The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: bijou on September 03, 2008, 02:16:20 PM
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patriotvoice (762 posts) Tue Aug-19-08 08:56 PM
Original message
Eliminating poverty.
Advertisements [?]I don't profess to know "the" way, let alone "a" way. But, I've had some ideas that I've posted in several places that I wanted to share as their own thread. First, Naturyl recently posted a call for Guaranteed Minimum Income (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... ), to which I responded with some general arguments against. In response to another thread (What the heck do you do if you're a single parent on minimum wage? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... ), I elaborated more on one of my ideas presented first in Naturyl's thread. I present that idea, below. Your comments are appreciated.
We have been looking at this problem from the income side for over 40 years. Instead of looking at setting minimum incomes, I suggest we also look at setting maximum costs. In other words, there is:
* a maximum health care cost
* a maximum housing cost
* a maximum utilities cost
* a maximum grocery cost
* a tax on consumption (a VAT)
* a significant reduction in military spending
It begins with health care. Every single person pays a single monthly payment, based on age (younger pay more) and a health index (healthier pay more). Think of it as a "lifetime health savings plan" -- when you are young and able, you pay more for your own "rainy" days. This is collected at the federal level. The government oversees medical costs and pays the institutions the difference between actual cost and paid. Any surplus is paid into a medical research fund; any shortfall is paid from federal VAT revenue.
It then moves to housing. Everyone who opts for a HUD managed apartment, loft, or home pays a maximum amount each month based on housing grade. Larger units cost more. Lower density units cost more. Small, high density units cost the least. The majority of the payment goes toward owner equity in the unit; the balance goes to administrative overhead. Should you move out (or die), the government sends you (or your estate) a cheque for the equity you have invested in your home, plus interest earned on your money. This is managed at the federal level. The government oversees housing costs (as they do now for Sec. 8) and pays the housing owners the difference between actual cost and paid. Any surplus is paid into an housing improvement fund; any shortfall is paid from federal VAT revenue.
It then moves to utilities. Every single person pays a maximum monthly bill based on consumption tiers. Your consumption is measured and you are moved up or down in the tiers based on yearly consumption average. This is managed and collected at the state level. It is very similar to the current standard-rate utilities plan, where you pay a fixed amount each month regardless of your usage. The state government oversees utility costs (as they do now) and pays utility providers the difference between actual cost and paid. Any surplus is paid into an infrastructure improvement fund; any shortfall is paid from state VAT revenue.
It then moves to groceries. Every one pays a maximum amount for each unit (pound, ounce, etc) of raw ingredients and necessities: bread, milk, eggs, fruits, vegetables. Prices are set and managed at the state level. The state government oversees food costs and pays stores the difference between actual cost and paid. Any surplus is paid into infrastructure (roadway, railway) improvement and farm-subsidy funds; any shortfall is paid from state VAT revenue.
These four programs are mandatory. If there is a state or federal budget shortfall, these are cut last.
Now VAT. The basic idea is that the less "necessary" something is, the more you are taxed for it. Thus, raw ingredients (flour, sugar, etc) and necessities (bread, milk, fruits, vegetables, eggs) are not taxed. Bicycles and scooters are not taxed. School supplies are not taxed. Gasoline and fuel efficient vehicles are taxed moderately (4%). Electronics and gas guzzlers are taxed heavily (10%). Both state and federal will collect that percentage of tax: thus a Hummer H3 would have a 20% tax assessed (10% federal, 10% state).
Finally, the military. We cannot afford to continue operating bases in nearly every country in the world. Theaters of operations must be scaled back. Transfer soldiers from foreign posts to state-side active duty in the National or Coast Guard. Rollback DARPA budget 20%. Force defense contractors to operate within a nominal range of officer to employee pay grade (say 30:1), and force all net profit derived from government contracts be paid back to the federal government (eg, if 70% of the gross receipts derive from Uncle Same, then 70% of net profits must be paid back to Uncle Sam).
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=230x3572
Communism lives at DU. :mental:
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It begins with health care. Every single person pays a single monthly payment, based on age (younger pay more) and a health index (healthier pay more).
