The Conservative Cave
Interests => Around the House & In the Garage => Topic started by: vesta111 on September 04, 2009, 10:07:18 AM
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I been wanting to get one of these do-hickies for years and kept putting it off. Good old Pine Soil was good enough.
Now however with the flu season about to become a very big problem I have been pricing the hand held dry steam cleaners.
Before I drop $130.00 shipping and handling charge on something I have never owned before, do any of you own one,?
Some of the adds have questionable points, I can not believe that this method of cleaning will retard bacteria for 2 weeks as one stated.
Like antibiotics if I kill all the bacteria, then the bad stuff comes back first and may kill the good stuff we need. Will dry steam kill viruses.??
Will I be wasting my money on some gadjet that will free me from using all those chemicals to clean, darn but when I look under the kitchen sink all I have are chemicals, it would be great to get rid of them .
I put this question out on another forum and one person told me that they have a unite and no longer wash dishes, the scrape them clean then steam them. I suppose that works.
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I'd be shocked if you couldn't head into a Bed Bath and Beyond, or similar place, and find one for half that price.
They work great for cleaning, the cleaning power is amazing. As for sanitization... they will essentially, but it's not very practical. You're simply not going to hold the sprayer over the spot for the ten-fifteen(?) minutes or so it can take.
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I'd be shocked if you couldn't head into a Bed Bath and Beyond, or similar place, and find one for half that price.
They work great for cleaning, the cleaning power is amazing. As for sanitation... they will essentially, but it's not very practical. You're simply not going to hold the sprayer over the spot for the ten-fifteen(?) minutes or so it can take.
Well Grat, I in a moment of lust for a new toy bought one of them, Orec and it was so pricey it had better work.
It came in a box with pictures that showed what it can do.
Unpacked the thing and found bunches of other stuff, some I recognised, some were strange to me.
With all this stuff I turned to the instruction book-------there were 2 attachments not even mentioned in the how to use. The company needs to put out a CD on how to use everything.
I so carefully used a one liter bottle that had held water to measure the amount needed-----It was 30 minutes later that I saw a big clear bubble on the side to show what the water fill was. GRRRRRR.
I have a very large kitchen depending where you live 14x14 floor space. The plastic flooring whatever has nubs and it is 14 years old. Even using the top of the line cleaning method still left stuff in the nubs that after over a decade would not come out.
I was afraid to try this out alone and without Hubby to yell at me. But I gathered up courage and reved the darn thing up.
The first cleaning took a good 2 years off the floor, second another 2 years. It is going to take a few weeks but I see that instead of spending a fortune for flooring with some patience one can clean the old to new.
Tonight I will when Hubby comes home steam clean the mattress and bedding. For some reason this area is being hit very hard with BED BUGS.
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Well Grat, I in a moment of lust for a new toy bought one of them, Orec and it was so pricey it had better work.
It came in a box with pictures that showed what it can do.
{snip}
The first cleaning took a good 2 years off the floor, second another 2 years. It is going to take a few weeks but I see that instead of spending a fortune for flooring with some patience one can clean the old to new.
Tonight I will when Hubby comes home steam clean the mattress and bedding. For some reason this area is being hit very hard with BED BUGS.
:confused:
Bedding and bed bugs? There is some cause and effect mystery here?
Whoa Vesta, you really got bed bugs. I don't think I would be steam cleaning 'em. I think I would be going heavy duty with the folk from Monsanto (you know, the chemical people ) :-) How embarassing. What's next head lice?? :whatever: Seriously, I had heard there were bed bugs in the area but I would think treating it more like a flea infestation would be the way to go. Yikes, think I will google this one later when I have more time.
pb
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:confused:
Bedding and bed bugs? There is some cause and effect mystery here?
Whoa Vesta, you really got bed bugs. I don't think I would be steam cleaning 'em. I think I would be going heavy duty with the folk from Monsanto (you know, the chemical people ) :-) How embarassing. What's next head lice?? :whatever: Seriously, I had heard there were bed bugs in the area but I would think treating it more like a flea infestation would be the way to go. Yikes, think I will google this one later when I have more time.
pb
Bed bugs had been in the news quite a bit this summer, mainly being problems for places that have multiple tenants, dorms, hotels, and whatnot.
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Bed bugs had been in the news quite a bit this summer, mainly being problems for places that have multiple tenants, dorms, hotels, and whatnot.
