New Bergdahls defense: He didn't desert in protest...but he was right to do so

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

ReasonableToo (297 posts)

So what of the desertion charge?
   
I have absolutely no inside knowledge of Sgt. Bergdahl's life just before he was captured or during the time he was captured. We may never never know definitively.

I do know that MANY soldiers became aware of the atrocities that the US committed and did not want to take part. The tales told by returning soldiers are horrifying. Just imagine that you are there and are aware of these atrocities. Imagine that your group had just done something horrifying and illegal or you've been told of your next orders. Imagine that it is another horrifying atrocity.

What do you do? Just go along with it? Argue with your chain of command? Self-inflicted wound? Suicide? Refuse to participate? Walk away?

Would you walk away?

SamKnause (2,182 posts)

1. I don't mean this to be snarky.

I would have done my research before I enlisted.

These wars are not being fought to protect U.S. citizens or to help the countries we are invading.

They are being fought to protect what our government deems U.S. interests.

He apparently researched the Taliban and found them to his liking.

LisaLynne (14,203 posts)

2. Yeah, but many don't ...

because there is a lot of propaganda out there about how if you serve in the military you ARE protecting freedom and your country and all of that. These are usually pretty young people. Some of them don't have a lot of other options. Our culture is so pro-military I can't really fault anyone for buying into it and then realizing later what exactly being in the military can entail.

It's FOX News' fault people enlist.

SamKnause (2,182 posts)

4. I would have thought maybe his parents would have done

some research and had a talk about him enlisting.

ReasonableToo (297 posts)

5. I respect your opinion and agree that it would be good if folks made informed decisions
 
the pro-military propaganda is so rampant that there are many young people that sign up before they are aware.

Many go into the military with the best intentions of defending their country. Some are lured by all the promises of the recruiters. Some feel they have no other viable options.

I had an uncle that was given a choice between jail or enlisting back in the 70's. Hardly a time for a well-researched decision.

Regardless of the various ways and circumstances of how sailors and soldiers arrived in the Middle East, I would empathize with even the most researched, hung-ho decision makers when their eyes are opened and they have a change of heart.

FSogol (20,000 posts)

3. The desertion "charges" are nothing more than a kangaroo court from Fox news and their RW allies.
 
Until the military decides to charge Sgt. Bergdahl (which will never happen), there are no desertion charges.

No point in speculating or spreading RW talking points.

"What the ****, man?"

ReasonableToo (297 posts)

9. I often think about ALL the people in the military

We hear bits and pieces and even detailed accounts of what happens in war and in the military in general. About women raped, civilians murdered, unlawful orders, incompetence, bullying of people who don't practice the "right" religion.

Expressing some empathy for a soldier was not intended as "spreading RW talking points". I'm not accusing him of anything. I'm asking what would any of us do if we were over there at that time.

Quibbling faggot.

Just admit it: You know this is going to blow-up in your face so now your new tactic is to claim Bergdahl was a moral hero.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025047822

Remember this the next time you see RedGash of her fellow harpies screeching about male privilege, rape culture and patriarchy:

DU IS DEFENDING SOMEONE WHO MADE PREPARATIONS -- INCLUDING STUDYING THE PASHTO LANGUAGE -- IN ORDER TO DESERT TO THE TALIBAN; A GROUP THAT EXECUTES WOMEN, THROWS ACID IN THE FACE OF SCHOOL GIRL'S, MURDERS RAPE VICTIMS AND WILL NEVER ALLOW A WOMAN TO BE SEEN OUTSIDE THE HOME WITHOUT A MALE FAMILY MEMBER.

BERGDAHL CHOSE THE TALIBAN OVER AMERICA

Me?

I like my women a little more -- assertive.

[Rebel]

Remember this the next time you see RedGash of her fellow harpies screeching about male privilege, rape culture and patriarchy:

DU IS DEFENDING SOMEONE WHO MADE PREPARATIONS -- INCLUDING STUDYING THE PASHTO LANGUAGE -- IN ORDER TO DESERT TO THE TALIBAN; A GROUP THAT EXECUTES WOMEN, THROWS ACID IN THE FACE OF SCHOOL GIRL'S, MURDERS RAPE VICTIMS AND WILL NEVER ALLOW A WOMAN TO BE SEEN OUTSIDE THE HOME WITHOUT A MALE FAMILY MEMBER.

