DUmp explains what a combat veteran is.

[dutch508]

elleng (52,634 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026137376

Letter: Joni Ernst is not a combat veteran.

Joni Ernst claims to be a “Combat Veteran." That claim implies that her mission was to actively engage the enemy in combat. However, Mrs. Ernst is not a member of any “combat arms” unit. Infantry, artillery and armor are combat arms units. Mrs. Ernst was the Commanding Officer of Transportation Company. This company was responsible for the delivery of water, fuel and other supplies to units in secure areas. Joni Ernst did not lead her troops into combat, as one of her ads claims. Mrs. Ernst’s troops were not combat personnel, and their mission was not combat. Essentially, Mrs. Ernst was in charge of a group of truck drivers. I am sure that the mission of supply delivery had many potential hazards, but driving trucks from one secure area to another secure area is not combat, even if personnel were armed with M16s.

As an Army veteran of the Vietnam War, I was awarded the CIB, Combat Infantryman Badge, to signify my participation in combat. The photos of Mrs. Ernst in uniform shows that this award is absent. Any claims that she is a “Combat Veteran” seem to be a greatly overstated misrepresentation and perhaps a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

http://www.iowastatedaily.com/dct/article_75aea20c-54b1-11e4-b812-cf4aa783e9fb.html#.VMUoLcQSvEw.facebook

Recursion (37,417 posts)
9. In the Marines, members of Combat Service Support units can receive the Combat Action Ribbon
At which point they are "combat veterans". Is that not true in the Army?

 

Ernst is a lieutenant colonel in the logistics branch and currently commands the 185th Combat Sustainment Support Battalion at Camp Dodge, the largest battalion in the Iowa Army National Guard. As of 2014, Ernst had served 21 years between the Army Reserve and the National Guard. She spent 14 months in Kuwait in 2003-2004 as a company commander during Operation Iraqi Freedom

So she served in the invasion of Iraq in 2003 as a company commander of a transportation unit. I don't know.... sound like she may be a Iraqi War vet. I understand the haggling about 'combat vet', I got a CIB myself. However a hell of alot of Combat Service types saw active combat- defined by the military as "Oh ****! They are shooting at US!"

So much so they created an additional award for it- The Combat Action Badge. I don't know if Ernst was awarded one or not.

pinboy3niner (40,265 posts)
15. The Army has a relatively-new 'Combat Action Badge' created in 2005

It recognizes combat support troops who are directly exposed to combat who do not qualify for the Combat Infantryman Badge.

Men and women in the Reserve Transportation Company at the local Armory have been awarded this badge for their tour in Afghanistan, where they suffered 1 KIA and several WIA.

yup.

Recursion (37,417 posts)
21. Huh. Well, I think the Marines' way is better, but the rules are the rules. That's a pretty shocking screw-up on Ernst's part.

Not seeing the shocking screw up.

Recursion (37,417 posts)
22. Sorry, "Combat Service Support" is a Marine Corps-only designation We're also the only branch that puts the crossed rifles on every person's uniform and sends everyone (male or female) to infantry training regardless of their job.  I was just surprised that the Army doesn't offer a combat badge for non-infantry personnel (pinboy39er upthread says they have recently added one).

No it isn't. Combat Service Support units have been around since before WWII.

bluestateguy (41,162 posts)
26. I think the important question is, was she ever in a combat situation?

Was she ever thrown into a situation where her unit was attacked or her unit was otherwise thrust into a situation that could be described as combat.

I know that so-called non-combat units get attacked all the time, so I'm trying to keep an open mind here.

That's why there needs to be an investigation. 

Yeah... all you got to do is get her DD214 and look at the unit's war journal. Pretty straight forward.

elleng (52,634 posts)
32. The Letter says:

'As an Army veteran of the Vietnam War, I was awarded the CIB, Combat Infantryman Badge, to signify my participation in combat. The photos of Mrs. Ernst in uniform shows that this award is absent. Any claims that she is a “Combat Veteran” seem to be a greatly overstated misrepresentation and perhaps a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.'

I'm ok with it.

So, by this joe's statement any tankers or field arty pukes who call themselves combat vets are lying. Sorry, DAT.

AtheistCrusader (24,583 posts)
40. That doesn't make the letter accurate. As many posters have pointed out in this thread, things have changed, across services, and across theaters, since Vietnam.  There are roles and functions across services during Vietnam, that may not have qualified under the same rules as a WWII Vet.

 

 

NBachers (5,054 posts)
38. A look at comments in the Iowa State Daily state that she may qualify due to updated combat rules.

It's worth reading, just for the sake of accuracy and discussion.

I'm no friend of Joni Ernst, but she may be telling the truth.

http://www.iowastatedaily.com/dct/article_75aea20c-54b1-11e4-b812-cf4aa783e9fb.html?mode=comments

Oops.

