Author Topic: Kabbalah, a Glimpse Into Ancient Jewish History and Mysticism  (Read 4533 times)

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Offline Doc

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Author's Note: The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of the writer, merely the opinions of the scholars with whom the writer has been exposed educationally. The purpose of this discussion is to provide an insight into the thoughts of Talmudic and Rabbinical scholars on their own history, and tangentially that of both Judaism and Christianity.

If you have issues with their version of Biblical events, hop on the next El Al flight, and take it up with them.......


Since I have been old enough to really think about it, I have been an (amateur) student of religion and ancient cultures. Frankly I often wished that I had studied these subjects academically, instead of engineering and science, but I could never figure out, how I could make a living doing it.......hence my amateur status.

Back in the late 70's and 80's, my wife and I were assigned by my employer to several positions abroad. We lived in a number of countries for sometimes brief, and sometimes longer periods. We were living in Capetown, SA at the time, and I was having ongoing correspondence with a longtime friend of mine who is a Rabbi in Brooklyn (Hasidim). This Rabbi and myself had many lengthy discussions regarding the "Old Testament", and the history of the Jews. Our discussions were focused, in many cases on Genesis and Exodus.

He finally asked If we were scheduled to be assigned to anywhere in the Middle East. When I advised that our next stop would likely be Saudi Arabia,  he asked if I would like to participate in an educational conclave at Yeshiva University in Jerusalem, during one of our vacation periods. Located in Bayit VeGan, this campus houses one of the foremost bodies of Jewish historical knowledge, and scholars in the world.  I therefore literally jumped on it........however, there was a catch.......although Gentiles were VERY rare, they could be included under "special appointment".....in order to participate, I had to develop a working knowledge of Hebrew.......at least to the point where I could read the texts.

I contacted a local Rabbi in Capetown, and enrolled in Hebrew classes, which was somewhat humiliating, as I was the only adult in an entire group of six to twelve year-old boys......they had to even find a special desk that I could sit at for study purposes.  A further fly in the ointment was that after about six months of classes, we received our transfer to Jeddah.  I can't think of a single thing that is harder to find in Saudi than a Hebrew school.......however, I did find through a local Mosque a group of Imams that were working with Hebrew texts, and studying their relationship to the words in the Koran. They agreed to coach me in exchange for my agreement to study the Islamic texts as well (which I will discuss in a different treatis). Since the company had provided Arabic language training, and I was always interested in religious studies, I thought it was an excellent opportunity for additional learning.

To make a very long story short, I managed to develop a rudimentary ability to read Hebrew, and after about a year, embarked on my three-week sabbatical to Jerusalem.

The first few days were primarily devoted to pre-Abrahamic studies, and an overview of early Jewish history.  On the fourth day, I was introduced to Kabbalahism.  In Judaism, Kabbalah is the study of mysticism essentially. These scholars study the ancient texts in search of "hidden meanings", and alternate theories on the beginnings of their faith. They do this in order to find a further "closeness to G*d", and an attempt to unravel the mysteries of His works. They also attempt to provide human understanding to portions of Scripture, which, when read in context, simply make little practical sense.

With no emotional preparation, they launched right into it on the fourth day, starting with a detailed discussion of the story of Adam and Eve, in the Garden.....as written in Genesis. We were required to read several versions of the story, before a panel of scholars was convened to discuss their interpretation of what actually happened.

The overriding consensus of these scholars and Rabbis was that the "Garden of Eden" never existed........the entire story is an allegory, a metaphor that was conceived by Abraham and his followers because they had a problem......a REALLY BIG problem. Up until this time pagan polytheistic religions abounded. Somehow they had to bridge the gap between polytheism and monotheism, and particularly with the prevalent pagan sects in the area that worshipped trees as female life-giving dieties. Therefore it is no surprise that the Book of Genesis virtually opens with the description of a tree.......a tree from which one must not eat......one that cannot sustain us. This story became monotheism's rebuke of tree worship, and the then-current panoply of pagan beliefs. The story also details the transition from the "easy" idol worship and fertility cults, including tree worship......to the far, far more difficult and abstract personal spirituality that we had to work at in monotheism. One must remember that once "outside the Garden", Adam and Eve had to till the spiritual soil.

