Dummy Fails History...Again

[Alpha Mare]

yurbud  (1000+ posts)        Sat Oct-03-09 06:25 PM
Original message
Myths about the Fall of the Berlin Wall (& why it went up)
 I always find it odd that we did ANYTHING to make the commies look bad--if their system was so inferior, wouldn't it be self-evident?





The West was bedeviling the East with a vigorous campaign of recruiting East German professionals and skilled workers, who had been educated at the expense of the Communist government. This eventually led to a serious labor and production crisis in the East. As one indication of this, the New York Times reported in 1963: "West Berlin suffered economically from the wall by the loss of about 60,000 skilled workmen who had commuted daily from their homes in East Berlin to their places of work in West Berlin." (New York Times, June 27, 1963, p.12)

During the 1950s, American coldwarriors in West Germany instituted a crude campaign of sabotage and subversion against East Germany designed to throw that country's economic and administrative machinery out of gear. The CIA and other US intelligence and military services recruited, equipped, trained and financed German activist groups and individuals, of West and East, to carry out actions which ran the spectrum from terrorism to juvenile delinquency; anything to make life difficult for the East German people and weaken their support of the government; anything to make the commies look bad.


***

In 1999, USA Today reported: "When the Berlin Wall crumbled, East Germans imagined a life of freedom where consumer goods were abundant and hardships would fade. Ten years later, a remarkable 51% say they were happier with communism." (USA Today, October 11, 1999, p.1.)

About the same time a new Russian proverb was born: "Everything the Communists said about Communism was a lie, but everything they said about capitalism turned out to be the truth."

http://counterpunch.com/blum10022009.html
 

Fearless  (1000+ posts)      Sat Oct-03-09 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. Communism and capitalism in practice equate to exactly the same thing...
 It just has different labels. Government and Big Business. One or the other controls everything, and it isn't that the group that does the controlling is bad, it's that the group is doing ALL of the controlling.
 

By 1948 the democratic Allies and the communist Soviet Union argued over how to govern Berlin. Berlin was in the Soviet part of Germany, an island surrounded by capitalism. Western nations assumed they would have free access to the city. But on April 1, 1948 the Soviet Union blockaded routes in and out of East Germany, trapping 2 million West Berliners with little food or fuel. The Allies countered with the Berlin Airlift, flying planes with food and supplies into West Berlin for 462 straight days. The Soviets lifted the blockade in 1949.
 
Also in 1949, Western and Eastern Germany formed separate governments. In the 1950s, the West-East gap continued to widen. In West Berlin and West Germany, rebuilding boomed. In the East, food and housing were scarce. People began "voting with their feet" – fleeing to the West. "I no longer had any reason to stay on in what I had considered my homeland," said Walter Kocher, after his East Berlin business had been seized by the government.
More than 3 million people left East Germany for a better life in the West. By 1961, the communist government knew it had to stop the exodus.

http://www.newseum.org/cybernewseum/exhibits/berlin_wall/index.htm

Because of dissatisfaction with the economic and political conditions (forced collectivization of agriculture, repression of private trade, supply gaps), an increasing number of people left the GDR. From January to the beginning of August 1961, about 160,000 refugees were counted. Also, the international political situation was tense. On 1958-11-27, the Soviets (Khrushchev) had delivered their Berlin ultimatum, demanding that the western allies should withdraw their troops from West Berlin and that West Berlin should become a "Free City" within six months.

The reaction of the western allies (to the wall) was moderate, since the three essentials of the American policy regarding Berlin were not affected: presence of allied troops, free access to Berlin and the right of self-determination of the West Berliners.

http://userpage.chemie.fu-berlin.de/BIW/wall.html

[The Village Idiot]

DUmmies being dummies again

[franksolich]

No point in trying to explain the facts of history to the primitives, madam.

Remember, they have a pretty low cerebral capacity, the primitives.

[The Village Idiot]

No point in trying to explain the facts of history to the primitives, madam.

Remember, they have a pretty low cerebral capacity, the primitives.

