If we had a Draft we would not have Bush's War.

[Toastedturningtidelegs]

 

ThomWV  (1000+ posts)      Fri Apr-25-08 07:47 AM
Original message
If we had a Draft we would not have Bush's War.
 You know as well as I do why this war continues, its because the people who fight it are the people who, at least initially, think that fighting wars is somehow 'romantic' or otherwise somehow a desirable thing to do. Draftees rarely think that fighting wars is a romantic or otherwise desirable thing to do - neither do the neighbors, friends, and family of draftees.

The reason the war against Viet Nam ended and the reason we got out military out of there completely is that when people were forced to go to war they ended that war.

Getting rid of the draft was the war mongers wet dream.


 

Yes because that worked so well in Viet-Nam http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3205604

[Lord Undies]

leftofcool  (1000+ posts)        Fri Apr-25-08 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
4. If we had a draft..........
college students would actually get off their asses and protest something besides the empty keg at the latest frat party

And if you had a tail you couldn't wear pants.

Yes, not having a military draft has been the cat turd in the teapot for our domestic anti-Americans.  They look very stupid trying to protest the intelligent choices others have made.  There's no there there -- and they know it.   

[Crazy Horse]

Oh hell......................

bowens43 (1000+ posts)      Fri Apr-25-08 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. This is a bullshit argument.
 It has absolutely no validity. I hate to break it to you but the war in Vietnam went on with US involvement for over tne years and we had a draft.

Your argument is an argument for slavery, nothing more.

That's gonna leave a mark

ThomWV  (1000+ posts)      Fri Apr-25-08 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I lived throught those time - my experience tells me that you are dead wrong
 I was both in and out of the Army during those 9 years, in fact I served in Viet Nam (as an enlistee) for three of those years. But I was also back in the world and participated in the protests of both the 60's and 70's (before and after I served) and from first hand experience and knowledge of the times I can tell you that you are absolutly wrong. When people participate in events they are concerned about them. That may be too simple for you to grasp, but its true.

So the Tom Thumb primitive served as an enlistee and protested before and after being in Vietnam..............yet wants people to be forced to serve when he wasn't and choose to....

leftofcool  (1000+ posts)      Fri Apr-25-08 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Correct!
 As a female, I did not have to serve in Vietnam but my husband did and we both protested before and after he served. You are right in that young people do not have to sacrifice anything for Bush's war so the majority of them do not get involved. You can afford to be apathetic if you don't have to give up anything. A draft would be good if it is fair.....no deferments for rich white ivy league students and draft the young Republicans first.

Why how socialist of ya IDJIT........................females served in Viet Nam

Donnachaidh  (1000+ posts)      Fri Apr-25-08 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. have we really had a FAIR draft?
 I don't think so --

Even in the Civil War, anyone who could cough up 300 bucks could get a deferment (or whatever it was called at the time). The recruits were waiting on the docks for the Irish immigrants, so they could offer them a *fast track to citizenship*. The reality was that most of those young men didn't survive to claim that citizenship.

Look at who is running this war -- *5* Deferment Cheney probably thinks in that fascist head of his that doing this somehow makes up for his *having better things to do* during the Vietnam War.

I'm beginning to believe that BDS is a side effect of CDS

 

liberal N proud  (1000+ posts)       Fri Apr-25-08 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
8. How long did Vietnam carry on with a draft in place?
 All a draft does is force people to give up their lives for something the don't believe in.
With a volunteer military at least those who join know that they may be called to fight and have given up the right willingly to fight what ever war is waged.

You have no idea how a service member feels

ThomWV  (1000+ posts)      Fri Apr-25-08 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. If there had been no draft we would still be there, and with no draft we will be in Iraq for 100 yrs
 McCain is right.

You're a ****ing IDJIT

MinM (223 posts)      Fri Apr-25-08 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
12. Absolutely. Those YAFers pushing for war...
 would be singing a different tune with the prospect of having to put their own precious butts on the line.

Not to mention the potential stigma of avoiding service down the road. Although they could still be tagged with the 'Chickenhawk' label.

midnight  (1000+ posts)      Fri Apr-25-08 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
14. If we had a congress that followed the law we wouldn't have bush.
 He would be impeached

.

How does Impeachment get rid of Bush...........................being Impeached sure didn't get rid of Race card Bill Clintoon

NNN0LHI  (1000+ posts)      Fri Apr-25-08 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Problem is their kids won't have to go over there
 Edited on Fri Apr-25-08 08:45 AM by NNN0LHI
No more than my kids ever would.

If I was looking at one of my kids or grandchildren being drafted I would spend the money to build up a medical case so they would not get drafted and maybe killed while guarding oil pipelines for EXXON. Take that to the bank.