BERGDAHL CHOSE THE TALIBAN OVER AMERICA

Boom.


For you lurking DUmbasses.

[thundley4]

SamKnause (2,182 posts)

1. I don't mean this to be snarky.

I would have done my research before I enlisted.

These wars are not being fought to protect U.S. citizens or to help the countries we are invading.

They are being fought to protect what our government deems U.S. interests.

Right, because the Muslims we are fighting there have never targeted US citizens. You DUmmies and your MIC theories should be shot  for treason.

[DLR Pyro]

I like my women a little more -- assertive

Hot

[beefeater]

Hot

Careful, looks can be deceiving...

[J P Sousa]

Giffords looks like she is afraid of the thing. 

[DumbAss Tanker]

Giffords looks like she is afraid of the thing. 

Yeah.  She's weightlifting, not aiming.  Sarah's stance isn't an actual shooting stance either, but at least her face shows some self-assurance and an air of being knowledgeable enough about riffles to at least know there aren't hidden spikes in the buttstock, waiting to impale her.

[Karin]

Yeah, she looks unnatural. 

I saw their approach over at Discussionist as well.  "Good for him for deserting!"  DUmmies, do you really think this is the prevailing view of most Americans?  Do you think this will resonate? 

To add to SSB's list, they also forbid girls from being educated, and they marry them off at 9 years old, emulating their prophet. 

[USA4ME]

This soldier being a scumbag is only part of the story. What needs to be emphasized, and what the primitives refuse to engage, is that 5 terrorists were released and will likely find ways to kill Americans and others again. This is worse than a 5 to 1 trade. This probably just cost a few hundred, if not thousands, of peoples lives.

But with the cult followers, it's circle the wagons around Dear Leader time.

.

[DumbAss Tanker]

This soldier being a scumbag is only part of the story. What needs to be emphasized, and what the primitives refuse to engage, is that 5 terrorists were released and will likely find ways to kill Americans and others again. This is worse that a 5 to 1 trade. This probably just cost a few hundred, if not thousands, of peoples lives.

But with the cult followers, it's circle the wagons around Dear Leader time.

.

Yeah, it's a lot like making a trade to get Sad Sack back in exchange for the top five enemy generals we had.

[Dori]

Gov. Rick Perry wants to know if this trade was done just to get the VA story off the headlines. 

Sounds about right. 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Yeah, it's a lot like making a trade to get Sad Sack back in exchange for the top five enemy generals we had.

Grumblings for a "Presidential Command Climate Survey" keep rippling through the AO.

HINT FOR LURKERS: Non-Disclosure Agreements tend to not come with expiration dates. If so many are violating NDAs to speak about something they feel so strongly about it should serve as a shuddering slap of reality that there is a serious degradation of morale, order and discipline. You effectively have a mass disregard for legal orders and yet there is an avalanche of people who demand the truth come out.

[Gina]

Grumblings for a "Presidential Command Climate Survey" keep rippling through the AO.

HINT FOR LURKERS: Non-Disclosure Agreements tend to not come with expiration dates. If so many are violating NDAs to speak about something they feel so strongly about it should serve as a shuddering slap of reality that there is a serious degradation of morale, order and discipline. You effectively have a mass disregard for legal orders and yet there is an avalanche of people who demand the truth come out.

wow, I never thought of it that way 

[thundley4]

Grumblings for a "Presidential Command Climate Survey" keep rippling through the AO.

HINT FOR LURKERS: Non-Disclosure Agreements tend to not come with expiration dates. If so many are violating NDAs to speak about something they feel so strongly about it should serve as a shuddering slap of reality that there is a serious degradation of morale, order and discipline. You effectively have a mass disregard for legal orders and yet there is an avalanche of people who demand the truth come out.

This non-disclosure crap seems like SOP for the Obama Regime. The survivors from Benghazi are still unknown as is their whereabouts.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Another one; this time from one of their preferred talking point dispensaries.

Expect to see more of this as their allegiance to the traitor becomes more and more politically unpalatable.

babylonsister (147,234 posts)

Bergdahl Not Alone in Disillusionment
   
 https://www.freespeech.org/video/bergdahl-not-alone-disillusionment

 Democracy Now
Video at link~


Bergdahl Not Alone in Disillusionment


"We have to understand what {Bergdahl) was going through," says Charles Glass, a historian and former ABC News chief Middle East correspondent.. "The young person at the front line, having believed in his country's mission in Afghanistan and discovering it was not at all what he was told it was, and saw himself as part of the mechanism of oppression, of killing people, of going into villages, and when trying to take out enemy combatants was killing families. I hope that we'll understand what he went through and have compassion for him and his family."

