The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Texacon on May 30, 2019, 10:37:31 AM
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https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212135808
dalton99a (36,698 posts)
When a Traffic Ticket Costs $13,000
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/27/opinion/drivers-license-suspension-fees.html
When a Traffic Ticket Costs $13,000
Suspending driver’s licenses for unpaid fees buries poor people in debt.
By Emily Reina Dindial and Ronald J. Lampard
May 27, 2019
For most people living in America, transportation is central to daily life. About 83 percent of Americans report that they regularly drive a car multiple times a week. Yet millions of drivers across the country have had their licenses suspended — taking away their ability to drive to work, school, the grocery store or the doctor — essentially because they are poor.
In 2014, Leah Jackson was ticketed for obstructing traffic in Ostego, Minn., after turning left at a red light. That kind of thing happens to many people. But, as Ms. Jackson explained to state lawmakers in 2018 testimony, she had just started a new job and hadn’t yet received a paycheck, so she couldn’t pay the $135 fine right away.
A few months later, she was pulled over, told her driver’s license was suspended for an unpaid ticket and cited for driving with a suspended license — a new $200 ticket. Her job responsibilities as a retail store manager required her to make bank runs and other deliveries, so she kept driving in order to keep her job. In less than a month, she received two more tickets for driving with a suspended license. After accounting for the additional tickets and the resulting increase in her monthly insurance premiums, her debt from the initial infraction spiraled into more than $13,000 over four and a half years.
The criminal justice system too often produces a self-perpetuating cycle, particularly for the poorest people, who can’t pay fines or hire lawyers to make charges go away. In 39 states, you can lose your driving privileges if you’re unable to pay a court fine or fee, for things as minor as a traffic violation. But a bipartisan effort is growing to end the fundamentally unjust practice of wealth-based suspensions.
So there's the story I referenced earlier. Poor little thing ignored her traffic ticket for her illegal turn and let it snowball ...
eggplant (3,298 posts)
9. I'm guessing because she is poor and money is tight.
The problem is a system that punishes those people who are living paycheck to paycheck.
WhiskeyGrinder (5,391 posts)
17. People are pulled over all the time for non-moving violations.
And sometimes, just for the heck of it.
ecstatic (24,543 posts)
14. It sucks that she was pulled over so many times.
I wish there were more federal laws to protect citizens from that type of over-policing/over-ticketing/fines. I almost always keep up with the flow of traffic, which is usually well above the speed limit, but I haven't been pulled over in close to 15 years (knock on wood). My county doesn't rely on traffic tickets to fund our cities (knock on wood).
Dem_4_Life (1,636 posts)
22. I have a friend going through a similar thing
He is lucky that he works for himself but he still needs to get places and currently cannot drive since he doesn't want to take the risk of getting arrested since driving with an expired license is an arrestable offence in Texas. So he does take Uber/Lyft along with using friends/family although this is a huge burden and has even cost him jobs that he cannot take because of transportation issues.
This all comes from an OLD ticket that was suppose to have been dismissed but there was an issue with this small town. This original ticket was total BS and he should have never got a ticket in the first place. He was already promised a new trial by the judge and is currently waiting on when that will be scheduled (which he has been waiting months). It is the small towns like this that count on making people lives a living hell to just plead guilty to something that they didn't do just to make money.
hunter (29,431 posts)
35. Oh bother. The first fine is nothing to an affluent person...
... but impossible for someone living close to the edge.
That's not justice.
hunter (29,431 posts)
34. In some nations traffic fines are proportional to income.
Finland’s system for calculating fines is relatively simple: It starts with an estimate of the amount of spending money a Finn has for one day, and then divides that by two—the resulting number is considered a reasonable amount of spending money to deprive the offender of. Then, based on the severity of the crime, the system has rules for how many days the offender must go without that money. Going about 15 mph over the speed limit gets you a multiplier of 12 days, and going 25 mph over carries a 22-day multiplier.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-home-of-the-103000-speeding-ticket/387484/
Ms. Jackson might have paid a fine of a few dollars.