They further expounded that there are many Biblical references that appear to be intended to intice pagans into the fold......

A tree from which one must not eat......

A bush that does not burn.....

Leaves that do not wither......

Abraham and his followers understood that the road from polytheism to monotheism was not going to be an easy or a smooth one. The early monotheists began a maturation process, not only providing a path to belief, but incorporation of the early symbols into their religious ceremonies. Transitioning the "tree of life" into something metaphysical........instead of shaping idolatrous images of a tree with seven branches to worship, the early monotheists shaped the tree into a sacred object......the Menorah.

Thus ended day four of my journey.......perhaps more will follow assuming I can recall the details before senility sets in.....

It should be noted that even Christianity has over its evolution co-opted pagan symbols, holidays, and events into Church practices in order to provide a better and easier pathway to conversion and belief.  One could argue that the "ends justify the means"........apparently it is far from a new concept.

doc
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 03:13:04 PM by TVDOC »

Offline Wineslob

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Re: Kabbalah, a Glimpse Into Ancient Jewish History and Mysticism
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2011, 04:25:31 PM »
Isn't this the "darling" of the Celebutards? (Madogma for one)
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Kabbalah, a Glimpse Into Ancient Jewish History and Mysticism
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2011, 05:30:40 PM »
Isn't this the "darling" of the Celebutards? (Madogma for one)

Kabbalah has been a big deal for many Jewish scholars throughout the centuries, including heavies such as Maimonides.

Madonna, at best, can have no other motive than the same motive she has run with her entire time: to be contrarian and get attention doing it. Whether Kabbalah is good, bad or indifferent should no more be weighed by Madonna's antics any more than her claims to previous Catholic education.

That being said:

Even many Christian scholars would readily discuss Eden as an allegory or a composite re-telling. Kabbalists might claim it was intended to entice pagans into the fold--and a corollary can be found with Constantine re-shaping numerous pagan rites in Christian form--but many things in the Bible share pagan equivalents, i.e. the Noachian flood. In fact the flood story is as universal as the purported scope of the deluge itself.

Many skeptics claim this proves monotheism is just refined paganism, ergo it is untrue.

This seems to betray a bias on the scholar's part when they could just as easily suppose that paganism is diluted/fractured monotheism.

Literal or not, I do think the Edenic tale best describes humanity, i.e.: seeking godhood they affect only their own ruin and once imbued with moral insight they thought they wanted they hide, blame-shift and ultimately curse the God who only wanted to come out and meet them on their level and offer forgiveness.

That describes humans more perfectly than any psychology text. It is also pretty profound for a self-exiled goat-herd.

For the record, I'm against a literalist view of the Edenic tale as it leads people into silly things like believing the Earth is only 6,000 years old. One can call it allegory without rendering any violence to the balance of scripture.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline vesta111

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Re: Kabbalah, a Glimpse Into Ancient Jewish History and Mysticism
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2011, 05:49:52 AM »
Kabbalah has been a big deal for many Jewish scholars throughout the centuries, including heavies such as Maimonides.

Madonna, at best, can have no other motive than the same motive she has run with her entire time: to be contrarian and get attention doing it. Whether Kabbalah is good, bad or indifferent should no more be weighed by Madonna's antics any more than her claims to previous Catholic education.

That being said:

Even many Christian scholars would readily discuss Eden as an allegory or a composite re-telling. Kabbalists might claim it was intended to entice pagans into the fold--and a corollary can be found with Constantine re-shaping numerous pagan rites in Christian form--but many things in the Bible share pagan equivalents, i.e. the Noachian flood. In fact the flood story is as universal as the purported scope of the deluge itself.

Many skeptics claim this proves monotheism is just refined paganism, ergo it is untrue.

This seems to betray a bias on the scholar's part when they could just as easily suppose that paganism is diluted/fractured monotheism.