:wtf2:
Yeah, I'm sure that'll work out like a charm. :whatever:
Reading on.
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[ Communism lives at DU. :mental:
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This is why this country will once again find itself in a revolutionary state. ...and there will be blood. ::)
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And it really thinks these are good ideas. Really.
The level of stupid over there never ceases to amaze me. I always like to think the best of people but these folks just absolutely amaze me.
KC
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The level of stupid over there never ceases to amaze me. I always like to think the best of people but these folks just absolutely amaze me.
KC
Come on Tex, you've been reading DU long enough to know better. :-)
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A rose by any other name would still be communism. :banghead:
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The Hell of it is, to them "Poverty" is a moving target. No matter how high the individual standard of living might get to these morons the lowest end of it is still going to be "Impoverished." What they call poverty is regarded as 'comfortably middle class' or 'gentleman of leisure' in the Third World shitholes and 'Workers' paradises' they admire so much.
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This is why this country will once again find itself in a revolutionary state. ...and there will be blood. ::)
No country For Old men :evillaugh:
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Boy, are they in for a huge disappointment in the next 4 years.
.
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This is why this country will once again find itself in a revolutionary state. ...and there will be blood. ::)
No country For Old men :evillaugh:
Well, some old men got that way by being extremely proficient in taking out young men, and generally have a whole lot less left to live for now than a young guy.
:evillaugh:
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It begins with health care. Every single person pays a single monthly payment, based on age (younger pay more) and a health index (healthier pay more).
Ladies and gentlemen, a three word precis of why liberals should be allowed to run their mouths, but little else.
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I was overseeing a machine installation in 1988 in the good old USSR Russia and it was just as bad as they said.
Go by a huge Bread Store and see lots of shelves with NOTHING on them.
Go by a huge Vegetable Store and see lots of shelves with NOTHING on them.
The water was so polluted that we drank homemade vodka at lunch.
I had a German that interpreted for our team so not directly from the russian mouth but I trusted him. They all knew how screwed it was and wanted a capitalist system. I wish that I could put the DUmbasses back in time to what they think would be such a wonderful system.
It was a complete and utter failure. Those that refuse to learn from history vote democrat.
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Karl_Bonner_1982 (483 posts) Wed Sep-03-08 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
12. Why don't we do what Sweden does?
Budget Expenditures: $0.58 per $1 of GDP (58%!)
GDP growth: 2.7% annually
$39,636.64 per capita (compared to $41,889.59 per capita in the U.S.)
17.8% unemployment
Tax Freedom Day: August 8 (compared to April 30 in the U.S.)
http://www.nationmaster.com/index.php
Yeah. Sweden sounds awesome.
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Karl_Bonner_1982 (483 posts) Wed Sep-03-08 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
12. Why don't we do what Sweden does?
Budget Expenditures: $0.58 per $1 of GDP (58%!)
GDP growth: 2.7% annually
$39,636.64 per capita (compared to $41,889.59 per capita in the U.S.)
17.8% unemployment
Tax Freedom Day: August 8 (compared to April 30 in the U.S.)
http://www.nationmaster.com/index.php
Yeah. Sweden sounds awesome.
Dude, what you and I call Tax Freedom Day is what liberals call We're On Our Own Day. They won't rest until Tax Freedom Day is December 24.
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"Eliminating poverty" ...SHiiTE.......with a title like that I thought we were just $10 away from winning the war on poverty. I had already pulled a 10 spot outta my pocket before I started reading.
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Those that refuse to learn from history vote democrat.
That just about says it all.
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It begins with health care. Every single person pays a single monthly payment, based on age (younger pay more) and a health index (healthier pay more).
That little slip up is exactly why these leeches want socialized health care.
There is hardly a one of them that isn`t crying constantly about all their infirmities,needs for meds,mental issues and on and on.
They want an official medical excuse to remove themselves from any level of productive society.
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How the hell did this country survive 230 years without the government guaranteeing cradle-to-grave care?