How insane is it that you could own a deadly machine like an AR-15

[dutch508]

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216208052

How insane is it that you could own a deadly machine like an AR-15 and not need to register it?
Apparently you can own "long guns" like AR-15s in states like Missouri and Texas and not be required to register them.

63 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
Diabolically insane
40 (63%)
Just regular amount insane
8 (13%)
A little bit insane
1 (2%)
Not insane at all
14 (22%)
Not requiring registration for deadly machines is a good idea.
0 (0%)
1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.

 

Star Member Aristus (57,610 posts)

1. In places like Misery and Tex-ass, toxic is the only kind of masculinity.

In the One-Star Yelp Review State, it won’t be too long before some goober runs for Governor on a platform of mandatory gun ownership.

Star Member Kaleva (29,209 posts)

4. Very few states require registration of certain types of long gun

I don't know how accurate, up to date, the below is but it will give one an idea.

https://ballotpedia.org/Firearm_registration_requirements_by_state

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)

5. More states PROHIBIT registries than requires them!!?

I am beginning to believe that this DUmpmonkie has no clue about what an AR-15 is...

hack89 (38,913 posts)

7. Adam Lanza's AR-15 was registered

It is almost like crazy people don’t care.

How exactly does registration save lives?

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)

14. Should people who use their weapons in a crime be held accountable?

And if they should be held accountable, should we make it easier instead of harder, to track those individuals? That is where registration comes in. When a vehicle is used Ina bank robbery. The first thing that is done is track the vehicle through it's registration. If we are required to register vehicles which are not deadly weapons for each purchase, why in the world should we not require registration for actual deadly weapons?

And also, if a gun cannot be tracked, is it more or less likely to be used in another crime if it is not able to be found? Registration increases likelihood of confiscation of a firearm if it is used in a crime and can prevent that weapon from being used in the future.

 

MichMan (6,001 posts)

19. Vehicles are registered for tax purposes to fund roads etc

Not in order that they can be tracked if used in a crime

 

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)

23. They are regularly used for that purpose, actually

Police use vehicle registration as the first thing to see if they pull somebody over. If a vehicle is used in a crime, registration can be the first lead for the crime.

I also believe this DUmpmonkie doesn't understand how the police work, either.

MichMan (6,001 posts)

30. People can see a license plate on a get away car if the criminal hasn't removed it

How is someone witnessing a drive by shooting or armed robbery going to identify the suspect based on the gun being registered or not ?

The analogy makes no sense

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)

32. Not an analogy. Just common sense.

Guns are often disposed of after a crime. Without registration, it is clearly harder to pick up a lead on the weapon than with it.

MichMan (6,001 posts)

29. People that do use a gun in a crime are held accountable

When they are prosecuted for the crime it was used in.

How does registration have anything to do with a gun being confiscated if used in a crime ? If the criminal is caught with a gun while committing a crime it isn't returned to them for the next crime. If the person committing a crime is not caught, how would law enforcement know what gun was used.

What makes you think someone pre disposed to murder, maim or commit armed robbery with a gun in the first place, will be diligent about following gun registration laws ?

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)

33. Actually most people who commit a crime with a gun likely get away with it

Registration can provide an immediate lead when the firearm is found. Without requiring registration, we give up that possibility.

hack89 (38,913 posts)

56. Then you should be registering handguns, not rifles.

for every one crime committed with a rifle, nine are committed with a handgun.

There are several problems you will not be able to overcome when it comes to registering rifles:

1. People will simply not comply. Look at the compliance rate for registration in CT and NY - it is in the low teens.

2. There are tens of millions of rifles that are presently unregistered that will never be registered. The government has no idea who owns them so they cannot track down the owners.

3. Criminals will not register their weapons.

4. Mass shooters will register theirs because they don't care. Don't need registration to track down the shooter.

Star Member BeckyDem (6,753 posts)

12. It is insane to own an AR-15.

Americans are armed to the extent they are to do what, exactly? Hunt?

Sick America.

Dial H For Hero (2,053 posts)

15. The AR-15 is actually one of the most popular hunting rifles in America.

Star Member PTWB (3,480 posts)

18. What's wrong with hunting?

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)

20. Sorry you have a typo.

I think you meant "what's wrong with hunting with an AR-15?"

what an asshole...