If you travel much....I would think they would be easy to get from staying in hotels.
Ever seen any of those segments they do on TV where someone has gone into reputable hotels and checked for germs, bacteria, etc. Soooooooooo gross! :o
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If you travel much....I would think they would be easy to get from staying in hotels.
Ever seen any of those segments they do on TV where someone has gone into reputable hotels and checked for germs, bacteria, etc. Soooooooooo gross! :o
Most of those hotel rooms light up more than the crime scenes on CSI.
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If you travel much....I would think they would be easy to get from staying in hotels.
Ever seen any of those segments they do on TV where someone has gone into reputable hotels and checked for germs, bacteria, etc. Soooooooooo gross! :o
Yes I have, and that is gross. Back on President's Day, 2006 I travelled to Memphis from Dallas on I-40. Now, we knew there would be weather, so I suggested we go I-20 to Jackson and up, but NOOOOOOO....everyone said it would take too long. Yeah, they closed down I-40 because of ice and we were very fortunate to get a room in a Super 8 in Binkley, AR, which was a much better alternative than sleeping in our car. At any rate, because of said ice storm, they had no cleaning crew there, and they were quite up front with it. They handed us clean towels, they had run out of clean linens. It was GROSS. Needless to say, we did NOT turn down the sheets. I had a blanket in the car, and used that on top of the bed. Thankfully, I had the presence of mind to insist on making a stop at the liquor store before we stopped at the hotel.
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Yes I have, and that is gross. Back on President's Day, 2006 I travelled to Memphis from Dallas on I-40. Now, we knew there would be weather, so I suggested we go I-20 to Jackson and up, but NOOOOOOO....everyone said it would take too long. Yeah, they closed down I-40 because of ice and we were very fortunate to get a room in a Super 8 in Binkley, AR, which was a much better alternative than sleeping in our car. At any rate, because of said ice storm, they had no cleaning crew there, and they were quite up front with it. They handed us clean towels, they had run out of clean linens. It was GROSS. Needless to say, we did NOT turn down the sheets. I had a blanket in the car, and used that on top of the bed. Thankfully, I had the presence of mind to insist on making a stop at the liquor store before we stopped at the hotel.
NO_NO I don't have bed bugs just trying NOT to get them. Dust mites are another biggie I fear.
AH Iassa, I hope you did not sleep on the comforter, a program on TV with one of those sperm hunting lights found that because of prostitution that is the nasty place in the room.
Worse place I ever spent the night was in Nevada on my honeymoon. The double bed had a plastic sheet from the foot of the bed about 2 1/2 feet up the comforter. Hubby told me that was to keep the comforter clean because some men never bothered to remove their shoes.
I picked up this tip from a BBC program, bring a sleeping bag and wrap up in that. don't bring it in the house when you come home take it be dry cleaned. Never sit on a bed fully clothed, who knows what you can pick up be it roaches in a locker room at the gym or flees from the people brush up against you.
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Heck no! I put the blanket on top of the bed and laid on it, didn't use the pillow either. It was gross. But warm.
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(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31rshS05blL._AA280_.jpg)
I use this on the ceramic tile and hardwood -- disinfects and cleans without chemicals BUT I use chemicals with it.
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(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31rshS05blL._AA280_.jpg)
I use this on the ceramic tile and hardwood -- disinfects and cleans without chemicals BUT I use chemicals with it.
Is this the Shark one? Do you like it?
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Is this the Shark one? Do you like it?
It is, and I do like it a lot as it cleans my floors spotless with steamed hot water. I have been using lysol though lately because of the flu germs, but you really don't need it. I have someone who comes once a week to clean and while she does like it, she did comment the padding is soft so it really doesn't do scrubbing required for the stuff that is stuck on the floor (I have three boys under 7 so you can imagine). It does however loosen it considerably to the point that you can carry a cloth with you and immediately wipe it up as you go.
If you have kids who are crawling I highly recommend it -- super clean floors with zero chemicals. I like it because the mop is always sterile when you grab it to use (comes with two pads that you toss right into the washer), and the floors clean quickly and thoroughly.
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I like my Shark, but the terrycloth pads are a pain in the butt to keep clean. I ordered extra pads. I've found it's good for cleaning up dirt stains, dried blood, and oil.
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I've been looking at them and glad to know that someone likes them.
