i posted the articles.  It has nothing to do with the aircraft.
LadyLiberty does not like my mother because I speak Spanish to her in public.

yes snuggly bunny, i voted for RON PAUL.

Mr.Mann is obsessed with me.

Offline Crazy Horse

  • Army 0 Navy 34
  • Topic Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5571
  • Reputation: +236/-143
  • Sex, Booze and Bacon Minion
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #47 on: August 16, 2008, 05:01:04 PM »
The Mercy and Comfort are not warships.

Hmmm....................I wonder how many fast attacks could slip in there...........or maybe a SSGN.
You got off your ass, now get your wife off her back.

Offline Uhhuh35

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1110
  • Reputation: +94/-41
  • Subtle Like A Nuclear Weapon
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #48 on: August 16, 2008, 05:47:14 PM »
Via Free Republic:
http://www.thenational.ae/article/20080816/FOREIGN/689163001/-1/ART
"The Russian invasion of Georgia was not a spontaneous response to what Moscow called “genocide” in South Ossetia but had been planned in detail since April, according to Russia’s leading independent defence analyst.
The plans all but ensured that fighting would break out before the end of August, though the exact timing depended on how readily the Georgian government could be provoked into starting it, Pavel Felgenhauer states in a new analysis of the conflict.
It is generally agreed that the spark for the war was the Nato summit meeting in Bucharest in April at which Georgia was promised eventual membership of the western alliance, in the teeth of opposition from the Russians".
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
— Albert Einstein.

Offline TheSarge

  • Platoon Sergeant
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9557
  • Reputation: +411/-252
Re: Russia v. Georgia, US Airlift & Naval Manuevers: Should We be Nervous?
« Reply #49 on: August 16, 2008, 09:58:37 PM »
they left poti according to radio france, and Gori as well.

Ummm...not so much. 


Quote
Russian troops were deployed in large numbers west of Igoeti, in and around the strategic city of Gori, which endured an intense Russian bombardment during the fighting that began when Georgia attacked the breakaway region of South Ossetia.

Military vehicles on the side of the road were camouflaged with branches and a couple of soldiers slept on stretchers in the shade of the hulking machines.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,405041,00.html


But go ahead...as usual...tell us what the Russians are doing is nothing to be concerned over. :whatever:


Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years.  The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

If it walks like a donkey and brays like a donkey and smells like a donkey - it's Cold Warrior.  - PoliCon



Palin has run a state, a town and a commercial fishing operation. Obama ain't run nothin' but his mouth. - Mark Steyn