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)

28. For one it encourages hunters to waste ammo through the high capacity mags

Another is that it isn't necessary as a hunting rifle. Regular hunting rifles are efficicient enough to do the job.

My question is why do you think you need to use the same weapon issued in the military to kill people in another country, for hunting?

Star Member PTWB (3,480 posts)

46. Many states limit the maximum magazine capacity when hunting

What is the functional difference between an AR-15 or AR-10 platform from any other semi automatic rifle?

Here is a photo of a semi automatic rifle with a detachable box magazine. This rifle is chambered in 30-06, which is significantly more powerful than anything that AR-15 platforms are chambered in, and moderately more powerful than what you’ll find chambered in the AR-10 platform.

It’s also the same style of hunting rifle used by my grandfather.

What’s the functional, meaningful difference?

photo was deleted... probably too scary for DU...

cadoman (559 posts)

50. that the AR-15 equates to high capacity is a pretty common misconception

The reason the AR-15 platform is so popular is because it's 100% customizable. An AR-15 lower can be customized as a long gun, a pistol, or anything in between. It can be modified to shoot almost any caliber, from plinker friendly 22 LR, to pistol ammunition such as 9MM, up to full blown rifle ammunition. It can be automatic or semi-automatic. The magazines can be low capacity or high capacity.

This is what an AR-15 "lower" is, no joke:

https://search.brave.com/images?q=ar-15%20lower

Someone using their AR for hunting would likely equip a low capacity magazine for weight and ease of transport. The exception to that being people who are hunting wild hogs.

Both hunting rifles and ARs can be deadly. A pistol with a high capacity clip is not really much different than an AR with a high capacity clip. A person with a 9MM and a few magazines is just as scary as someone with an AR-15 in my opinion, especially with how easy it is to hide a small handgun. At least with a larger weapon you can see they have it.

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)

52. The "easily modifiable" part is kinda my point.

It can just as easily be modified into a far more deadly weapon than otherwise.

How do you make it 'far more deadly'? DUmbass...

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)

31. An AR-15 is not just a semi automatic rifle. Nor is it a shotgun.

It is a high capacity magazine fed , , gas-operated, air-cooled, semiautomatic or three-round burst, hand-held, shoulder-fired weapon.

Distinctly different from a small magazine hunting rifle that was not produced to fire multiple rounds at once.

  No... that would be an M16A3/4 or M4, DUmbass.

EX500rider (7,511 posts)

36. Yeah the civilian ones don't have 3 round burst

One pull of the trigger for each shot like any semi auto rifle.

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)

39. Easily modifiable.

And it isn't hard to pull your trigger finger quickly enough to simulate in any ways with a higher capacity magazine.

 

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)

49. ...

https://www.quora.com/Legality-aside-how-hard-is-it-to-convert-an-AR15-to-fully-automatic

You know what can't easily be converted into full auto? A regular hunting rifle.

from the video:

ANDY ORLANDO
781 subscribers
Note, please realize this is satire. If you own a firearm and think any aspect of this video is serious please sell your weapons immediately and take up tennis or another hobby.

MarineCombatEngineer (4,926 posts)

59. I wouldn't take anything the OP says about this subject seriously,

pretty obvious that the OP knows not of what he/she is talking about.

 

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)

69. Right. I'm not a gun nut.

I have however lost two dear friends to guns. One in a mass shooting and the other in an accident.


And I see no reason to think guns have any place in a civil society.

  ...right....

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)

57. Actually I don't think that a criminal is going to convert their weapon to fully auto

For the purpose hunting. But the fact that they can easily do that very highly illegal thing is a very good reason why AR15s should not be sold.

Star Member PTWB (3,480 posts)

60. That's ridiculous.

It’s already highly illegal to convert a semi automatic rifle to a fully automatic rifle without following the very restrictive federal guidelines. The machine gun registry has been closed for decades.

Are you under the impression that any fully automatic rifles, illegally converted or legally owned, are used in a significant number of crimes or gun violence?

If you are under that impression, please post some links to studies that back that assertion up.

I’ll go ahead and any that you will not because they don’t exist.