I have brick floors and they are a pain in the patoot to clean, with all the little nooks and crannies in the brick and mortar.
I've used my carpet cleaner (with the scrub attachment) but I worry that it wears down the brick, and it does put a lot of water on them. It goes through the soap solution really fast and I have to then do it with clean water. From the looks of the water, I know it's pulling a lot of brick particles up, too.
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I like my Shark, but the terrycloth pads are a pain in the butt to keep clean. I ordered extra pads. I've found it's good for cleaning up dirt stains, dried blood, and oil.
Dude, dried blood? Cleaning isn't your biggest problem then. :rofl:
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Dude, dried blood? Cleaning isn't your biggest problem then. :rofl:
Better than NON dried blood???
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You wouldn't believe the enormous mess warts make when you slice them off with a razor.
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You wouldn't believe the enormous mess warts make when you slice them off with a razor.
Thanks. I needed that. NOT.
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That steam cleaner picked it right up! :lmao:
I want one of those high-pressure steam jet cleaner. Those look like fun.
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holy crap dude. :-)
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When I see the hand held steam cleaners being used on counters, drapes, etc...I think of the risk of 2nd degree steam burns...
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holy crap dude. :-)
Just don't ask him about what body part the warts were attached to! :-)
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holy crap dude. :-)
Mantra for parents with young boys, " Don't bleed on the carpet go in the kitchen."
In cold climates when the furnace is first turned on the air becomes very dry, some people get nose bleeds until the humidifiers are in place.
Kitchen accidents with a small knife cutting veges, or cut shaving a beard in the bathroom.
Females of child baring age deal with the blood issue every 30 days, If there are 3 females in the home, mom and 2 teenage girls, then the odds are one of them will eventually have an accident.
Human blood is a fact of life for most of us, it can be dangerous to our health and very hard to remove from carpets, floors, clothing and mattress.
Even with no children and a male if you own a dog or cat you may have to eventually have to deal with a hurt pet.
These steam cleaners are especially good at cleaning up the accidents in life, I use peroxide with the steam just to make sure -----also have my Hep shots.
I wish these cleaners were made much smaller so I could take one when I stay a few days in a hotel. The bathrooms look immaculate, but are they ?
OK, this is something new, I know 20 years ago I would not have given it too much thought, today I wash off the tops of canned goods I buy, soak fresh vegetables before use, all clothing we buy that is not in-closed in a plastic bag I run the steamer over, the washer and drier gets a good blast of steam, all outside shoes and boots get a quick blast as does the floors and seats in my autos.
Will this actually keep me healthy.? Who knows but at least I know I have given it my best shot, Good old steam, the buggies cannot become immune to it as they do with some cleaners, and antibacterial soaps.
This all comes from having a family member having a tooth pulled and getting a dry socket, up shot was with in just 2 weeks they were diagnosed with Phemigus, a disease that was seldom seen in the last 1.500 years. From web sites I find this is emerging back into our world by leaps and bounds. Was it the dry socket that released the hidden and inactive disease or was it the fact that my family member had spent the summer in Florida rubbing shoulders with people from all over the world ?
I remember picking my baby's pacifier off the floor and putting it in my mouth to remove foreign bacteria. I remember eating raw eggs, raw hamburger, half cooked meats at BBQS and borrowing a friends comb, lipstick or eye makeup with no problem. I remember nursing and changing chucks of incontinent patients with NO gloves, getting blood tests by Techs wearing no gloves. Sure we washed our hands after the procedure but just one small opening in the skin from a fly should have made us very ill--- not.
We use to drink the water from cold springs with no problem. EMTS or the police never wore gloves, nor did the Doctor who examined me for my first pregnancy.
How did I get so paranoid I steam or wash everything that comes into my home????
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How did I get so paranoid I steam or wash everything that comes into my home????
You know, vesta, madam, there's a downside to this too.
One is supposed to acquire immunity to some things while living life.
This is a rare example, but anyway, polio was unheard-of during the middle ages and renaissance. It's been theorized that people acquired immunity to it through the lack of public sanitation.
I perhaps shouldn't tell you this, but males of any age have a habit of, when guzzling down the most perfect of all foods, milk, and no one is looking, straight from the one-gallon bottle. It avoids using a glass that must be washed.