 

[DumbAss Tanker]

It's obvious that none of the military jeenyusses over there know the difference between or composition of what Army doctrine differentiates as combat arms, combat support arms, and service support arms.  Virtually everything they said on the topic is wrong.

[Ralph Wiggum]

F*ck you DUmmies.  Seriously.

[Big Dog]

elleng

Joni Ernst claims to be a “Combat Veteran." That claim implies that her mission was to actively engage the enemy in combat.

It was a statement of fact which implied nothing, you mouth-breathing half wit. That you  inferred what you did, speaks only to your insurmountable stupidity and hyperpartisan hatred.

Go **** yourself, and give the pinheadnumbers primitive a reacharound while you're at it.

[67 Rover]

elleng (52,634 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026137376

Letter: Joni Ernst is not a combat veteran.

Joni Ernst claims to be a “Combat Veteran." That claim implies that her mission was to actively engage the enemy in combat. However, Mrs. Ernst is not a member of any “combat arms” unit. Infantry, artillery and armor are combat arms units. Mrs. Ernst was the Commanding Officer of Transportation Company. This company was responsible for the delivery of water, fuel and other supplies to units in secure areas. Joni Ernst did not lead her troops into combat, as one of her ads claims. Mrs. Ernst’s troops were not combat personnel, and their mission was not combat. Essentially, Mrs. Ernst was in charge of a group of truck drivers. I am sure that the mission of supply delivery had many potential hazards, but driving trucks from one secure area to another secure area is not combat, even if personnel were armed with M16s.

As an Army veteran of the Vietnam War, I was awarded the CIB, Combat Infantryman Badge, to signify my participation in combat. The photos of Mrs. Ernst in uniform shows that this award is absent. Any claims that she is a “Combat Veteran” seem to be a greatly overstated misrepresentation and perhaps a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

http://www.iowastatedaily.com/dct/article_75aea20c-54b1-11e4-b812-cf4aa783e9fb.html#.VMUoLcQSvEw.facebook

Wow, did they end up pulling them out of storage also like they did with the M14's?

[Rebel]

elleng (52,634 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026137376

Letter: Joni Ernst is not a combat veteran.

Joni Ernst claims to be a “Combat Veteran." That claim implies that her mission was to actively engage the enemy in combat. However, Mrs. Ernst is not a member of any “combat arms” unit. Infantry, artillery and armor are combat arms units. Mrs. Ernst was the Commanding Officer of Transportation Company. This company was responsible for the delivery of water, fuel and other supplies to units in secure areas. Joni Ernst did not lead her troops into combat, as one of her ads claims. Mrs. Ernst’s troops were not combat personnel, and their mission was not combat. Essentially, Mrs. Ernst was in charge of a group of truck drivers. I am sure that the mission of supply delivery had many potential hazards, but driving trucks from one secure area to another secure area is not combat, even if personnel were armed with M16s.

Say what, bitch?

[Rebel]

'As an Army veteran of the Vietnam War, I was awarded the CIB, Combat Infantryman Badge, to signify my participation in combat.

If she said this, this isn't a true. It's only available to 11 CMF and 18 CMF, IIRC. Maybe Cav Scouts, 19 CMF, IIRF, but don't hold me to that one. That's why they created the CAB.

[GOBUCKS]

Well, the Hildebeast is a combat veteran.

When she and Webb Hubbell's kid got off that plane in Bosnia they had to run through a hail of bullets.

[dutch508]

If she said this, this isn't a true. It's only available to 11 CMF and 18 CMF, IIRC. Maybe Cav Scouts, 19 CMF, IIRF, but don't hold me to that one. That's why they created the CAB.

No. Only 11 series or those doing a specific 11 series job. Special Forces 18 series for example.

[DumbAss Tanker]

If she said this, this isn't a true. It's only available to 11 CMF and 18 CMF, IIRC. Maybe Cav Scouts, 19 CMF, IIRF, but don't hold me to that one. That's why they created the CAB.

Pretty sure there wasn't a CMF 18 SF back then, everyone in SF was detailed there from other branches.  The crossed arrows came in during the 80s, as did the Aviation branch.

[Carl]

Yet they still think horsefaces photo op in Vietnam made him a war hero. 

[JohnnyReb]

Combat vet: Shot at and missed...shit at and hit.

[dutch508]

Pretty sure there wasn't a CMF 18 SF back then, everyone in SF was detailed there from other branches.  The crossed arrows came in during the 80s, as did the Aviation branch.

1963 was the official start date for SF. Most of those were 11s but not all that's why the designation for them. Of could SF medics got a combat medic badge.

[DumbAss Tanker]

That is when it came into existence as an organization, not as as MOS.

[dane]

It was a statement of fact which implied nothing, you mouth-breathing half wit. That you  inferred what you did, speaks only to your insurmountable stupidity and hyperpartisan hatred.

Go **** yourself, and give the pinheadnumbers primitive a reacharound while you're at it.