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)

62. Why do you think semi automatic weapons are necessary?

I don't think they are used in a statistically meaningful way in crimes, but that doesn't mean they should be easily attained.

Why do you believe semi automatic weapons are a practical necessity in American society?

 

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)

66. I'm talking about allowing AR15s to be sold en masse.

Easily converting them is one issue that makes them a safety concern. Being an easily modifiable weapon makes them a safety concern. I don't see their purpose in a civil society. What purpose do you see weapons like AR-15s in a civil society?

Star Member PTWB (3,480 posts)

68. They're fantastic rifles.

They’re versatile, lightweight, and reliable.

Why are you focused on the AR-15? We’ve already established that they’re not used in a statistically significant number of gun crimes in our country.

If your concern is gun violence, why are you focused on something that accounts for just a few percentage points of our annual gun violence instead of handguns, which account for ~90%?

If you want to ban ARs, you need to come up with a compelling reason, not demand that owners of ARs come up with a compelling reason not to ban them. That isn’t how our constitution works.

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)

71. For me, I lost a friend in a mass shooting

It happened to be an AR-15 that was used on her.

I do believe that if that person could not attain said weapon she may still be alive.

 

MarineCombatEngineer (4,926 posts)

79. Let's game this out.........

if a law were passed tomorrow banning the ownership of firearms, how would it be enforced?
How would you collect the more than 300 million firearms already in private hands, and that's just an estimate, since most states don't require registration.

And, how would you prevent a civil war?
Oh, and how would you get any court in the country to uphold such a ban? You thing the SCOTUS would rule such a ban Constitutional?

These are issues to mull on.

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)

82. I think the fact that "how would you prevent a civil war if guns were banned"

Is such a reasonable question, makes the need for banning guns sooner even more imminent. I agree it isn't likely to happen anytime soon. Or at least not overnight. But that doesn't make their presence in society any more practical.

 

Dial H For Hero (2,053 posts)

44. An AR-15 *is* a semiautomatic rifle. When used to hunt, the user must obey all relevant game

regulations. One of these (typically) is being restricted to a magazine of no more than 5 rounds.

What is the practical difference between an AR-15 in .300 blackout using a 5 round magazine and a Winchester Model 1905 in .32 SL using a 5 round magazine? Other than looks....nada.

three-round burst

Incorrect. The AR-15 cannot fire in three round burst mode.

Distinctly different from a small magazine hunting rifle that was not produced to fire multiple rounds at once.


Incorrect. The AR-15, when being used for hunting, is a small magazine rifle that was not produced to fire multiple rounds at once. It can only fire once per pull of the trigger.

And by the way, AR-15 shotguns have become quite popular. Here's a pic of one:

pic deleted.

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)

45. The AR-15 when being used for hunting

.... Is not legally allowed to use all of the things that an AR-15 is already built to include. Makes me think a regular hunting rifle built to the regulatory standards will suffice

Dial H For Hero (2,053 posts)

51. The Winchester Model 1905 I mentioned had a 10 round magazine manufactured for it.

It is not legally (when being used for hunting) allowed to use all of the things it was built to include.

So what's the difference?

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)

53. Was your Winchester originally built for the military?

ARs were.

I mostly use a Springfield 1903 30.06 bolt action rifle with a 4-12 Redfield scope. It's a surplus military rifle from WW1...

Dial H For Hero (2,053 posts)

61. Nope. My 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle was, though. So what?

 

For that matter, the majority of bolt action rifles used for hunting are based on the Mauser Model 1898. As for the AR-15, while they are indeed based upon the M16, they are built for civilian use, not military.

Heck, I have a Colt 1911 .45 that's US Army issue. Should that be treated any differently than a civilian handgun?

LiberatedUSA (1,046 posts)

37. Considering we are in a fight for democracy right now.

Gun nuts have zero worry about any sort of gun bans happening right now.

Edit for clarity:

We need to worry about voting. Without voting, you don’t get to pass gun laws.

 

[jukin]

Yeah about that. 300/330,000,000 = .00009% or .0000009 a statistical anomaly.

