By the Lord's long and floppy ears, they're insane. They're all insane

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Pretzel_Warrior (6,457 posts)

Ok. the message on DU is clear. Be glad with what you might get, serf!
 
Yesterday, there was a link to a discussion about college degrees. Although the article was saying we're doing a disservice to the less fortunate by telling them higher education is a ticket out of poverty, the thread also seemed to veer into "education is not the key to prosperity".

Now today we have a thread saying "we shouldn't try to follow our dreams and do what we love--we should take that shitty sales job or become a garbage collector."

These are symptoms that our economic and education systems have been ****ed up for far too long.

I will be telling my son to explore many paths in life and find out what he is good at and loves doing. He should try to make a career of that and get proper education to do so. I will be telling him how important higher education is in our increasingly complex world. To me, education in college programs is a great antidote to the lack of critical thinking skills in high school and the faith-based bullshit of religion.

I have no problem that others really like working on cars and they really want to go to a trade school to learn how to work on cars. It can be a nice living. But unless there are unions to protect jobs, that person is a specialist at the mercy of capital. As soon as the ownder jerks the job away to a new area, that person may find themselves unemployed with a very difficult way back into the work force.

No matter what people say, you SHOULD look for things that interest you and make you feel good about life while paying the bills. For some, that means being a biochemist looking for new cures. For others, that may mean building homes or working in landscape design.

Do not allow yourself to be a mindless cog in the machine of capitalism.

tazkcmo (1,105 posts)

1. A college degree

A college degree is valuable not only because of the subject matter but also because it shows the holder has accomplished a long term task. I have a friend that was bemoaning the fact that he chose to pursue a degree in photography instead of something more "practical". I quickly gave him a fake kick in his private parts and told him he should be proud of his degree due to the difficulty in obtaining one and the accomplishment it represents. Besides, he'll be really famous after he's dead!

Nuclear Unicorn (9,888 posts)

3. Everyone should have a Master's degree to haul away their own garbage.

I have no problem that others really like working on cars and they really want to go to a trade school to learn how to work on cars. It can be a nice living. But unless there are unions to protect jobs, that person is a specialist at the mercy of capital. As soon as the ownder jerks the job away to a new area, that person may find themselves unemployed with a very difficult way back into the work force.

If I understand correctly this is a (justified) broadside against the outsourcing of jobs. While I am sympathetic to the sentiment you chose a really poor example. Auto repair jobs will be located where the autos are located, not elsewhere. No one is going to drive their car to Thailand or another state or even the next county over for repairs, ergo auto repair jobs will not be moving.

No matter what people say, you SHOULD look for things that interest you and make you feel good about life while paying the bills. For some, that means being a biochemist looking for new cures. For others, that may mean building homes or working in landscape design.

Please show us the people who like crawling in sewers, digging ditches, breaking their backs in resource extraction jobs, etc. Yet these are all necessary occupations. Some people take jobs because they need the money and other people are willing to pay to have the unpleasant task performed by someone else.

TBF (21,572 posts)

9. Straight from the right wing capitalist playbook -
 
"Yet these are all necessary occupations. Some people take jobs because they need the money and other people are willing to pay to have the unpleasant task performed by someone else"

Well, grasshopper, maybe in a resource based economy we'd get rid of the currency and let machines do the unpleasant tasks. Instead of turning human beings into the "someone else" that has to perform all the tasks you don't want to dirty your pretty little hands with ...

DAFUQ?

Nuclear Unicorn (9,888 posts)

11. You conjure some fiction of a world that doesn't exist just to insult me?

Please show me this world run by self-replicating, self-sustaining machines wherein no person is made to work that I have apparently stymied with a single post on the internet. Lemme guess, I'm also to be damned as a capital hoarder because I refuse to kill that goose that lays all those golden eggs.

Grow-up.