When I was in college, and living in a party house with five other guys for a couple of years, this was a common occurrence, and obviously we had acquired some sort of immunity to each other's germs.
However, we did have manners born of good breeding; guests were offered milk from unopened (until served) milk bottles untouched by human lips.
That being said, myself having grown up around a hospital environment, I prefer things to be sparkling clean and with a slight whiff of hospital antiseptics in the air. When it comes to appliances and other fixtures (such as what one finds in bathrooms), I prefer those to be white or at least stainless-steel (sinks, for example). And for me, glass is preferable to metal, when it comes to cookingware.
One thing that drives me nuts is when women--and they are, invariably, women--put those carpet-like things on the lid of the commode. Besides making it a nuisance for one of the male gender to empty his bladder (one has to actually hold the lid and seat up), those rug-like covers harbor lots and lots and lots of germs and other stuff.
Rugs on bathroom floors, too--that's a no-no.
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You know, vesta, madam, there's a downside to this too.
One is supposed to acquire immunity to some things while living life.
This is a rare example, but anyway, polio was unheard-of during the middle ages and renaissance. It's been theorized that people acquired immunity to it through the lack of public sanitation.
I perhaps shouldn't tell you this, but males of any age have a habit of, when guzzling down the most perfect of all foods, milk, and no one is looking, straight from the one-gallon bottle. It avoids using a glass that must be washed.
When I was in college, and living in a party house with five other guys for a couple of years, this was a common occurrence, and obviously we had acquired some sort of immunity to each other's germs.
However, we did have manners born of good breeding; guests were offered milk from unopened (until served) milk bottles untouched by human lips.
That being said, myself having grown up around a hospital environment, I prefer things to be sparkling clean and with a slight whiff of hospital antiseptics in the air. When it comes to appliances and other fixtures (such as what one finds in bathrooms), I prefer those to be white or at least stainless-steel (sinks, for example). And for me, glass is preferable to metal, when it comes to cookingware.
One thing that drives me nuts is when women--and they are, invariably, women--put those carpet-like things on the lid of the commode. Besides making it a nuisance for one of the male gender to empty his bladder (one has to actually hold the lid and seat up), those rug-like covers harbor lots and lots and lots of germs and other stuff.
Rugs on bathroom floors, too--that's a no-no.
Just a wild thought Frank but why do today's men need to stand up to pee.?
Only reason I can see that woman from a by-gone era could not march into battle--unless they were Joan o'arc was because men could be kept moving on the march and had no reason to stop, just point and shoot from the saddle.
In today's world where except in the military that spent big bucks trying to find a way for females to pee standing up, why do men have to stand tall and make a mess of bathrooms?
Give me a break, my boys bathroom had to be cleaned every freaking day, floor, toilet, seat and sometimes knows the walls as they practiced their aim. Not to mention the replacement of the window screens in their room when they awakened ready to go but wanted to get it over with quick.
Girls bathroom, once a week, swab the floor, wipe down the toilet----no problem.
How much easier it would be if men just took the time to freaking sit down, no mess anywhere, floor clean and no worry about making a mess of the toilet seat cover.
There are times when a woman has to pee standing, most of us have figured out how to do so without gettin our shoe full of piss.
So why would any man not in the military or on African Surfari need to stand.?
You complain about woman that try to decorate a bathroom because some man may come in and make it nasty. Woman are not going to pee on the closed lid but men may hit the sides of the padding so it is now the womans fault.?
Thank the Lord I am not a feminist Frank, if I were I would attack wondering why if a woman decorates her bathroom men have the right to complain because they piss all over the decorations then blame the woman for placing them there.
Have you any idea what would do if woman decided to pee standing up in your home?
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Just a wild thought Frank but why do today's men need to stand up to pee.?
Only reason I can see that woman from a by-gone era could not march into battle--unless they were Joan o'arc was because men could be kept moving on the march and had no reason to stop, just point and shoot from the saddle.
In today's world where except in the military that spent big bucks trying to find a way for females to pee standing up, why do men have to stand tall and make a mess of bathrooms?
Give me a break, my boys bathroom had to be cleaned every freaking day, floor, toilet, seat and sometimes knows the walls as they practiced their aim. Not to mention the replacement of the window screens in their room when they awakened ready to go but wanted to get it over with quick.
Girls bathroom, once a week, swab the floor, wipe down the toilet----no problem.