And I am not wealthy. Wealthy Republicans would do the same. So who is left to draft? Disadvantaged kids. Thats all.

Avoiding a draft is not rocket science. A draft just gives some parents an easy way out to let someone else be responsible for raising one of their kids.

Don

Do your brain cells ever work??

Lastlaughin08  (1000+ posts)      Fri Apr-25-08 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. I agree to a large extent.
 But the worry of having to somehow get your kid off the hook would scare the crap out of many parents - enough to have a groundswell of protests over the whole damn mess we're in.

Right now as long as there are volunteers doing the job, the rest of the country goes on about their business fat, dumb, and happy.

That's kinda the idea dipshit

KharmaTrain  (1000+ posts)       Fri Apr-25-08 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
16. If Vietnam Were That Simple
 First of all...this war for profit would have been waged, draft or no draft, as it meant big contracting money. The game plan was to send in our military to take the place over and have the contractors run the place. When things got out of hand, then our military goes in with the helicopter gunships and heavy armour and make it "safe" for the contractors to do whatever they do. What's gone wrong is the Iraqis haven't played along with the con. They were supposed to take the money and shut up..."no one expected" an uprising as this regime honestly felt it could buy itself "peace" and the money would smooth over any opposition. This regime still believes it.

The first draft protests against the Vietnam war were in '65...almost immediately after our first troops went in. The draft kept going strong for the next 6 years. It didn't officially end until after our troops came home in '73 and many of us who were "of age" at the time (I got my draft card in 1974) were very concerned that if things went sour in Vietnam, we'd be going back.

The reason we got out of Vietnam was that our military and politicians realized the war had been lost...some 50,000 plus dead Americans afterthefact. Protests to the draft helped make the war unpopular, but it sure didn't end the war any sooner

BULLSHIT.................the war was won in Viet Nam, yet lost in Washington DC by traitorous coward ****wads like you and your  poo flinging primitive idjit assholes fart sucking bastards 

[TheSarge]

The reason the war against Viet Nam ended and the reason we got out military out of there completely is that when people were forced to go to war they ended that war.

Revisionist History!!!....Get yer Revisionist History right here!!!

[delilahmused]

Why protest, ENLIST, then come back and protest? Why the hell would anyone enlist knowing full well he'd be sent to fight a war he obviously didn't believe in? He must have been one of those poor, disadvantaged, stupid young men who had no other opportunities. Of course it could also be he didn't serve at all, served and didn't really go to Vietnam, or was drafted.

Cindie

[delilahmused]

P.S., I hope these people choke on their bong water.

Cindie

[Chris_]

Thank God these people weren't around during WW2.

You know......I read these threads almost daily, and I am convinced that there is a totally alien mindset at work with these people.  I guess that there have always been "pacifists" for one reason or another, but I'm completely convinced that these folks would be cheering and throwing rose pedals in the path of an invading army marching down the streets in this country.......

I would be remiss if I did not take the opportunity to convey.....to all of the members of this board that are currently serving, or have served, my sincere thanks, and offer my heartfelt support for you.  There is no higher calling for an American, and you folks embody the true spirit that makes this country the wonderful land of opportunity that it is.  You will always be in our prayers.

I am coming to the conclusion that these DUmmies clearly have become blinded by their ideology to the extent that they are unable to appreciate any contribution to our society that does not support their political worldview.  In the grand scheme of things, to a sane American, politics is an interesting diversion, but it certainly does not become the driving force in our daily lives.  Since I was born during the last months on Franklin Roosevelt's administration, I have seen presidents come and go........some good, some bad, and some mediocre.  I have never really felt that the election of one candidate over another would dramatically effect my life and wellbeing one way or another, because in this country one can truly be the master of ones own fate.

I would'nt know, but it must be truly painful for a person's life to be so devoid of meaning that the success or failure of a political candidate determines whether or not they lead a happy, fulfilled existance.  Further to become so obsessed that in order to feel fulfilled they must denegrate the fellow citizens that through their dedication keep them safe, is truly despicable.

doc

[jukin]

I bet there would be quite a few DUmbasses joining the military if there were a Cheetos signing bonus.

[Chris_]

There are many reasons to be against a draft. But there are many people my age and younger who could use a little military discipline. It might save them from becoming DUmmies.

[PatriotGame]

A draft would be good if it is fair.....no deferments for rich white ivy league students and draft the young Republicans first.

[Airwolf]

You have to wonder why people with not one tiny fraction of how the military works feel the need to lie,bash and denigrate the very people that serve to keep them free with the profound ignorace they display every minute at the DUmp.

They can't decide if they want a draft or not. If we are baby killers or not. War Criminals or Not. All I can say is we know who and what we are but its a damn shame we have to protect their rights to be idiots,fools and traitors.