They're like a 286 processor running on 2MB of RAM with a 3.6 baud modem

[Chris]

They're like a 286 processor running on 2MB of RAM with a 3.6 baud modem

2MB with a 286?  You bourgeois tyrant... we had to survive with 1MB and we were lucky to have that.

[Alpha Mare]

No point in trying to explain the facts of history to the primitives, madam.

Remember, they have a pretty low cerebral capacity, the primitives.

You're right.  Correcting history when new facts are proven is fine with me.  But this constant 'revising' to fit one's agenda really ticks me off.

[The Village Idiot]

Has anyone seen the stories than monkeys evolved from man and not the other way around??

This is what happened when liberals broke away from the family tree thousands of years ago. Now they're trying it again.

[ColonialMarine0431]

Yeah. East Germany was a paradise. That's why this guy risked his life crossing the barbed wire into west Berlin before the Commies erected the wall. My family on my mother's side is German, I speak German and I know Germany. My major in college was German history. This primitive is clueless. Another American public school jackass who unfortunately is allowed to vote.

[blitzkrieg_17]

No point in trying to explain the facts of history to the primitives, madam.

Remember, they have a pretty low cerebral capacity, the primitives.

No arguing with a True Believer, Frank. Reality and DU, never the two shall meet.

[franksolich]

Yeah. East Germany was a paradise. That's why this guy risked his life crossing the barbed wire into west Berlin before the Commies erected the wall. My family on my mother's side is German, I speak German and I know Germany. My major in college was German history. This primitive is clueless. Another American public school jackass who unfortunately is allowed to vote.

Thanks, sir; I had been looking for that particular photograph, since it's one of the most impressive photographs of the 20th century.

Some time ago, I checked this guy out, the one leaping over the barbed wire.

It wasn't a spontaneous leap; he had thought about it for a while, when pacing back and forth, waiting for the opportune moment.  A few times, his officers sensed he was up to something, but he was pretty careful.  Someone on the other side sensed he was going to leap, and ran to find a photographer, which is how this happened to be snapped.

The guy's name was Conrad Schumann (100% sure of the first name, only 50% sure of the last name), and he was, I think, 19 years old at the time.  He was from Saxony, in eastern Germany.  The drama of his pacing back-and-forth lasted some hours, before he jumped.

He flourished and prospered in western Germany, but about five (?) years ago, due to, apparently, marital problems, he committed suicide.

A most memorable photograph.

[ColonialMarine0431]

Thanks, sir; I had been looking for that particular photograph, since it's one of the most impressive photographs of the 20th century.

Some time ago, I checked this guy out, the one leaping over the barbed wire.

It wasn't a spontaneous leap; he had thought about it for a while, when pacing back and forth, waiting for the opportune moment.  A few times, his officers sensed he was up to something, but he was pretty careful.  Someone on the other side sensed he was going to leap, and ran to find a photographer, which is how this happened to be snapped.

The guy's name was Conrad Schumann (100% sure of the first name, only 50% sure of the last name), and he was, I think, 19 years old at the time.  He was from Saxony, in eastern Germany.  The drama of his pacing back-and-forth lasted some hours, before he jumped.

He flourished and prospered in western Germany, but about five (?) years ago, due to, apparently, marital problems, he committed suicide.

A most memorable photograph.

Yes. Conrad Schumann. The West Germans were yelling Komm rüber! ("come over"). He ran and leapt to freedom. He settled in Bavaria, but ended uo hanging himself in his orchard due to severe depression.

[The Village Idiot]

A most memorable photograph.

definitely had a better life on the good side than if he had stayed over there.

We could only hope the commies will put walls around themselves these days, I think they actually learned something in 70 years.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Yeah, we all know what an incredible economic powerhouse the DDR became once the Wall went up, and those professionals couldn't go to the Bundesrepublik anymore, don't we?

 

[USA4ME]

The yurbud primitive came over to our old home a few years ago.  He was as stupid as they get.  I see some things never change.

.

[diesel driver]

The yurbud primitive came over to our old home a few years ago.  He was as stupid as they get.  I see some things never change.

.

Back in the late 70's, we had a couple of hippie/DUmmie types living and working on our farm.  Don and Radda were their names.  He looked like the hippie teacher on "Beavis & Butthead", she looked like something out of Woodstock.  Neither shaved, but at least they did bathe, so as not to scare the cows....