Jefferson23 (16,437 posts)

2. It appears that way, doesn't it? The rush to condemn him is repugnant. n/t

TRANSLATION: If only we had more traitors.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025052434

[Chris_]

"We have to understand what {Bergdahl) was going through,"

No, we don't.  His actions speak for themselves.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Grumblings for a "Presidential Command Climate Survey" keep rippling through the AO.

HINT FOR LURKERS: Non-Disclosure Agreements tend to not come with expiration dates. If so many are violating NDAs to speak about something they feel so strongly about it should serve as a shuddering slap of reality that there is a serious degradation of morale, order and discipline. You effectively have a mass disregard for legal orders and yet there is an avalanche of people who demand the truth come out.

I personally hate NDAs since they are one of the most easily-abused tools available for covering generals' asses and hiding the truth from public scrutiny, or even from higher commanders.  The thing about using them to make a bunch of enlisted soldiers and junior officers zip their lips is that once their enlistment or AD commitment is up and they leave service (As a large proportion do, especially with force reductions ahead), an NDA that just covers some ambitious senior officer's ass isn't worth shit.  No US Attorney is going to take the guy to Federal court over it, and the military is not going to try to call the guy back to active duty to prosecute him even if he's still technically in the IRR. 

[J P Sousa]

I personally hate NDAs since they are one of the most easily-abused tools available for covering generals' asses and hiding the truth from public scrutiny, or even from higher commanders.  The thing about using them to make a bunch of enlisted soldiers and junior officers zip their lips is that once their enlistment or AD commitment is up and they leave service (As a large proportion do, especially with force reductions ahead), an NDA that just covers some ambitious senior officer's ass isn't worth shit.  No US Attorney is going to take the guy to Federal court over it, and the military is not going to try to call the guy back to active duty to prosecute him even if he's still technically in the IRR.

I hope you are right about this, we have seen how Obama intimidates and punishes everyone around him including the press.

.

[Dori]

They are being fought to protect what our government deems U.S. interests.

Can you say "haven for al Qaeda"?,  "Osama bin Laden"?, 9-11?

Or how about this?

The Taliban ruled from l996 - 2001. During their rule, they implemented the strictest form of Sharia law seen in any nation. They banned movies, dancing, music, clapping during sports events, kite flying, beard trimming, television, hanging pictures in homes, satellite dishes, chess, alcohol, anything made from human hair, nail polish, statues, dolls, pictures or photos of any living thing. The 'religious police' beat - with long sticks - any man who shaved or any woman not wearing her burqa properly. Adulterers were stoned to death, and the hands of thieves were amputated.

 Women were prohibited from working, and from wearing anything 'stimulating' including the Iranian chador, which was considered too revealing: the burqa became mandatory. They were forbidden to be in public without a close male relative - a mahram. In l998, restrictions became more severe, and the Taliban ordered that windows in Kabul be blackened so women could not be seen inside their homes from the outside. Women were forbidden to see a male doctor, even though very few women doctors were allowed to work.

Women were not allowed to deal with male shopkeepers, talk or shake hands with non-mahram males, appear on their balconies, be on television or radio or attend public gatherings, laugh loudly or wear high heeled shoes (women should not be heard), gather for religious festivals (or gather at all), wash clothes by a river or in a public place, use cosmetics (fingers with nail polish were sometimes cut off), wear perfume, or wear brightly colored clothes or flared pants under the burqa. Women not clothed 'properly', or seen without a mahram were subject to whippings, beatings, and verbal abuse. Women were publicly whipped for having non-covered ankles. Public stoning was the punishment for women for having sex outside of marriage, whether or not adultery was a factor.

http://www.forgetthespin.com/archives2008/women_afghanistan.html

 

[GOBUCKS]

They are being fought to protect what our government deems U.S. interests.

For what other reason is a war ever fought?

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Can you say "haven for al Qaeda"?,  "Osama bin Laden"?, 9-11?

Or how about this?

http://www.forgetthespin.com/archives2008/women_afghanistan.html

And this is who Bergdahl decided to join over the US.

This is who the Proglodytes are claiming is an acceptable trade for a deserter.