TBF (21,572 posts)

12. lol - hit a nerve, huh. Not surprised. nt

What?

grntuscarora (576 posts)

16. College should not be as expensive as it is.

Cost should not determine who can go and who cannot.
My 16 year old is hoping to attend college, and we'll help her in every way we can, financially.
I'm not concerned if the degree will result in her making a pile of money. If holding a degree will make it less likely she'll be taken advantage of by the ptb, and more likely that she'll recognize injustices and have the confidence to push back against those injustices, then I'll figure the education was worth it. How she earns a living is of much less importance to her dad and me.
This trend to discourage young people from attending college, while understandable from a financial aspect, is frightening if you think about where it will lead. Only the well to do will attend, and ever more power will be wielded by the wealthy over the less fortunate.
The OPs use of the term "serfs" will be sadly accurate, at this rate.

DWYL = Do What You Like

phantom power (23,405 posts)

18. The "DWYL" OP was about how "DWYL" is used to blame the 99% for their problems.
 
It's really just another variation on the old "poor people are poor because of their own moral failings" meme.

PW penned a stupid OP but how deranged do you have to be to call it victim-blaming?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024363439

[thundley4]

DUmmies want to earn a living for doing what they like even if it has no value to anyone else.  hey want to be paid for existing so the college degree thing is just a mask for their true feelings.

Get a decent job or career that you can make a living and then do what you enjoy on your days off.

[landofconfusion80]

Now let's not be too hard on them guys.  If we didn't have primitives going to college, we'd have a whole lot of poverty stricken art, sociology and drama professors.

[Skul]

I have no problem that others really like working on cars and they really want to go to a trade school to learn how to work on cars. It can be a nice living. But unless there are unions to protect jobs, that person is a specialist at the mercy of capital. As soon as the ownder jerks the job away to a new area, that person may find themselves unemployed with a very difficult way back into the work force.

Why would an owner pull jobs from a $38/hr, full bennie, UNION member and relocate to where the wage is $20/hr.
That's just crazy talk.
Pu**yWhipped just doesn't get it.

[98ZJUSMC]

grntuscarora (576 posts)

16. College should not be as expensive as it is.

Cost should not determine who can go and who cannot.
My 16 year old is hoping to attend college, and we'll help her in every way we can, financially.  I'm not concerned if the degree will result in her making a pile of money.

Dirty Capitalist Pig.

If holding a degree will make it less likely she'll be taken advantage of by the ptb,    and more likely that she'll recognize injustices    and have the confidence to push back against those injustices,  then I'll figure the education was worth it.

Oh puh-leeeze.....

How she earns a living is of much less importance to her dad and me.  This trend to discourage young people from attending college, while understandable from a financial aspect, is frightening if you think about where it will lead. Only the well to do will attend, and ever more power will be wielded by the wealthy over the less fortunate.

Yes, so let's give people pieces of paper that aren't worth sh*t, tell them they're the bestest, brightestest, most wonderfulness humans eVAH!!! for attending classes    that appeal to hypersexual emotionalism, indoctrinate inaccurate versions of history and require next to nothing in the way of logic, simple mathematics or problem solving.  But, I take it that they will become top notch victims.  Great.

The OPs use of the term "serfs" will be sadly accurate, at this rate.

You have no idea.  None.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Now let's not be too hard on them guys.  If we didn't have primitives going to college, we'd have a whole lot of poverty stricken art, sociology and drama professors.

According to TBF we'll have robots doing all  the hard work why not let the machines handle the liberal arts as well? All we need to do is write the perfect Bullshit Algorithm.

[Skul]

According to TBF we'll have robots doing all  the hard work why not let the machines handle the liberal arts as well? All we need to do is write the perfect Bullshit Algorithm.

Been done already.  >>>>

[Bad Dog]

Been done already.  >>>>

H5, Well played.

[Dori]

How she earns a living is of much less importance to her dad and me.  This trend to discourage young people from attending college, while understandable from a financial aspect, is frightening if you think about where it will lead. Only the well to do will attend, and ever more power will be wielded by the wealthy over the less fortunate.

You mean frightening like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg?

 

[jukin]

My goodness that thread demonstrates why DUmmys are DUmb.

