The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: dutch508 on April 18, 2014, 05:30:22 PM
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As some of you know by now, my mother's family was from Keiv, back in the day before Stalin and Hitler. There are a few of them left- not many.
BUT--- Nadin waxing philsophic on the plight of the Jews is, or at least should be, epic.
Haters are gonna hate, iggy lists swell, the good rig is gonna get a work out!
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you.... NADIN!
nadinbrzezinski (132,817 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024839785
On Jews being a nation
Yesterday I read here that Jews are not a nation...because land, argle bargle. That is actually an old canard from an ancient toolset going back to Rome. One of the reasons for the Expulsion from Israel after the Bar Kochbah revolt in 70 C.E. Rome wanted to destroy that national identity, ergo destroy the tie to the land.
The roots of that one go at least to the Roman Empire and antisemitism, in one form or another goes all the way to the Greeks. So sue us, praying to one god and not eating certain foods really annoyed the fun living Greeks, and damn it that re-dedication of the temple to Zeus really irked Jews. But the true roots of antisemitism go that far back. It has changed over the millenia, and for a people who are not, the modern version is ethnic. So that is kind of funny, you are not a people, but damn it we hate you for being one.
But going to the original version under Rome, after exile, they invented this theory that if you were landless you could not be a people. That is about 2000 years ago. Jews reacted by making the synagogue and the rabbinical movement (there is evidence the historical Jesus was part of this movement) the center of the community. With the temple destruction the priestly class had it's power evaporate overnight.
So for the next 2000 years wherever Jews were allowed to live for more than a generation, the first thing built was the Temple, in more modern times Gymnasiums (schools) as well as at times hospitals, cemeteries and Assisted Living facilities. In fact, Jews were the first to build what these days are known as assisted living facilities. They also took care of the orphan and the widow, and Jewish communities around the world have a support net for the poor among them. (Which I know surprised people outside the community, Jews poor? Yes poor Jews, a few ended in the streets as well)
The people also developed a very strong sense of identity. After all, the world is out to get us. So the Jewish Community has become very insular. Even in the modern day US my marriage is not common. Lord knows when my husband asked me to marry I went through all this history and told him, this rears it's ugly head every generation. So yes, Jews are a people united by traditions going back in some cases thousands of years. It has none to so with the judeo Christian tradition. It is this fear that tomorrow we will have to take money we have saved for this purpose, and a passport and leave.
This is why Israel matters by the way. For the first time Jews have a place of last resort to flee to, and not depend on invitations from kindly kings, who are in it for what you can do for us (Casimir's the Great opened Poland to Spanish Jews because of banking after the expulsion for example)
What is amazing is when I read here things with such deep roots. And in reality it is because that nasty virus that infected Western Civ over 2500 years ago is pretty much alive and well, even in the US, where Jews had to undergo quotas and at times lower pay. This is the same place where Latino, Jewish and African American soldiers were denied the CMH during the Vietnam war. This was corrected by the current administration. So while modern Jewish kids don't experience most of this, things like a man going into the JCC and opening fire are cold reminders.
So I have to say this. This denial of antisemitism over there, is also a denial of antisemitism here.
I will offer you a clue, stop doing this shit, where Jews have a need to pull to each other, whether secular (myself) or very orthodox, in a few generations might feel safe enough to stop acting like a nation. I suspect it will take over 500 years.
It is funny, I supposed in some sci if that all Bronze Age religions would go away due to the planetary crisis...the last two days have pretty much taught me, Jews as a people are not going away. It is mostly these constant reminders of being the outsider. And I realize a lot of this is not conscious. It is what people get with the culture.
Oh and as to the fliers, the chief Rabbi sending a family to register has very long echoes to well before the holocaust. The denial from officials does as well. In some cases that is what they did. So I hope those long roots have finally been severed, but I doubt it. And if we have a progromm or worst, I expect people to once again blame the victim, why didn't they get out is a damn popular question. So I will do what Jews do every time we have a crisis and go to the JCC and find out if (likely already) the hat is being quietly passed to pay for tickets out. And while I really can't afford it, will give to that. Because you know what? I know the reality.