How much easier it would be if men just took the time to freaking sit down, no mess anywhere, floor clean and no worry about making a mess of the toilet seat cover.
There are times when a woman has to pee standing, most of us have figured out how to do so without gettin our shoe full of piss.
So why would any man not in the military or on African Surfari need to stand.?
You complain about woman that try to decorate a bathroom because some man may come in and make it nasty. Woman are not going to pee on the closed lid but men may hit the sides of the padding so it is now the womans fault.?
Thank the Lord I am not a feminist Frank, if I were I would attack wondering why if a woman decorates her bathroom men have the right to complain because they piss all over the decorations then blame the woman for placing them there.
Have you any idea what would do if woman decided to pee standing up in your home?
Now Vesta, I have worked in the hotel and restaurant trade once or twice in my life, and I can tell you that beyond a shadow of a doubt women's rooms are among the most grotesque things in the world. As one former employer pointed out it looks like the majority of women crap with a B52 stance high above the target. I have often wondered when the excessive use of tissue will denude the forests. Why, in heaven's name are those wonderful paper doilies provided? They are hardly ever used or properly disposed of.
Oh yes, and men, if you are getting grief about leaving the lid up, simply offer to solve the problem by using the sink. And women wonder why the line for the men's room moves soooooooo much faster. :rotf:
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New linens - sheets, towels, blankets - I have to wash before they are used the first time.
All undies have to be washed, even if they came in a sealed package.
I never, ever use someone else's makeup...never have. I've worn contacts since I was 16, and was told when I got them, that using someone else's makeup was a real easy way to get eye infections. It was enough to convince me. I've never been a "hair-comber"...once my hair is dried and I leave the bathroom....I don't mess with it again...a wonderful advantage to having short hair.
Anything that goes in the kitchen - utensils, cookware, disposable storage containers....has to be washed before using.
I, too, clean the top of cans before I open them.
I don't eat raw hamburger anymore - :bawl:, but I still use raw eggs in desserts - but I only use ones I have just purchased.
I have bathmats in front of the shower, and both the sinks in our bath....but nothing is around the toilet. I think all those toilet trimmings are just one gigando germ colony. I don't even use sponges or dishrags in the kitchen....I use paper towels if I'm washing dishes. And I put the plastic scrubbie in the dishwasher about once a week.
I detest public restrooms....women are pigs!! MickeyD's and Pilot gas stations, keep theirs pretty clean, so those are the pit stops when travelling by car. In Europe, the public restrooms have attendents that clean the stall after each use, and wipe down the sink after each use. On the times I have been there, it cost me 1E each time....totally worth it!!
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I must agree...women are pigs. Every single public restroom and office restrooom I've used has been nasty with few exceptions.
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New linens - sheets, towels, blankets - I have to wash before they are used the first time.
I'm the opposite.
Because I'm rough on clothes, and because clothes don't make the man anyway, I buy all my clothes--with the exception of underwear and suits--at thrift stores.
Do I wash them before wearing them the first time?
Nah. Too much trouble.
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I disagree about woman being natural pigs. There has to be a better way to design woman's rest rooms for public places.
Most interesting and cleanest rest rooms are at the Casino in Conn. They have these never before seen toilets that have have clean toilet paper cover the seat so one can sit down with no fear. Once the toilet is flushed the paper disappears somewhere and clean paper comes out of nowhere for the next woman to use. No squat and hope to hit the spot, no worry of falling off balance when wearing heels or after a couple drinks.
It just is not easy for the older woman with arthritis to pull her undergarments away from their body, squat and not touch the walls or door to keep their balance. Don't forget some stalls have no hook to hang a hand bag on and somehow you must juggle that and never set it on the floor.
MEN have no idea of the contortions woman must go through to use a public bathroom. Men can just unzip, pee and re-zip and walk out, no toilet paper involved. In and out in 3 minutes or less. There is seldom a line waiting to use the men's room.
Woman tend to wash their hands more then men and the trash cans fill up fast with used paper towels, if not emptied these towels soon fall out on the floor and no way would I pick up anything on the floor left by strangers. When taking small kids to the Lady's room we put toilet paper on the seat so they can sit down. Kids tend to slide off the seats taking the paper stuck to their bums and at times that paper also falls to the floor.
Trying to redress a small child inside a small stall making sure they nor you touch the walls or door while holding your purse and or coat within a 3 foot space has to be practiced, allot.