I bought this old dirty sock for $20 but it made me feel good to buy it. Sadly, I bought it with a 10% interest rate loan. Hey I feel good about it and when I sell the old dirty sock for well nothing, I will blame evil republicans for it. Oh and I will ask people that are sane to give me $35 for the money I lost or.... NOT FAIR!!!!

[DumbAss Tanker]

"Mommy, Nuclear Unicorn is being mean to me!  Waaaahhhhh!"

 

Of course you can study anything you want or that makes you happy.  Why anyone would hire you to do that thing, what jobs in that field may pay and how many of those jobs there might be, well, those are entirely different questions.

[Carl]

Hate to break it to you DUmbasses but sitting on a couch,smoking dope and playing video games is never going to be considered adding value to a society.

[JohnnyReb]

Hate to break it to you DUmbasses but sitting on a couch,smoking dope and playing video games is never going to be considered adding value to a society.

So they will just vote democrat and demand more government freebies. You don't need a free college education to do that DUmmies.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

"Mommy, Nuclear Unicorn is being mean to me!  Waaaahhhhh!"

 

Of course you can study anything you want or that makes you happy.  Why anyone would hire you to do that thing, what jobs in that field may pay and how many of those jobs there might be, well, those are entirely different questions.

I think I found your mole:

lumberjack_jeff (27,092 posts)

22. The point of employment is *selling* the hours of your life as profitably as possible.

It's not to kid yourself that you're fulfilling a set of personal goals; employment is about fulfilling the employers goals.

I suggest to my kids configuring ones work life in such a way that you become as financially independent as possible as soon as possible. Only then can you be sure that you're following your own passion.

College is marketed two ways: a) an investment in greater earning potential, and b) a fulfilling personal quest for knowledge. If you see college as the former, then everything becomes a math problem. If you see college as the latter, then it's a lifestyle purchase, no different from a vacation or a stint in the peace corps.

If college were necessity to acquire critical thinking skills, then why are so many Starbucks baristas college graduates? Even a smidgen of critical thinking skill could make a person realize that the quality of life a $11/hour job will provide is better if one doesn't have a $400/month student loan.

And your fourth paragraph is a fundamental fail of the critical thinking test. Name me a college major that insulates the student from the mercy of capital to a greater degree than auto mechanics.

Mechanics, electricians, plumbers, repairmen of all stripes; they thrive because a bachelors degree in social media doesn't render the student smart enough to fix their own shit.

**** yer' "critical thinking skills".

The infection is spreading:

Nuclear Unicorn (9,888 posts)

20. I'm not sure who "the rest of us" is supposed to mean.
 
My father never got to go to college. He started working in a union as an apprentice carpenter until he became a General Contractor and started his own business. My brother never got to go to college, he went to work in the restaurant business and moved up into management. My husband never went to college. He entered the Army as a Medic right after high school and after leaving the Army he went to work servicing diesel machinery in the field.

Of my closest relatives my FIL has an MBA and he works like an animal. My MIL (now passed) had a degree in Education but chose to be a homemaker. My step-mother is a CPA, now retired.

My dad helped subsidize my college but I did take out some loans. Life's circumstances came along and while my husband is willing to pay for me to return to college and finish my 4-year degree I cannot justify the expense in my heart. I would LOVE to be a professional writer but at this point in time family obligations -- which I joyfully accept -- aren't leaving an opportunity for that pursuit. My first job during my college years was as an Administrative Assistant, not for my creative talents but because I could properly format a business letter. During the 2009 recession most of my co-workers were laid off but I remained because my boss thought I had a little moxie on the ball so he groomed me to be his assistant Project Manager. I actually appreciate the twists and turns.

I fully understand this all just anecdotal. I don't feel cheated and I certainly don't begrudge anyone who can pursue their passions (in fact my husband and my brother keep toying with the idea of opening a restaurant together because my husband is such a good cook) but the fact remains: if someone gets to pursue their passions they are indulging in a luxury that most do not get to enjoy. There's no harm in that; God bless 'em if they get to live their dream. Find your dream and chase it with all your heart and soul and be the best at it. But if people ever mistake luxury for entitlement they will only disappoint themselves and probably piss off everyone else who isn't as fortunate.

obxhead (7,518 posts)

26. I've recently discovered professional lawn care.
 
I work at a golf course and found that I LOVE the work. I spend every day making things grow. I get to shape that growth and see it change from day to day.