[FlaGator]

In Florida, no guns are registered. They make note of it when a gun is purchased from a dealer because of the background check but there is no registry of ownership that someone's name is added to. There is no activity that someone must take to register a gun when one is purchased privately. I think this is try of most red states.

[67 Rover]

Star Member Aristus (57,610 posts)

1. In places like Misery and Tex-ass, toxic is the only kind of masculinity.

In the One-Star Yelp Review State, it won’t be too long before some goober runs for Governor on a platform of mandatory gun ownership.

Yes, heaven forbid a state ends up one of the safest places to live like Kennesaw Georgia. 

[BamaMoose]

Star Member ColinC (3,990 posts)

49. ...

https://www.quora.com/Legality-aside-how-hard-is-it-to-convert-an-AR15-to-fully-automatic

You know what can't easily be converted into full auto? A regular hunting rifle.

The video at that link:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChdOmIb2_Us is hilarious.  Can't believe anyone takes it serious, but there is no bottom to the pit of Democrat stupidity when guns are involved.

[SVPete]

Any good exploding pig stories? That I've seen, pig hunters seem to like 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 Creedmore, and .308, all of which are larger than 5.56 mm//.223. But what do expert pig hunters know?

[Zathras]

I've said this before but I have just 2 questions for the DUmbass ColinC....

1: Does the 1st Amendment apply to TV, radio and/or the internet?
2: Does the 4th Amendment apply to electronic and/or video surveillance?

If the answer to either of these questions is yes then the 2nd Amendment applies to modern firearms like the Armalite Rifle 15.

[Patriot Guard Rider]

Those people continually amaze me because they KNOW they're the smartest people on the internet with the knowledge to tell everyone else how to live.

[jukin]

My grandpa had a full auto bolt action rifle.

[freedumb2003b]

I've said this before but I have just 2 questions for the DUmbass ColinC....

1: Does the 1st Amendment apply to TV, radio and/or the internet?
2: Does the 4th Amendment apply to electronic and/or video surveillance?

If the answer to either of these questions is yes then the 2nd Amendment applies to modern firearms like the Armalite Rifle 15.

Many/most lefties continue to think AR means "Assault Rifle."  That one is a gift from Armalite that keeps giving.

[freedumb2003b]

I've said this before but I have just 2 questions for the DUmbass ColinC....

1: Does the 1st Amendment apply to TV, radio and/or the internet?
2: Does the 4th Amendment apply to electronic and/or video surveillance?

If the answer to either of these questions is yes then the 2nd Amendment applies to modern firearms like the Armalite Rifle 15.

When they talk about right being relative I just say, "Great! let's apply that to the 13th and 19th!"

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Apart from target practice, I have fired 2 shots with my AR. I bagged 1 coyote. If not for the semi-auto, I never would have gotten the 2nd shot in time.

[DefiantSix]

Apart from target practice, I have fired 2 shots with my AR. I bagged 1 coyote. If not for the semi-auto, I never would have gotten the 2nd shot in time.

You really shouldn't boast about your off-hours, "counter human smuggling" operations like that here. The lurking DUmbasses might think you were shooting innocent members of Canis latrans in the wild, and their "animal rights" impulses would go unhinged. Again...

😈

[67 Rover]

Apart from target practice, I have fired 2 shots with my AR. I bagged 1 coyote. If not for the semi-auto, I never would have gotten the 2nd shot in time.

You forgot to mention that you were shooting from a helicopter! 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

You really shouldn't boast about your off-hours, "counter human smuggling" operations like that here...

I'm actually somewhat proud of my shot.

My son saw the coyote run through our yard. he ran outside, as I grabbed the rifle. We found blood in the snow and started tracking. When we got to the seasonal creek that runs behind the property, he said he heard eating sounds. then he spotted the coyote eating one of our ducks.

I said, "Clear the shot, boy," as I pulled the charging handle. He stepped aside.

I'll be honest, the first shot went wild. No alignment between front post and the peep. But the 'yote took off running. He went lateral across a hill on the opposite side of the creek. I chastised myself for my first reckless shot, leaned into the rifle and put the front post on the 'yote's nose. I must have had to swing a good 90 degrees just to track him.

My second shot rolled the little bastard from 40 feet away as it was at a dead run. Right through the intestines and liver.