If I were to have 200-300 people use my bathroom everyday and only cleaned it twice a day, I would face the same mess as a public toilet.
Woman are not slobs, we just have few choices, we are built different from men and have problems men just don't understand.
Lets see you guys drop your pants and squat holding your pants up with one hand so they don't hit the floor. Lets see you do this holding a camera bag in one hand the the other hand holding up your pants. How are you going to get to the toilet paper with both hands full.? How are you going to manage to get your pants up, shirt tucked in and belted with just one hand------Ask a woman, we can tell you how.
Arggggggg, We need more woman designing public toilets for woman, bigger stalls, more hooks, have them cleaned every couple hours, I bet I could run and win some government office just on the promiss to improve Lady's rooms in all public places.
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Dang. I would High five the above if I could.
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I disagree about woman being natural pigs. There has to be a better way to design woman's rest rooms for public places.
Most interesting and cleanest rest rooms are at the Casino in Conn. They have these never before seen toilets that have have clean toilet paper cover the seat so one can sit down with no fear. Once the toilet is flushed the paper disappears somewhere and clean paper comes out of nowhere for the next woman to use. No squat and hope to hit the spot, no worry of falling off balance when wearing heels or after a couple drinks.
It just is not easy for the older woman with arthritis to pull her undergarments away from their body, squat and not touch the walls or door to keep their balance. Don't forget some stalls have no hook to hang a hand bag on and somehow you must juggle that and never set it on the floor.
MEN have no idea of the contortions woman must go through to use a public bathroom. Men can just unzip, pee and re-zip and walk out, no toilet paper involved. In and out in 3 minutes or less. There is seldom a line waiting to use the men's room.
Woman tend to wash their hands more then men and the trash cans fill up fast with used paper towels, if not emptied these towels soon fall out on the floor and no way would I pick up anything on the floor left by strangers. When taking small kids to the Lady's room we put toilet paper on the seat so they can sit down. Kids tend to slide off the seats taking the paper stuck to their bums and at times that paper also falls to the floor.
Trying to redress a small child inside a small stall making sure they nor you touch the walls or door while holding your purse and or coat within a 3 foot space has to be practiced, allot.
If I were to have 200-300 people use my bathroom everyday and only cleaned it twice a day, I would face the same mess as a public toilet.
Woman are not slobs, we just have few choices, we are built different from men and have problems men just don't understand.
Lets see you guys drop your pants and squat holding your pants up with one hand so they don't hit the floor. Lets see you do this holding a camera bag in one hand the the other hand holding up your pants. How are you going to get to the toilet paper with both hands full.? How are you going to manage to get your pants up, shirt tucked in and belted with just one hand------Ask a woman, we can tell you how.
Arggggggg, We need more woman designing public toilets for woman, bigger stalls, more hooks, have them cleaned every couple hours, I bet I could run and win some government office just on the promiss to improve Lady's rooms in all public places.
:busted:
You state your belief that women are not pigs then go on to prove otherwise and blame the the designers.
Come on Vesta. I expect better of you than this. Now about the casino toilets. Hum, it works because you don't is the message I took away. :fuelfire:
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:busted:
You state your belief that women are not pigs then go on to prove otherwise and blame the the designers.
Come on Vesta. I expect better of you than this. Now about the casino toilets. Hum, it works because you don't is the message I took away. :fuelfire:
I was thinking the same thing. All the "contortions" that women go through is because the ones before them were pigs and left a mess. Granted the paper towels filling the waste can , can be a problem, but most places have hand dryers.
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I was thinking the same thing. All the "contortions" that women go through is because the ones before them were pigs and left a mess. Granted the paper towels filling the waste can , can be a problem, but most places have hand dryers.
Just a brief aside on the issue of potty parity. I was at a car show this summer which only had two public porta potties. ( There were over 300 cars on display and food available )
On my first visit ( early morning coffee dump ) they were not too bad, well shaded and clean. Two hours later when there was a ten minute wait most women left 'white faced'. ( However the record "house time" in my informal survey went to a little old man who spent upward of fifteen minutes ).
The organizers of the show need to take a serious look at this issue. By the second visit, well, lets just say there was good reason for the ladies to leave ashen faced. Embarrassing regardless of who was responsible.
BTW Vesta, how is your health doing?? Been buy the kool kids site lately?