It's hard work, but I love it. I'm hoping to start turf school next fall to expand my own personal knowledge and possibly build my own company within the industry.

Will I ever get to 100k+ a year? I doubt it, but I might be able to squeak out a middle class life being my own boss.

I've heard for 2 decades that if I do what I love I'll never have to work a day in my life. That's BS, but I see the possibility of not minding having to work.

I'll certainly settle for that.

Blasphemers! The lot of them!

[I_B_Perky]

Hate to break it to you DUmbasses but sitting on a couch,smoking dope and playing video games is never going to be considered adding value to a society.

Not to mention getting a degree in Womyns Studies Carl.


Hey dummies? The high paying majors are high paying for a reason... they are tough. When you get a major in Engineering, CS, Math, etc... those people do not have any problem getting a job. Wonder why that is?  Think dummies, think!!!!  Maybe it is because they are... well tough?

Personally I think a good portion of the people that go to college should spend their time learning a skill. Heating and cooling is a good skill. Plumbing is a good skill. My granddad on mom's side was a plumber and made lots of money. Dad was an electrician and made pretty good money.  If you learn a skill and work hard, you can make good money too. Unfortunately for you dummies... you tend to forget the work hard part.

Then we got the tats and the eyebrow piercings. Yep... that is going to get you a job.

Buncha losers.

[jukin]

lumberjack_jeff (27,092 posts)

22. The point of employment is *selling* the hours of your life as profitably as possible.

It's not to kid yourself that you're fulfilling a set of personal goals; employment is about fulfilling the employers goals.

I suggest to my kids configuring ones work life in such a way that you become as financially independent as possible as soon as possible. Only then can you be sure that you're following your own passion.

College is marketed two ways: a) an investment in greater earning potential, and b) a fulfilling personal quest for knowledge. If you see college as the former, then everything becomes a math problem. If you see college as the latter, then it's a lifestyle purchase, no different from a vacation or a stint in the peace corps.

If college were necessity to acquire critical thinking skills, then why are so many Starbucks baristas college graduates? Even a smidgen of critical thinking skill could make a person realize that the quality of life a $11/hour job will provide is better if one doesn't have a $400/month student loan.

And your fourth paragraph is a fundamental fail of the critical thinking test. Name me a college major that insulates the student from the mercy of capital to a greater degree than auto mechanics.

Mechanics, electricians, plumbers, repairmen of all stripes; they thrive because a bachelors degree in social media doesn't render the student smart enough to fix their own shit.

**** yer' "critical thinking skills".

 

I'm quitting the internet for the night and starting heavy drinking.

IYKWIM

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

davidthegnome (2,108 posts)

27. I come from a family of Educators.

Primarily English teachers - two grandparents, a sister, a father who went to school for English, but was never allowed to teach in the more relaxed manner he had hoped to.

So I think I can safely say that I know the value of education, and I will say that it is a great and wonderful thing. I had never been so optimistic, so hopeful, so full of energy and enthusiasm as the year I was able to finally enroll in college. The idea that, finally, after years of struggling through depression, overwhelming financial struggle and so on... that I would finally be able to move forward and live better, was beyond uplifting. It was the difference between night and day - between hope and despair.

Strange that it was only last year, it feels like it was so very much longer ago, as if I were a younger, happier, more inspired person. I suppose I was, when it comes down to it. After nearly a decade of spending all of my time either working, or locked up in my room reading, I was finally out among the world again, I re-entered society in a way that moved me more than I can say, that inspired my writing to greater heights, that led to members of my family who had given up on me starting to believe in me again. I can't tell you what it's like to be told by someone who long ago gave up on you as a lost cause, that they are now... "Very proud".