Literal or not, I do think the Edenic tale best describes humanity, i.e.: seeking godhood they affect only their own ruin and once imbued with moral insight they thought they wanted they hide, blame-shift and ultimately curse the God who only wanted to come out and meet them on their level and offer forgiveness.

That describes humans more perfectly than any psychology text. It is also pretty profound for a self-exiled goat-herd.

For the record, I'm against a literalist view of the Edenic tale as it leads people into silly things like believing the Earth is only 6,000 years old. One can call it allegory without rendering any violence to the balance of scripture.

TVDoc & Mr. Bunny,   THANK YOU.

I often wondered if history of Adam and Eve was not a political statement.

Adam spoke to God, did God speak to EVE as he did Adam??

Adam was told by God to stay away from this 'tree', Told Adam he had controll of all things on earth, except that darn tree.

God left it up to Adam to relay information he received from God to his help mate, did Adam do this or feel jealous if God were to  also speak to EVE???

If just say if Eve had not met God and relied on Adam, and began to experiment with herbs and the bounty, would not her attention have been drawn to the fruit of the tree when it fell and began to ferment in the sun???

Woman were the gatherers of that time to today.  Men hunt, woman gather and experiment with what they find.

In today's words,-

Say Adam I want to head out and do some cooking with that fruit on the ground under that tree that you for some reason avoid.

EVE stay away from that tree, My good friend God says it is poison to humans.

EVE to Adam, how come I never get to know this God you speak of, are you holding out on me?

Adam to Eve, this is a man thing Eve you can never understand, You are my companion but never my equal, you cannot speak to God unless I give you permission to do so.

So Eve with her feelings hurt just happen to find a snake that speaks her language, nasty little critter but the only thing in her world besides Adam to talk to.

She is confused as to why she cannot know God as Adam does, and the snake -----Only living creature she ever met that could talk to her, Tell her all kinds of lies about Adam and this Buddy of his he calls God.

Now we have to remember Adam was in controll of all the beasts on earth, God never told him that he had to watch out for talking snakes.


Offline vesta111

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Re: Kabbalah, a Glimpse Into Ancient Jewish History and Mysticism
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2011, 06:30:49 AM »
Eve may have come from the rib of a man but her brain was built in special, she for instance could not breed, had no sex impulses or even thought about multiplying.  They were both asexual both innocent and pure from any sex drive.

Both may have looked at the growing animals and wondered where the little ones were coming from but had not a clue they could do this themselves.

So as Eve could get no answers from Adam---what did he know--she asked the snake. The snake told her to watch the
antics or the goats or sheep .    Later when she spoke to the snake he told her she also could reproduce  the same way but only if she and Adam ate the fallen fruit that had fomented on the ground.

Why not,  Curiosity is a built in woman thing, so she gatherer's up the fruit and runs to Adam,, What is your buddy God not telling you, why does you friend not talk to me, -------do you wish to walk off from me , your choice Me or God.

So Adam a not too bright male chooses woman over God.

This is now considered the fault of woman, A male now hates the woman that tempted him and ---this is all her fault.

Adam had no choice, it seems, so now on to thousands of years of punishing woman for  a Oh OH male that could not stand his ground.   All Adams fault he should have walked away, should have had a conference call with God on what to do next.



Just saying---------

Offline Splashdown

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Re: Kabbalah, a Glimpse Into Ancient Jewish History and Mysticism
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2011, 07:41:51 AM »
Abraham and his followers understood that the road from polytheism to monotheism was not going to be an easy or a smooth one. The early monotheists began a maturation process, not only providing a path to belief, but incorporation of the early symbols into their religious ceremonies. Transitioning the "tree of life" into something metaphysical........instead of shaping idolatrous images of a tree with seven branches to worship, the early monotheists shaped the tree into a sacred object......the Menorah.

Thus ended day four of my journey.......perhaps more will follow assuming I can recall the details before senility sets in.....

