primitives discuss women who hug without asking first

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11144418

Oh my.

Bonobo (18,152 posts)   Sat Oct 6, 2012, 08:24 PM

I know a woman who hugs without asking all the time.

In fact, even the first time I met her, she turned down a handshake, saying "I don't do handshakes, I do hugs".

She acts like bestowing a hug on people is a gift. She doesn't seem to care if it is wanted or not. Is she "taking" a hug because she enjoys it, or is she "bestowing a hug" because she thinks it is desirable to receive her hug.

Lots of women think seem to assume that their physical contact is some kind of prize to be doled out.

They often do not ask for permission. I was reminded of this when I read the post about the WW2 photo.

I suppose someone will tell me it does not matter if they force this kind of unwanted physical touching because there is no threat of physical force as is the case when a man does it. This may or may not be true, but I think the idea that women tend, more then me, to think they are offering a desirable gift is suggestive as the difference and one of the problems inherent in the male-female power dynamic.

Yep, yep, yep; that's one of franksolich's bete noires too.

Don't nobody touch franksolich until he knows who the Hell you are.

However, I do get my revenge.  Due to a flawed body-thermostat, hugging franksolich is like hugging an ice-cube, and it does shock people.  I suppose that's some small consolation.

caraher (2,889 posts)   Sun Oct 7, 2012, 10:00 AM

1. There are also men who hug

Certainly someone who insists on hugging the reluctant rather than accepting a handshake is making it all about their own personal preference at the expense of the comfort of someone else. There should be respect for the wishes of the other person. I've seen both men and women do this, though certainly more women than men.

But I don't lose sleep over this any more that I ever did over that nurse in the photo from the end of WWII. And having a few rogue serial huggers around isn't all bad - some people who could use that human contact but would never initiate it themselves probably do benefit from it.

I'm sure it does get old quickly, though, if you run across a compulsive hugger like that and are uncomfortable with that much physical contact.

4th law of robotics (5,671 posts)   Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:20 AM

2. Rape culture

that's why she thinks this is acceptable. Movies, television, etc all show that this is acceptable behavior. That a man's body isn't his own and that men really like to be assaulted in this way (if they struggle you just have to hold on harder, they really like it).

Why ask for permission? Men exist in a perpetual state of "yes".

Any sort of physical, spoken, or visual interaction should require explicit consent from both individuals plus a witness before it can proceed.

Everything else is assault or worse.

MadrasT (4,425 posts)   Sun Oct 7, 2012, 06:37 PM

3. I hate huggers who don't ask.

Male or female. It isn't right to hug without permission.

I agree with everything you wrote.

4th law of robotics (5,671 posts)   Mon Oct 8, 2012, 10:09 AM

4. Would you consider it sexual assault?

NYC_SKP (44,019 posts)   Sat Oct 13, 2012, 09:42 AM

6. No, but it is the definition of harassment.

I completed a mandatory periodic training just yesterday.

Unwanted and repeated touching or hugging is harassment.

Touch the naughty bits, even once, it might be assault.

4th law of robotics (5,671 posts)   Sat Oct 13, 2012, 01:15 PM

7. I have a feeling man would have a hard time pressing charges against a female hugger.

Major Nikon (6,286 posts)   Thu Oct 11, 2012, 09:24 AM

5. I work with a woman who calls me honey and darling

She knows fully well that I'm a manager that investigates sexual harassment complaints. There is no sexual intent, so I'm not offended by it. I've actually investigated a few workplace huggers with two very different results. Some do it with a clear sexual intent which is clearly wrong and we will take necessary corrective action in those instances. Others do it for cultural reasons which doesn't result in discipline.

Some people just don't like to be touched by people they are not intimate with and there's nothing wrong with that, but most people accept it when there is no sexual intent, even if they don't initiate it themselves. I can't agree that all unsolicited hugs are wrong unless someone is clear about their objection to it and the person does it anyway, but I do understand why some people think otherwise.

[Ballygrl]

My Mom's a hugger, I'm not unless I know you well enough.

[franksolich]

My Mom's a hugger, I'm not unless I know you well enough.

That's the way to be.

<<is cold to huggers who I don't know.

[Vagabond]

LOL, in my family, we hug.  You find that out pretty quick if you find yourself in a relationship with one of us. 

[vesta111]

That's the way to be.

<<is cold to huggers who I don't know.

I was upset when a stranger say a waitress called me Honey or Hun.   Got a bit techie when called Dear by strangers.  

Then when I went into Nursing I found myself doing the same toward the patients.   Progression, I soon found myself hugging and perhaps holding the hand of a patient, for me this was very odd.  

People I have found crave the human touch,   the hand shake, the pat on the back, or a pat on the head.   A stranger lending their arm to help someone go down stairs or cross a street.  

Comes down to human contact, we know how important this is to baby's and children, but we over look the Adult need for this.

Hugging is a communication from one human to another that they are valued and excepted, part of the Wolfe pack one can say.

I never held hands in public with anyone but my kids until when I met my Hubby.  He insisted on it and I felt foolish, two middle aged people holding hands in any public place. He upped it a notch at work, as he started work half an hour before me he would come over give me a kiss and tell me to be careful.   After 20 years the other workers got use to this ritual he had made. If I had the day off my coworkers both men and woman would blow kisses at him, it was a hoot for any new worker to watch.    WTF ?????

[franksolich]

That's all fine, vesta, dear, but one's going to suffer frostbite if one dares touch franksolich too intimately when I don't know who the Hell they are; their full name, their address, their occupation, their driving record, their credit report, their family tree, and their motives.

<<has been hugged too many times by people whose motives were not pure.

[BEG]

My Mom's a hugger, I'm not unless I know you well enough.