I read the works of Horace Mann - and was inspired by them. I read the works of more modern academics like John Taylor Gatto - and argued passionately against them. I wrote essays that never earned less than an A - and I had not been in a classroom, had not known formal education, for more than a decade.

It was student loans and pell grants that enabled me to do this - along with significant help from my parents in getting started. I lived in a tiny apartment (more of a slum, really, it was all I could afford) that I loved, I bought the cheapest furniture I could find from local thrift stores and Catholic charities - and I think I made it look good. I, who had long been a miserable, hopeless person, had changed so completely that old friends did not recognize me anymore. I had some measure of independence, pride, self respect.. I believed I had a future.

That dream slowly came to an end. The economic devastation of this modern time, was the key factor in what brought me back down. There were no jobs available that I could work with my school schedule. The work study positions were all taken up more quickly than I would have thought possible - and I was on foot. Every day I would walk a few miles, filling out applications and hoping for a phone call. I did this for months... with the belief that, sooner or later, it would pay off. It didn't. There were too many applicants, too many struggling people - and some of them pushed even harder than I did.

Ultimately, what happened was that I ended up owing money, in addition to student loans, that I could never hope to repay - and a significant amount would have to be paid before I could apply for another semester. There were so many days and nights when I could barely afford to eat - on some I just didn't, if I got lucky, my Father or sister would occasionally take me to lunch. When I did shop, it was at dollar stores, and I survived largely on some of the most terrible junk, processed food imaginable. You wouldn't believe how far you can go with tap water and a twelve pack of ramen... not something I suggest... ever.

I remember standing in the financial aid office, begging for more help... I remember it taking every bit of determination and will power I had, not to break down sobbing like a child when they told me there was nothing they could do.

So let me say that, for the vast majority of us... hell, for anyone who is willing and able, college is a wonderful thing. Higher education is fantastic. It is just not affordable, for the vast majority of us. You can give it everything you have (and then some) and still end up just like me. Back home with mom and dad, working for 8 bucks an hour, no health insurance, no friends, no social life. My life is divided, primarily, between working, reading - and frequenting sites like DU, searching for hope, an escape, something to lift me out of my state of depression.

If this noble pursuit of higher education, of knowledge... if this is the sort of dream that should be available to all (as I sincerely, profoundly believe it should be) then something must be done. I do not know what the solution is - but I believe it lies somewhere within our priorities and principles, that we might realize that educating our people is more important than draining them of every dollar, or every working hour we can get out of them. Perhaps we might realize that a more educated populace would benefit our society as a whole - through, in turn, educating our children, inventing things, coming up with cures for diseases, or music that blows the mind and inspires the heart.

It's all about the money, Warrior. Even our system of education (particularly higher education, which doesn't really have a "free" option that I know of) is largely a cog in the machine of capitalism. The problem is... perhaps, ultimately, capitalism itself. When profit comes first, everyone loses. I know. I've lost almost everything - if not for my generous family, I'd have nothing at all. Not even a place to live.

I read the whole thing.

I still can't find the part where I'm supposed to feel bad for the Proglodyte.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Dark n Stormy Knight (1,835 posts)

30. "When profit comes first, everyone loses." Unfortunatley, not everybody.
 
It's those few who profit who are in charge of our world.

davidthegnome (2,110 posts)

32. I respectfully disagree.

To some extent...

In their shortsightedness, they lose, I fear, even more than the rest of us. They lose their humanity. Life becomes a numbers game, a competition to make as much as you can, no matter what you have to do, who's ass you have to kiss, or who you have to hurt in the process. Their lives would ultimately be far richer and far better if they recognized the value of empathy, compassion, generosity - of helping to lift others out of despair and poverty.

One thing I learned in my sociology class (during my one year of college) was that the suicide rate among WASPs - particularly the upper class ones, is very high, higher than those who are far poorer financially, who's lives have much more hardship. I believe the reason for this is their lack of humanity in their pursuit of financial wealth as both a means and an end.

They may be in charge of the world - but they're doing a damn poor job of it, wouldn't you say?

Proof that what Proglodytes want isn't to lift up the poor but to drag everyone else down.