[BlueStateSaint]

P.S., I hope these people choke on their bong water.

Cindie

H5!

[MPCOA]

More volunteers in Vietnam than in WWII, how does that fit in liberal theory.

[Lord Undies]

More volunteers in Vietnam than in WWII, how does that fit in liberal theory.

It doesn't, but the old rules were you did not look at the facts when judging liberalism.  Liberals still think the old rule rules!

You know liberals.  To them, it is noble and natural to risk and lose your life to sex, drugs, or any other detrimental "personal choice".  Where they draw the line, what cannot be tolerated, is if someone makes a personal choice to volunteer to put their life on the line in order to free oppressed people and rid the world of brutal dictators.

There is true freedom of choice and then there is the liberals' view.     

[Carl]

Thank God these people weren't around during WW2.

You know......I read these threads almost daily, and I am convinced that there is a totally alien mindset at work with these people.  I guess that there have always been "pacifists" for one reason or another, but I'm completely convinced that these folks would be cheering and throwing rose pedals in the path of an invading army marching down the streets in this country.......

I would be remiss if I did not take the opportunity to convey.....to all of the members of this board that are currently serving, or have served, my sincere thanks, and offer my heartfelt support for you.  There is no higher calling for an American, and you folks embody the true spirit that makes this country the wonderful land of opportunity that it is.  You will always be in our prayers.

I am coming to the conclusion that these DUmmies clearly have become blinded by their ideology to the extent that they are unable to appreciate any contribution to our society that does not support their political worldview.  In the grand scheme of things, to a sane American, politics is an interesting diversion, but it certainly does not become the driving force in our daily lives.  Since I was born during the last months on Franklin Roosevelt's administration, I have seen presidents come and go........some good, some bad, and some mediocre.  I have never really felt that the election of one candidate over another would dramatically effect my life and wellbeing one way or another, because in this country one can truly be the master of ones own fate.

I would'nt know, but it must be truly painful for a person's life to be so devoid of meaning that the success or failure of a political candidate determines whether or not they lead a happy, fulfilled existance.  Further to become so obsessed that in order to feel fulfilled they must denegrate the fellow citizens that through their dedication keep them safe, is truly despicable.

doc

I think what it all boils down to is that DUmmies are the lowest quality of human on the planet.
They spend their entire days and eventually lifetimes wallowing around in the darkest part of existence...greed,envy,and anger about what they want yet don`t have.
They believe in their infantile minds that the only solution to their misery is confiscation of everything they want from someone else and then delivered to them.

Socialism in essence and that is their great desire for themselves being able to escape into a fantasy world of no responsibility and hedonism.
The reality is otherwise and has been proven to result in totalitarianism and poverty.
Why they think somehow they will magically escape that is all part of an irrational mind and can not be understood.

We stood up to that totalitarianism and defeated it therefor also defeating their dreams of utopia and for that they hate this country all the while soaking up the benefits of living here.
It is why they are against the WOT,not so much for idealogical beliefs but because the islamofacists are a comrade in arms to them looking to take down capitalism.
True to form they somehow think they would be exempt from the results.

Infantile idiots.

[Bondai]

Thank God these people weren't around during WW2.

You know......I read these threads almost daily, and I am convinced that there is a totally alien mindset at work with these people.  I guess that there have always been "pacifists" for one reason or another, but I'm completely convinced that these folks would be cheering and throwing rose pedals in the path of an invading army marching down the streets in this country.......

I would be remiss if I did not take the opportunity to convey.....to all of the members of this board that are currently serving, or have served, my sincere thanks, and offer my heartfelt support for you.  There is no higher calling for an American, and you folks embody the true spirit that makes this country the wonderful land of opportunity that it is.  You will always be in our prayers.

I am coming to the conclusion that these DUmmies clearly have become blinded by their ideology to the extent that they are unable to appreciate any contribution to our society that does not support their political worldview.  In the grand scheme of things, to a sane American, politics is an interesting diversion, but it certainly does not become the driving force in our daily lives.  Since I was born during the last months on Franklin Roosevelt's administration, I have seen presidents come and go........some good, some bad, and some mediocre.  I have never really felt that the election of one candidate over another would dramatically effect my life and wellbeing one way or another, because in this country one can truly be the master of ones own fate.

I would'nt know, but it must be truly painful for a person's life to be so devoid of meaning that the success or failure of a political candidate determines whether or not they lead a happy, fulfilled existance.  Further to become so obsessed that in order to feel fulfilled they must denegrate the fellow citizens that through their dedication keep them safe, is truly despicable.

doc

Well said....

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

TRANSLATION: those living off the largesse of liberty--and damning it daily--won't get off the large asses unless threatened with personal inconvenience.

Why should any military that pays even a modicum of service to the notion of victory burden itself with such cretins?