The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Freeper on March 17, 2012, 10:45:35 PM
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cynatnite
I Love Abortion: Implying Otherwise Accomplishes Nothing for Women's Rights
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However, there is no need to suggest that abortion be rare. To say so implies a value judgement, promoting the idea that abortion is somehow distasteful or immoral and should be avoided. Even with affordable, accessible birth control, there will be user errors, condoms that break, moments of spontaneity. The best contraceptive access in the world won't change the fact that we are merely human and imperfect in our routines. The best access in the world also won't change the fact that some women are raped, while others find that even wanted pregnancies sometimes need to be terminated for the woman's well-being or to avoid birthing a child with painful or unmanageable disabilities. Women who find themselves facing any of these situations shouldn't feel guilty for failing to keep the numbers low.
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Nevertheless, even in the face of such (hypothetical) strides, we must remember that extenuating circumstances like health, contraceptive failure, and rape mean that abortion will always be a normal, necessary, and reasonable choice for many women. As such, we must avoid stigmatizing it in any way. No woman benefits from even the vaguest insinuation that abortion is an immoral or objectionable option. That's the weak argument made by misogynistic, forced-birth advocates, and it has no place in a dialogue about reproductive freedom. Terminating a pregnancy is not an unethical act, yet suggesting that abortion should be rare implies that there is something undesirable about having one.
Similarly, I've heard reproductive rights activists claim that “no one likes abortion,†in an attempt to find common ground with anti-choicers. While it may be true that no one likes the physical act of having an abortion (any more than she may like her yearly mammogram, life-saving chemotherapy, or temporarily uncomfortable dental surgery), a great many women like abortion itself. They like knowing that an unwanted pregnancy does not have to yield an unwanted child. They like knowing that their mental and physical health take precedence over an embryo. They like knowing that they own their bodies. Many medical procedures are physically unpleasant, but that doesn't lessen how grateful we are to have them available when we need them.
Suggesting that abortion be “safe, legal, and rare,†and crowing that “no one likes abortion,†accomplishes nothing for women's rights. Pandering to the anti-choice movement by implying that we all find termination distasteful only fuels the fire against it. What good is common ground if it must be achieved at the expense of women who have had or will have abortions? Those women need advocates like us more than we need support from anti-abortionists. Rather than trying to cozy up to the forced-birth camp, women who value their freedom should be proud to say that they like abortion. In fact, they should venerate it whole-heartedly. Abortion is our last refuge, the one final, definitive instrument that secures our bodily autonomy. What's not to love?
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/article/2012/03/14/choice-words-about-abortion-0
She is right.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002436802
And if you call them pro abortion, they howl like a stuck pig.
This is just sickening.
EFerrari
5. The phrase should be "safe, legal and accessible".
Because in no case should such an important health measure be pushed into the margins of "rarity" along with unicorns and hens' teeth.
Honeycombe8
7. You have a right to your view. But I couldn't disagree more.
People who are pro-choice don't say that "abortion should be rare" because they're trying to appease pro-lifers. They truly believe that abortion should be rare. To give their words some intent that you think they mean, by reading their minds, is insulting to their point of view.
As a woman and feminist, I say that abortion is not just a medical procedure. Most women grow up assuming, maybe hoping, that they will have children one day. When many women get pregnant, there is an emotional reaction to that news at a gut level that is unlike hearing "you have a slow growing benign tumor that needs removal."
Then there is also the issue of the man involved. Sometimes the woman is deserted upon hearing the pregnancy news, and that is the reason for the abortion. Or maybe the man pushes her to get an abortion. Or perhaps the parents want the problem to go away (via abortion).
So there are thousands of years of biology mixed in with the reaction to the pregnancy, the biological urge to have babies or protect the fetus, plus the current emotional turmoil because of the circumstances and other people involved. Then there is the lasting memory of the solution to the problem. For some women, no problem. But for others, they have a problem with that in the future. And for a few, they may realize that that was their only chance to have a child, and knowing that, would they do that again.
It's a complicated matter for many women. It's not just a medical procedure to be used in lieu of birth control pills. The procedure itself (a D&C) is painful, as well, and may scrape her out so good that she can never have children.
Abortion should be up to the woman who has to carry the child. It's her body. But it downplays the seriousness of the situation for the women involved to treat it so offhandedly and to say that it's okay for it to be a common occurrence for any woman. If it is, I think it's an indication that there is something psychological at play there. It's a serious decision not to be taken lightly. She should be told of what could happen. She should be helped, if abortion is not her preferred way to go (there is no help for women in small cities & rural areas). She should be asked if the decision made is truly hers and hers alone (I knew a young woman who was coerced into getting an abortion). It's serious. There are consequences. But if she wants one, she has that choice.
Let's not pretend it's like a slow growing benign tumor.
I just can't understand the mentality that the only thing that matters is the woman's choice. Just imagine the crying and wailing if men were given the power to decide whether the unborn live or die. :banghead:
EFerrari
13. To Teddy and to my friend Odin, I'll only quote Whoopee Goldberg.
"When was the last time you were pregnant?"