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Nadin's post stands alone... as it should, dear readers... the unwashed masses who answer can only be a reply of:
Brigid (14,411 posts)
4. When I saw "Fiddler on the Roof" for the first time . . .
I was surprised by the undertone of sadness. Imagine being in a place for generations, then suddenly being forced out with nowhere to go. How sad.
:lol: You should watch Exodus.
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"argle, bargle"? :???:
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And in reality it is because that nasty virus that infected Western Civ over 2500 years ago is pretty much alive and well, even in the US, where Jews had to undergo quotas and at times lower pay. This is the same place where Latino, Jewish and African American soldiers were denied the CMH during the Vietnam war.
Twenty African Americans were awarded the Medal of Honor for actions in the Vietnam War, including James Anderson, Jr., the first African American Marine to receive the Medal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African-American_Medal_of_Honor_recipients#Vietnam_War).
Twenty three Hispanics were awarded the Medal of Honor for actions in the Vietnam War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hispanic_Medal_of_Honor_recipients#Vietnam_War).
One Jew was awarded the Medal of Honor for actions in the Vietnam War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_Medal_of_Honor_recipients#Vietnam_War).
Wow, that took all of twenty seconds to shoot all to shit. Hell, I even did it with her favorite source!
Stupid, worthless, fat, bitch...
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She spoke of ugly heads.................?
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Israel and the Jewish people are part of Biblical history and prophecy.
For that reason alone Nads,your fellow DUmbasses would exterminate them in a heartbeat if they could.
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I always wonder what medication she takes, that makes her babble such nonsense!! :banghead: ::)
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The Romans expelled the Jews out of antisemitism? :rotf:
The Romans treated anyone who screwed with them, or was just inconvenient to them, like livestock. If anything, the Jews got off light compared to the Gauls, the Carthaginians, the Helvetii, the Dacians...
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I wonder how many times she crashed The Google getting all that together.
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Nuclear Unicorn (10,805 posts)
28. Minor point --
The Bar Kochba rebellion was 135 CE, the 3rd of three Jewish-Roman wars. The war in 70 CE was the First Jewish-Roman war.
So much for the trained historian.
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The Romans expelled the Jews out of antisemitism? :rotf:
The Romans treated anyone who screwed with them, or was just inconvenient to them, like livestock. If anything, the Jews got off light compared to the Gauls, the Carthaginians, the Helvetii, the Dacians...
The Helvetii, the Brita, the Picts, etc etc etc...
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The Nation of Israel is a valid State and should be recognized as such. But this claim of hers that it's essentially a "safe haven" (nadin - "This is why Israel matters by the way. For the first time Jews have a place of last resort to flee to") has no basis in reality. Because of their neighbors, Jews are killed in much larger numbers in Israel than anywhere else in the world. So sure you can "flee" there, but in some respects you're less safe.
My confusion with the modern-day Jews comes from the same place most here recognize. They've aligned themselves politically with the very progressives who would have them killed if given the opportunity. So in that respect, it's a little hard to feel sorry for them if something were to happen seeing that the only ones standing between the progressives and another holocaust are the very ones of whom they are openly critical.
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So much for the trained historian.
Don't blame her.
Blame the Wikipedia article she copied.
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The Nation of Israel is a valid State and should be recognized as such. But this claim of hers that it's essentially a "safe haven" (nadin - "This is why Israel matters by the way. For the first time Jews have a place of last resort to flee to") has no basis in reality. Because of their neighbors, Jews are killed in much larger numbers in Israel than anywhere else in the world. So sure you can "flee" there, but in some respects you're less safe.
My confusion with the modern-day Jews comes from the same place most here recognize. They've aligned themselves politically with the very progressives who would have them killed if given the opportunity. So in that respect, it's a little hard to feel sorry for them if something were to happen seeing that the only ones standing between the progressives and another holocaust are the very ones of whom they are openly critical.
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We're not all bad. Some of us have cracked a history book open and know what happens when a government goes totalitarian.
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We're not all bad. Some of us have cracked a history book open and know what happens when a government goes totalitarian.
Yes, of course. And naturally my comments were directed towards those Jews who either choose to ignore this or really don't see it.