I'm not a hugger unless its my husband or my kids.  Sometimes I hug my mom. My mother-in-law is a huge hugger and its a long hug. I was uncomfortable with it at first (because my mom never was a hugger) but over the years I started to realize that that was the way she showed she liked you. I still don't like how long she hugs but I'm not put off by it anymore.

[Ballygrl]

LOL, in my family, we hug.  You find that out pretty quick if you find yourself in a relationship with one of us.

Yep, my family too. My Husband isn't a big hugger, especially with men, but my family is very huggy with each other, and even the men hug each other, my Husband was in shock the 1st time my male cousin hugged him LOL.

[Ballygrl]

I'm not a hugger unless its my husband or my kids.  Sometimes I hug my mom. My mother-in-law is a huge hugger and its a long hug. I was uncomfortable with it at first (because my mom never was a hugger) but over the years I started to realize that that was the way she showed she liked you. I still don't like how long she hugs but I'm not put off by it anymore.

I think because I was hugged all the time I never felt the need to look for it.

[seahorse513]

We are a very affectionate in our family. With people I don't know very well, I hold back.......

[miskie]

Not big into stranger-touching, at all. Not hugs, handshakes, pats on the back.. Nothing. I don't even like sitting next to strangers at movies or other arena events. Its an even bigger problem if I can smell the stranger - not just bad smells either - people who heavily use perfumed soaps, deodorant, and detergents annoy me as much as reeking of BO and hamburger grease.

Its probably because I view most of humanity with distrust and contempt. However, once I know you, that will change. Either for better or worse- but it will change.

[franksolich]

Not big into stranger-touching, at all. Not hugs, handshakes, pats on the back.

With strangers, I can handle a quick hand-shake or a split-second buss on the cheek by a woman, but any more than that, no.

I think the confusion starts in the minds of strangers who haven't met me before when they see other people actually grabbing, holding onto, groping, me.  But it doesn't occur to them that these are people I know, not strangers, and they're doing it to ensure I know what's going on.

[Ballygrl]

If I ever got to meet you guys at a meetup I'd probably hug all of you, heck I'd even hug some DU people because I feel like I know you LOL.

[miskie]

If I ever got to meet you guys at a meetup I'd probably hug all of you, heck I'd even hug some DU people because I feel like I know you LOL.

Well,  after reading you for years, I believe I know you - so, that would be fine with me.

Many people may hide behind facades on anonymous message boards such as these, but after so long, one starts to understand a person through the words they choose, the stories they tell, and the secrets they share. Personally, I am exactly the person I write as - even if you found my posts on other boards, dedicated to other topics, you would probably be able to pick what I have written out of a bunch of messages in a thread. So, whatever you or anyone else thinks of me, I probably am.

[BEG]

If I ever got to meet you guys at a meetup I'd probably hug all of you, heck I'd even hug some DU people because I feel like I know you LOL.

Oh I know I would hug you, it wouldn't be an oddly long hug though. 

[Ballygrl]

Oh I know I would hug you, it wouldn't be an oddly long hug though. 

I might touch your hair though, just to see if it's as silky as it looks in the pics LOL.

[Ballygrl]

Well,  after reading you for years, I believe I know you - so, that would be fine with me.

Many people may hide behind facades on anonymous message boards such as these, but after so long, one starts to understand a person through the words they choose, the stories they tell, and the secrets they share. Personally, I am exactly the person I write as - even if you found my posts on other boards, dedicated to other topics, you would probably be able to pick what I have written out of a bunch of messages in a thread. So, whatever you or anyone else thinks of me, I probably am.

I'm extremely excitable and like most Italians I talk with my hands.

[ColonelCarrots]

Attractive women can hug me.

[BEG]

I might touch your hair though, just to see if it's as silky as it looks in the pics LOL.

You can touch me anywhere you want.   

[Ballygrl]

You can touch me anywhere you want. 

[franksolich]

Wow.

That went right by me; thanks to whichever other moderator or administrator caught it.

We apparently had a quickie visit by a primitive from, of all places, Adel, Georgia, or nearabouts; down in southern Georgia near the border with Florida.  I have no idea who that would've been.

But thanks to whoever caught it.

[miskie]

I'm extremely excitable and like most Italians I talk with my hands.

I pace. A lot. Its as if I need to be moving to be talking. It drives the missus insane. Though, I will stay put if handed a Rubik's Cube that I can repeatedly solve then scramble.   

[RobJohnson]

My Mom's a hugger, I'm not unless I know you well enough

I'm not a hugger. My mom is, my sister is....some female friends are, the "just friends"

I did hug my father once as an adult. It ended up being one of the last times I seen him alive. I will never forget that hug. He died 18 months later as my parents traveled to see the nation in an RV.

When in LTRs I hug of course, but not just everyday friends.... I have became more used to hugs. I went to a church once, they were hugging everyone.

I don't remember my mom's mother being a hugger, or her dad...maybe that is why she is....not sure. Maybe it skips a generation. I just don't think I always need to say I love you or hug someone to show that I care about them...if all their bills are paid, meals are handed to them in bed when they are sick, isn't that better then simply saying "I love you?"

I dated a couple ladies that were really clingly. It was so bad they would freak out if I did not hold thier hands when I was folding my clothes. 

[RobJohnson]

I'm not a hugger unless its my husband or my kids.  Sometimes I hug my mom. My mother-in-law is a huge hugger and its a long hug. I was uncomfortable with it at first (because my mom never was a hugger) but over the years I started to realize that that was the way she showed she liked you. I still don't like how long she hugs but I'm not put off by it anymore.

If I know someone is a long hugger, I try to face the television. 

[Ballygrl]

If I know someone is a long hugger, I try to face the television. 

my Husband does that if the hug goes on too long.