When was the last time that a doctor stuck a pair of scissors in your skull and sucked your brains out?
Maybe that's the problem, Beth is a failed abortion, that would explain her lack of anything even resembling an intellect.
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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #7)
Sat Mar 17, 2012, 09:41 PM
cynatnite
14. She is trying to strip away the shame that is associated with abortion...
Women should not feel the shame of having one. As women, we know there is an emotional component associated because of the reality of the procedure, but should we feel guilty as if we should never had one in the first place? I think this is what she is getting at.
Having an abortion implies that we women are at fault. That we did something wrong. She is saying, I think, that we should not have to feel that way. We should not be in the position of feeling that way.
This is why I agree with her.
The Dummies can try but the fact remains that abortion takes a life.
Changing the meaning of the words won't change that fact. :bird:
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I didn't have to read more than the first paragraph.
Effed in the head. Depraved really. Has no earthly idea what it means to be a woman or just a human being at all.
Perfect example of the reasoning to be found in the depths of our worst prisons. (and for good reason)
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People that justify abortion with no recognition of the humanity of the murdered child should never be allowed the chance to get pregnant. Every pregnant woman = at least 2 human lives, not 1.
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I think abortions should be rare.....very rare.
With all the knowlwdge, education, contraceptives out the ass and easy access to all of it, why do we need so many abortions? And why do "these wymins" make it so...so...so...I don't know.... so casual that women will be saying, "Oh, I got to stop by the abortionist on my home honey. I'll be running a few minutes late."
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Merely attempting to justify what she, in her heart, knows to be wrong. Get others to accept it and she doesn't have to face the fact that she caused a human life to be ended. It is trying to apply the mob mentality after the fact.
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Merely attempting to justify what she, in her heart, knows to be wrong. Get others to accept it and she doesn't have to face the fact that she caused a human life to be ended. It is trying to apply the mob mentality after the fact.
Pro lifers never ever have to justify to anyone what they believe in, pro abortion people have to justify to everyone including themselves their views. The mental gymnastics one has to go through to justify abortion is intense.
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Pro lifers never ever have to justify to anyone what they believe in, pro abortion people have to justify to everyone including themselves their views. The mental gymnastics one has to go through to justify abortion is intense.
:exactly:
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It's impossible to be pro women's rights if you love abortion. Over 50% of the abortions kill females. Libs aren't very good at thinking their positions through.
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EFerrari
13. To Teddy and to my friend Odin, I'll only quote Whoopee Goldberg.
"When was the last time you were pregnant?"
This implies that men get no say so because they don't actually experience pregnancy. They do get to experience something though a woman doesn't--having to stand idly by while someone else makes a life or death decision about the future of one's child. I can't imagine how gutwrenching that is for a man who actually cares about the offspring he created-whether in a 'moment of spontaneity' or from failed birth control.
And what of women? Many of us have been pregnant, multiple times, and still abhor abortion? What quip of stupidity do you have to attempt to silence us with?
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esponse to Honeycombe8 (Reply #7)
Sat Mar 17, 2012, 09:41 PM
cynatnite
14. She is trying to strip away the shame that is associated with abortion...
Women should not feel the shame of having one. As women, we know there is an emotional component associated because of the reality of the procedure, but should we feel guilty as if we should never had one in the first place? I think this is what she is getting at.
Having an abortion implies that we women are at fault. That we did something wrong. She is saying, I think, that we should not have to feel that way. We should not be in the position of feeling that way.
This is why I agree with her.
Shame? I think a lot more of it is the solemnity some women feel with what they are having to do for whatever reason involves taking the life of another human being. So we strip this away now too? We celebrate that we have to off someone else as a matter of convenience for ourselves? Maybe the dummies are right because anyone who feels this way is not qualified to be honored with the title mother. To put this in perspective, this is like celebrating having to declare bankruptcy or getting foreclosed on. Yes, some of it is shame or disappointment, but more of it is recognizing it's just a crappy choice that has to be made in less then ideal circumstances.
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This implies that men get no say so because they don't actually experience pregnancy. They do get to experience something though a woman doesn't--having to stand idly by while someone else makes a life or death decision about the future of one's child. I can't imagine how gutwrenching that is for a man who actually cares about the offspring he created-whether in a 'moment of spontaneity' or from failed birth control.
And what of women? Many of us have been pregnant, multiple times, and still abhor abortion? What quip of stupidity do you have to attempt to silence us with?
This is not an implication, men actually possess no say in whether their child lives or dies. The only thing that changes a pregnancy from "a blob of cells" to "a baby" is the mother's opinion.
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This is not an implication, men actually possess no say in whether their child lives or dies. The only thing that changes a pregnancy from "a blob of cells" to "a baby" is the mother's opinion.
I understand that. I'm saying her quip implies that men should just shut up and sit down because they could never understand...sounds like a sexist position in my mind. Imagine that...liberals being sexists. :-)
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This essay (or whatever it's supposed to be) needs to be published everywhere. It's a rare example of leftist honesty. How do you think this essay would play with the vast majority of Americans?