A friend of mine aligns herself with the Dems, but she recognizes and openly admits that conservatives are much more in tune with the State of Israel and basic concepts of freedom like capitalism and commerce than the libs. But because she's an atheist, she aligns herself more with the "anything goes" libs on social issues while dismissing the antisemetic viewpoints they hold. I have to wonder how often that's the case.
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The only thing I know of the Jewish faith was that my church as a kid wanted to plant trees in Israel to help the family's Jesus came from to survive.
At 14 teen or so I meet a handsome boy that that had just come into town. We hit it off quite smartly and my parents liked him.
After a few months he took me to meet his parents, very strange the home was full of stuff that my grandparents had, like walking into a museum. Old pictures on the wall in unusual frames, weird furniture made of horse hair and the antidamascares on every seat. What ever is called for the delicate work to protect the furniture from hair oil .
Quite the place. my home was modern even my grandparents homes were modern compaired to this.
The mother did not like me, she was an interesting woman and I noticed she had a tattoo on her wrist. it was years later I found out what that tattoo was all about.
Only when as an adult did I read Exodus and Mila 18 did I understand.
I will stand by the Jews what ever they do, Jesus was the King of the Jews so as old and infirm as I am, I will in some way find a way to stand up for Jesus--the King of the Jews.
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Here's a head scratcher from the Jewish Mexican:
So for the next 2000 years wherever Jews were allowed to live for more than a generation, the first thing built was the Temple, in more modern times Gymnasiums (schools)
Gymnasia? Naked wrestling schools? According to gNads, the second generation Jews were big into it.
(Which I know surprised people outside the community, Jews poor? Yes poor Jews, a few ended in the streets as well)
The trained hysterian doesn't know the origin of the word "ghetto".
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gNads is about as Jewish as I am.
"Jewish", describes a religious belief, it is not a race.
If the scrunt doesn't practice the faith, she really isn't, or can not say, she is Jewish.
Here ya go Nads. :bird:
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I always wonder what medication she takes, that makes her babble such nonsense!! :banghead: ::)
Probably a 5th of Smirnoff a day.
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nadinbrzezinski (132,867 posts)
57. Do I really have to explain this?
When the military processes human remains to return them home, they use Chaplains to pray. Believe it or not, a Jewish Chaplain might give last rights at a military hospital, and a Muslim Chaplain might read the Kaddish. But when they process soldier's remains they do it within the faith of the soldier on those bloody dog-tags.
Mine, IN MEXICO, had blood type, address, serial number and yes, religion. And trust me, it was then that I lost my religion.
And yes, some soldiers have theirs say atheist, but you mostly keep that to yourself.
Oh Nads - I thought Wiki was your friend:
Mexico[edit]
The Ejército de Mexico uses a single long, rectangular metal tag with oval ends, embossed with Name, serial number, and blood type plus Rh factor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_tag#Mexico
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55. You are confusing this to be a religion
and it is not just about a religion.
Nice try though.
And why do you think Jews have been central in many social justice movements? Oh wait, that history.
For the record, I actually debriefed people from the Maya genocide in the 1980s.
lots of resume updates in this thread.
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Oh Nads - I thought Wiki was your friend:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_tag#Mexico
Oh, that's gonna leave a mark.
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DU loves to give lip service to honoring Jews. But they despise Jews (and Christians). DU has openly sided with muslim terrorists.
But DU understands the Obama official position: Support Jews publicly, Stab them in the back in private.
When a DUer breaks that rule, he gets tombstoned. DU would love to speak as openly about their anti-Semitic hate as do with their Christian hate, but as Jews still vote for the Rats, nothing will be said out loud.
Case in point: http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,19919.0.html
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gNads is about as Jewish as I am.
"Jewish", describes a religious belief, it is not a race.
If the scrunt doesn't practice the faith, she really isn't, or can not say, she is Jewish.
Here ya go Nads. :bird:
It's a little of both, really. It's complicated.
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It's a little of both, really. It's complicated.
Hmmm. I'm not sure I believe that Nadin is of Jewish heritage. DUmmies lie.
As pompous as she is, her claim may just be another way to claim victimhood.
I've come to a point where I cannot be sure of anything those liars claim.