Short, and to the point.  H5

[franksolich]

Oh.  The husband-hating elleng primitive, even though he's been dead a long time now.

My response to her, both of us being life-long professional civilians, is that as far as I'm concerned, if the senator from Iowa was shot at, no matter where or what she was doing while serving, she's a combat veteran.

An experience neither the elleng primitive or franksolich have ever had.

[dutch508]

That is when it came into existence as an organization, not as as MOS.

Yes, but not all at at that time were 11 series so a special clause was written into the qualification for the CIB covering those guys doing an infantry job but not branched infantry. This actually came out during ww 2. (Not the sf part)

[DumbAss Tanker]

True, no argument with that.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Yet they still think horsefaces photo op in Vietnam made him a war hero. 

And Bergdahl...

...but everyone in his unit is a vet-hating traitor.

[delilahmused]

What about that Jessica what's-her-face? Didn't she do basically the same thing? I'd think these delivery units would be targeted specifically because they bring necessary supplies to the men fighting. How do those freaking idiots know her unit didn't come under fire? Anyone in Iraq & Afghanistan were/are in danger. Heck, there've been grenades & suicide bombers in places that were supposed to be safe.

Cindie

[thundley4]

And Bergdahl...

...but everyone in his unit is a vet-hating traitor.

Speaking of Bergdahl, there is a certain general that seems to be holding off on his report and covering for Obama.

[delilahmused]

Speaking of Bergdahl, there is a certain general that seems to be holding off on his report and covering for Obama.

Probably the same general who's hosting an essay contest for a dead Saudi.

Cindie

[dutch508]

What about that Jessica what's-her-face? Didn't she do basically the same thing? I'd think these delivery units would be targeted specifically because they bring necessary supplies to the men fighting. How do those freaking idiots know her unit didn't come under fire? Anyone in Iraq & Afghanistan were/are in danger. Heck, there've been grenades & suicide bombers in places that were supposed to be safe.

Cindie

That whole boondoggle is a complete story in it's own right although under the Combat Action Badge criteria those people would have qualified.

As for the OP I don't know if her company came under fire or not- but if they crossed the berm into Iraq they were 'in combat'. I knew lots of kids in trans units my second tour over in Iraq as we ran convoy security for them all the time. We got hit all the time too, for that matter.

[DumbAss Tanker]

What about that Jessica what's-her-face? Didn't she do basically the same thing? I'd think these delivery units would be targeted specifically because they bring necessary supplies to the men fighting. How do those freaking idiots know her unit didn't come under fire? Anyone in Iraq & Afghanistan were/are in danger. Heck, there've been grenades & suicide bombers in places that were supposed to be safe.

Cindie

Jessica Lynch was in a forward maintenance unit that took a bad turn in a hostile town, not doing the supply mission, but you're basically right.  The convoys of the transportation units were under constant attack and steadily took casualties from the invasion in 2003 until the whole surge offensive and tribal coalition strategy started bearing real fruit in 2008.

[dutch508]

The Combat Action Badge (CAB) may be awarded by any commander delegated authority by the Secretary of the Army during wartime or the CG, U.S. Army Human Resources Command and will be announced in permanent orders.

1.The requirements for award of the CAB are Branch and MOS immaterial. Assignment to a Combat Arms unit or a unit organized to conduct close or offensive combat operations, or performing offensive combat operations is not required to qualify for the CAB. However, it is not intended to award all soldiers who serve in a combat zone or imminent danger area.
2.Specific Eligibility Requirements:
a.May be awarded to any soldier.
b.Soldier must be performing assigned duties in an area where hostile fire pay or imminent danger pay is authorized.c.Soldier must be personally present and actively engaging or being engaged by the enemy, and performing satisfactorily in accordance with the prescribed rules of engagement.d.Soldier must not be assigned/attached to a unit that would qualify the soldier for the CIB/CMB.
3.May be awarded to members from the other U.S. Armed Forces and foreign soldiers assigned to a U.S. Army unit, provided they meet the above criteria.
4.Award of the CAB is authorized from 18 September 2001 to a date to be determined. Award for qualifying service in any previous conflict is not authorized.
5.Subsequent awards:
a.Only one CAB may be awarded during a qualifying period.
b.Second and third awards of the CAB for subsequent qualifying periods will be indicated by superimposing one and two stars respectively, centered at the top of the badge between the points of the oak wreath.
6.Retroactive awards for the CAB are not authorized prior to 18 September 2001, applications (to include supporting documentation) for retroactive awards of the CAB will be forwarded through the first two star general in the chain of command to CG, U.S. Army Human Resources Command, ATTN: AHRC-PDO-PA, Alexandria, VA 22332-0471.
7.Wear policy is contained in Army Regulation 670-1.
8.Soldiers may be awarded the CIB, CMB and CAB for the same qualifying period, provided the criteria for each badge is met. However, subsequent awards of the same badge within the same qualifying period are not authorized.