Don would take half a day to hose out the barn after the morning milking, something I could do in 30 minutes.  On his day off, he spent half of it jogging out to the highway and back, about 2 miles round trip.  I would pass him on my motorcycle (1975 Suzuki RM-125) when I'd go to the end of the road to get the mail.  Don fancied himself to be an aspiring writer, and although he tried to articulate himself by using big words and fanciful dialog, he never spoke more than one syllable of anyone's name.  (My brothers' names were Danny and David.  Don always called them Dan and Dave.  Radda was Rad, Artie was Art, etc.)....

We had automatic take-offs that removed the milkers from the cows when they were finished giving milk.  It consisted of a vacuum cylinder with a plastic-coated cable attached to the milker.  One day, one of the cables came out of the cylinder, and Don was telling me that the cable "became two".  I looked at him with a blank stare and asked, "You mean it broke?", and he replied, "Well, yeah."  

Before they left, they bought a VW bus with a 4-speed manual transmission, even though neither had ever driven a vehicle, nor had a license.  Radda took drivers training and got a license, and took it upon herself to operate and maintain the bus.  Don was either too "important" to do any of that, or too stupid, I'm still not sure which.  However, here's their solution when they changed the oil on how to put 2 1/2 quarts into the crankcase....
They put 3 in, and drained 1/2 out....  

When they left to go back to New York, I overheard Radda's mother telling her that when they got on the interstate, just stay in the left-hand lane....

I still wonder if they made it to New York....

[Chris]

Before they left, they bought a VW bus with a 4-speed manual transmission, even though neither had ever driven a vehicle, nor had a license.  Radda took drivers training and got a license, and took it upon herself to operate and maintain the bus.  Don was either too "important" to do any of that, or too stupid, I'm still not sure which.  However, here's their solution when they changed the oil on how to put 2 1/2 quarts into the crankcase....
They put 3 in, and drained 1/2 out.... 

When they left to go back to New York, I overheard Radda's mother telling her that when they got on the interstate, just stay in the left-hand lane....

Wow.  Some people....  I'm speechless.

[diesel driver]

Wow.  Some people....  I'm speechless.

And people wonder why this country is in the shape it is, with people like that at the helm.... 

[JohnnyReb]

And people wonder why this country is in the shape it is, with people like that at the helm.... 

Ain't that a fact......We should buy one of those kiddie seats with a steering wheel on it for the DUmmies. Then they could sit over there and spin the steering whell to there hearts delight while we ignored them and went about our business.

[jukin]

Having been in the good old USSR in 1986 and 89 I can tell you the stories of the empty vegetable, bread, any stores with long lines are completely true.  We shipped in basic tools to do installs of equipment and magically on the last night all of them would disappear. In one case the factory was really hot (late September) and I was sweating like a pig. I asked through our W.German service tech to pass the only bottle of what I though was water.  It turned out to be very, very bad vodka. Every Russian assisting on that job wanted to get the hell out.  You know just like every American wanted to get out and go to the Sovs in the 80s.

Then went back in 91 and there were much happier people (this was Moscow) all waiting in a huge line for American fast food.  Like all things DUmmy, they know nothing and worse have made up the exact opposite of the real and actual conditions.

[Alpha Mare]

Like this?

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHeHiCtdH9M[/youtube]

[The Village Idiot]

Having been in the good old USSR in 1986 and 89 I can tell you the stories of the empty vegetable, bread, any stores with long lines are completely true.  We shipped in basic tools to do installs of equipment and magically on the last night all of them would disappear. In one case the factory was really hot (late September) and I was sweating like a pig. I asked through our W.German service tech to pass the only bottle of what I though was water.  It turned out to be very, very bad vodka. Every Russian assisting on that job wanted to get the hell out.  You know just like every American wanted to get out and go to the Sovs in the 80s.

Then went back in 91 and there were much happier people (this was Moscow) all waiting in a huge line for American fast food.  Like all things DUmmy, they know nothing and worse have made up the exact opposite of the real and actual conditions.

right. They know less than nothing.