When lefties are honest, they're the best political weapon we have.
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I understand that. I'm saying her quip implies that men should just shut up and sit down because they could never understand...sounds like a sexist position in my mind. Imagine that...liberals being sexists. :-)
:lol:
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To put this in perspective, this is like celebrating having to declare bankruptcy or getting foreclosed on. Yes, some of it is shame or disappointment, but more of it is recognizing it's just a crappy choice that has to be made in less then ideal circumstances.
The morons at DU celebrate that too, as sticking it to the man.
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The morons at DU celebrate that too, as sticking it to the man.
Along with being unemployed and qualifying for their SSI jackpot. Ugh, they are just ridiculous.
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This essay (or whatever it's supposed to be) needs to be published everywhere. It's a rare example of leftist honesty. How do you think this essay would play with the vast majority of Americans?
When lefties are honest, they're the best political weapon we have.
I agree. And I can't for the life of me understand the left embracing this mandated birth control/aborti-facient/sterilization nonsense. It is THE antithesis of feminism. To me it reeks of "I am such a weak and inept woman, incapable of providing for my own sustinence, that I need to be saved by society". How F'ing weak.
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The morons at DU celebrate that too, as sticking it to the man.
To love abortion, you have to let go of your love of sticking it to the man, in favor of the woman.
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EFerrari
13. To Teddy and to my friend Odin, I'll only quote Whoopee Goldberg.
"When was the last time you were pregnant?"
Ok cool! Since it's "your body" and "your choice" then if you want to keep it it's "your responsibility"That's fair ! Right....Beth? Not that anyone would want to be anywhere near that old fetid clam of yours. But keep dreaming doll! :bird:
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Ok cool! Since it's "your body" and "your choice" then if you want to keep it it's "your responsibility"That's fair ! Right....Beth? Not that anyone would want to be anywhere near that old fetid clam of yours. But keep dreaming doll! :bird:
If it's YOUR body and YOUR choice, why am I paying for it with MY taxes?
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Women's rights: The right to be a slut and kill the evidence.
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I don't wish to make you ill, but I need to highlight this post:
Daemonaquila (441 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
22. You sure as hell don't speak for me.
As a woman and a feminist, I say that abortion is of no more consequence than a root canal, except that after an abortion there's reason to celebrate. Just as many of us have absolutely no baggage about getting rid of an unwanted fetus.
It is not "a serious decision not to be taken lightly" - not unless a woman is an open or closeted pro-lifer. It is a safe, routine medical procedure like so many others a woman will have throughout her life. Having a baby? Yes, THAT is serious. It's at least 18 years serious, assuming a woman makes it through childbirth in one piece. An abortion is a walk in the park, far safer, and removes unwanted complications.
Viva abortion, +1000 for the OP.
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What an appalling example of authoritarian personalities exalting groupthink solidarity over human values.
:mental:
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Hoping Daemonaquila gets struck by a billion-volt lightning bolt some day. Sick bitch. :bird:
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002436802
And if you call them pro abortion, they howl like a stuck pig.
This is just sickening.
I just can't understand the mentality that the only thing that matters is the woman's choice. Just imagine the crying and wailing if men were given the power to decide whether the unborn live or die. :banghead:
-When was the last time that a doctor stuck a pair of scissors in your skull and sucked your brains out?
Maybe that's the problem, Beth is a failed abortion, that would explain her lack of anything even resembling an intellect.
Obviuosly not often enough! It could only make her smarter!
I don't wish to make you ill, but I need to highlight this post:
Damn! just damn! If I hadn't read that, I would never evn believed a DUmmie could be so calloused and nonchalant about a human life!! A root canal? Really? ****in' twat! (my apologizes to the our fair sisters here for the language, but, damn, just damn!!!)
edited to add!
Toots would throw somethin' threw my computer screen if she read this, and she would probably use the "C" word when she did it!!!!
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whoops!
“I never have believed that Jesus Christ would approve of abortions and that was one of the problems I had when I was president, having to uphold Roe v. Wade. And I did everything I could to minimize the need for abortions. I made it easy to adopt children, for instance, that were unwanted and also initiated the program called Women and Infant Children, or WIC program, that’s still in existence now. But except for the times when a mother’s life is in danger or when a pregnancy is caused by rape or incest I would certainly not or never have approved of any abortions…
“I’ve signed a public letter calling for the Democratic Party at the next convention to espouse my position on abortion which is to minimize the need, requirement for abortion and limit it only to women whose life are in danger or who are pregnant as a result of rape or incest. I think if the Democratic Party would adopt that policy that would be acceptable to a lot of people who are now estranged from our party because of the abortion issue.â€
http://hotair.com/archives/2012/03/29/audio-its-time-for-democrats-to-moderate-on-abortion-says-jimmy-carter/
I wonder what they think of ol' Jimmuh now? (he's still an anti-semitic prick and economic moron in my book.)
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How do you oppose abortion, then say you want to minimize it ? Lib logic again.