[Big Dog]

davidthegnome (2,108 posts)

I think I can safely say that I know the value of education, and I will say that it is a great and wonderful thing.

Oh, do tell, DUmbass.

I remember standing in the financial aid office, begging for more help... I remember it taking every bit of determination and will power I had, not to break down sobbing like a child when they told me there was nothing they could do.

Just like a junkie without the money for a dime bag. "But, I neeeeeeed it!" Except the junkie doesn't expect hardworking taxpayers to subsidize his heroin habit.

So let me say that, for the vast majority of us... hell, for anyone who is willing and able, college is a wonderful thing. Higher education is fantastic. It is just not affordable, for the vast majority of us. You can give it everything you have (and then some) and still end up just like me. Back home with mom and dad, working for 8 bucks an hour, no health insurance, no friends, no social life. My life is divided, primarily, between working, reading - and frequenting sites like DU, searching for hope, an escape, something to lift me out of my state of depression.

Somebody should have gone to welding school, and read Horace Mann on the weekends.

It's all about the money, Warrior. Even our system of education (particularly higher education, which doesn't really have a "free" option that I know of) is largely a cog in the machine of capitalism. The problem is... perhaps, ultimately, capitalism itself. When profit comes first, everyone loses. I know. I've lost almost everything - if not for my generous family, I'd have nothing at all. Not even a place to live.

Funny thing, capitalism. It won't pay a liberal arts shitweasel to sit around in his underwear and read Horace Mann.

And this DUmmy sees the solution, and feeeeels it is the problem. I have news for you, DUmmy. If you don't have the skill or experience an employers need to generate capital from your presence, that employer won't hire you. The corollary to that is, if you have an Obama bumper sticker on your car and post at the DUmp, don't expect to be hired by a businessman who is being ass-raped by King Hussein.

[USA4ME]

Look primitives, if you can't make it under capitalism then you aren't going to be any better off under any other type of "ism." Best you can hope for is to drag everyone else down to your level, because you've already demonstrated you can't rise to the level of others. And should that happen, they will resent you and find ways to kill you, and your deaths will be deserved and welcomed.

.

[Chris_]

Look primitives, if you can't make it under capitalism then you aren't going to be any better off under any other type of "ism." Best you can hope for is to drag everyone else down to your level, because you've already demonstrated you can't rise to the level of others. And should that happen, they will resent you and find ways to kill you, and your deaths will be deserved and welcomed.

.

But Fidel gave them all rice cookers.

[JohnnyReb]

But Fidel gave them all rice cookers.

Wonderful.....now who is supposed to give them the rice?

[Carl]

Did I see a couple of DUmbasses dip their toes in the pool of reality? 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Wonderful.....now who is supposed to give them the rice?

The rich people that they taxed into annihilation.

Oh...wait...

...I don't think they thought this through.

[txradioguy]

Pretzel_Warrior (6,457 posts)

Ok. the message on DU is clear. Be glad with what you might get, serf!

 

Nuclear Unicorn (9,888 posts)

11. You conjure some fiction of a world that doesn't exist just to insult me?

Please show me this world run by self-replicating, self-sustaining machines wherein no person is made to work that I have apparently stymied with a single post on the internet. Lemme guess, I'm also to be damned as a capital hoarder because I refuse to kill that goose that lays all those golden eggs.

Grow-up.

 

And your fourth paragraph is a fundamental fail of the critical thinking test. Name me a college major that insulates the student from the mercy of capital to a greater degree than auto mechanics.

Mechanics, electricians, plumbers, repairmen of all stripes; they thrive because a bachelors degree in social media doesn't render the student smart enough to fix their own shit.

**** yer' "critical thinking skills".

You know...that little spat reminds me of something....

But they had not gone twenty yards when they stopped short. An uproar of voices was coming from the farmhouse. They rushed back and looked through the window again. Yes, a violent quarrel was in progress. There were shoutings, bangings on the table, sharp suspicious glances, furious denials. The source of the trouble appeared to be that Napoleon and Mr. Pilkington had each played an ace of spades simultaneously.

Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.