It should be noted that even Christianity has over its evolution co-opted pagan symbols, holidays, and events into Church practices in order to provide a better and easier pathway to conversion and belief.  One could argue that the "ends justify the means"........apparently it is far from a new concept.

doc

Doc, Some interesting stuff. In lots of places in the Pentautech, Other gods are not only mentioned, but confronted. Heck, look at the First Commandment. It doesn't deny the existenc of other gods, just says that YHWH or JHVH (depending on your spelling) is the one to be worshiped.

In the Moses vs. Pharo's priests story, the priests have some serious power. Moses has more, but the priests do have some powerful juju.  God calls himself a "jealous God."
Let nothing trouble you,
Let nothing frighten you. 
All things are passing;
God never changes.
Patience attains all that it strives for.
He who has God lacks nothing:
God alone suffices.
--St. Theresa of Avila



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Offline TVDOC

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Re: Kabbalah, a Glimpse Into Ancient Jewish History and Mysticism
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2011, 04:36:46 PM »
Doc, Some interesting stuff. In lots of places in the Pentautech, Other gods are not only mentioned, but confronted. Heck, look at the First Commandment. It doesn't deny the existenc of other gods, just says that YHWH or JHVH (depending on your spelling) is the one to be worshiped.

In the Moses vs. Pharaoh's priests story, the priests have some serious power. Moses has more, but the priests do have some powerful juju.  God calls himself a "jealous God."


True.....perhaps a topic for a different thread, but along with the above discussion the scholars were debating the presence of other people that were living at the time of Adam and Eve........there are veiled references in Scripture, however the consensus was that too many unanswered questions exist regarding their descendants for there to not to have been.

A whole different brand of allegory......

doc
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Kabbalah, a Glimpse Into Ancient Jewish History and Mysticism
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2011, 06:13:09 PM »
True.....perhaps a topic for a different thread, but along with the above discussion the scholars were debating the presence of other people that were living at the time of Adam and Eve........there are veiled references in Scripture, however the consensus was that too many unanswered questions exist regarding their descendants for there to not to have been.

A whole different brand of allegory......

doc

I think "scholars" like Henry Morris who insist on a tittle and jot literal interpretation of Gan Eden do their cause more harm than good.

F'r'instance. The serpent is the "nachash" or shining one, if literally translated. "Shining one" is quiet a descriptive way's away from a snake. It may refer to a radiant luminence such as Lucifer being the morning star who fell like lightning. Shining one could also be taken to mean one who is illuminated, i.e. as possessing knowledge/wisdom/revelation others do not.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline vesta111

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Re: Kabbalah, a Glimpse Into Ancient Jewish History and Mysticism
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2011, 09:59:47 AM »
True.....perhaps a topic for a different thread, but along with the above discussion the scholars were debating the presence of other people that were living at the time of Adam and Eve........there are veiled references in Scripture, however the consensus was that too many unanswered questions exist regarding their descendants for there to not to have been.

A whole different brand of allegory......

doc

Doc, who were the so called angels that took human woman for wives ?????

Who were the giants that lived at that time?????

Interesting time, God made the world and placed just 2 people apon it, What was Lucifer doing at that time, he and his army of devils were ignoring what God was doing?????

It is said that God made humans in his own imiage, how did he become so angry he caused his two beings to suffer from disobaying his word.?????

Come to think about it, why has his people the Jews had to suffer for 10,000 years, they followed his word, never forsake him----did as told and still suffered, died and still worpshiped HIM.

Jesus came and to deliver a message that thousands of years old beliefs had come to an end, God was now kind and loving, some how he had changed when Jesus was born.

Odd that the very same people Jesus came from were still hated and run out of society, still scorned and killed on sight.

Now the Big question, ----If Jesus was a  Jew, why do the Christians hate, nor him but the very thing he came from???     If Jesus was in fact God on earth, why do the Christians have anything against his people, Him and his people.?????

Should not Christians rally about his people and Gods people, should Christians not be protecting Isreal ??

When the time comes when I go into a Christian church and the OLD Testement is not read, then I will realise that the Christan Church no longer believes that Jesus , Joseph and Mary were in fact Jews.