Wealthy people have paid fines over $100,000.
No such thing as 'equal protection under the laws' if you have $$$ to spend. That amount varies greatly in DUmmie land.
KC
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A little fisking of the NYT's article:
In 2014, Leah Jackson was ticketed for obstructing traffic in Ostego, Minn., after turning left at a red light. 1 That kind of thing happens to many people. 2 But, as Ms. Jackson explained to state lawmakers in 2018 testimony, she had just started a new job and hadn’t yet received a paycheck 3, so she couldn’t pay the $135 fine right away.
A few months later, she was pulled over, told her driver’s license was suspended 4 for an unpaid ticket 5 and cited for driving with a suspended license 6 — a new $200 ticket. Her job responsibilities as a retail store manager required her to make bank runs and other deliveries, so she kept driving in order to keep her job 7. In less than a month, she received two more tickets for driving with a suspended license. After accounting for the additional tickets and the resulting increase in her monthly insurance premiums 8, her debt from the initial infraction spiraled into more than $13,000 over four and a half years.
1 Ms. Jackson broke the law, putting other people in danger. Bad choice!
2 I have never done that, nor, in nearly 50 years of driving, seen anyone do this.
3 So, she had no $$ from the paycheck at her previous job? Or had she been unemployed (or on social programs)? And, either way, didn't have the sense to obey traffic laws during financial difficulty? Bad choice!
4 She would have been notified of this, unless she had moved and not notified her DMV. And if she had received the notification, she had not done anything about it? Bad choice!
5 She had been at her job for several months and still had not paid her fine? Bad choice!
6 Ms. Jackson broke the law, knowing that, minimally, she had a long unpaid fine for a moving violation. Bad choice!
7 Ms. Jackson knowingly continued breaking the law. Bad choices!
8 Ms. Jackson had a moving violation. And then Ms. Jackson showed she was an even worse risk by continuing to violate the law. Of course her insurance company would increase her premium! Bad choices have consequences!
eggplant (3,298 posts)
9. I'm guessing because she is poor and money is tight.
The problem is a system that punishes those people who are living paycheck to paycheck.
No, DU-Moron, the "system" punishes lawbreakers and scofflaws!
WhiskeyGrinder (5,391 posts)
17. People are pulled over all the time for non-moving violations.
And sometimes, just for the heck of it.
No, DU-Moron, she made an illegal left turn, a moving violation!
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Something for DUers to think about in their defense of driving on a suspended license. This happened over the weekend.
Miami exotic dancer was driving drunk when she killed 3 teens, police say
An exotic dancer leaving a Miami nightclub was driving drunk when she plowed into three teenagers, killing all of them, early Saturday, according to police.
Mariam Coulibaly, 31, was charged with three counts of DUI manslaughter and three counts of vehicular manslaughter late Tuesday, according to the North Miami Police Department.
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Sources told WPLG she was at the strip club the night before the accident.
She was also driving on a suspended license, according to the Miami Herald.
"Our hearts go out to the loved ones of these young boys as they mourn this tragic loss," Danielle Levine Cava, Miami-Dade commissioner for District 8, said in a statement. "We can and must do better to ensure the safety of pedestrians."
https://abcnews.go.com/US/miami-exotic-dancer-driving-drunk-killed-teens-police/story?id=63341225
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Most court clerks I have dealt with back in the day (30 years ago) would allow you to break up the fine into monthly payments. One county let me do that for a $60 fine and let me defer the 1st payment for 30 days. I was in college with little to no money.
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Most court clerks I have dealt with back in the day (30 years ago) would allow you to break up the fine into monthly payments. One county let me do that for a $60 fine and let me defer the 1st payment for 30 days. I was in college with little to no money.
That's what I was going to say. They'll usually try to accommodate you.
Woman must have been an idiot.
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That's what I was going to say. They'll usually try to accommodate you.
Woman must have been an idiot.
primitives do defend their own
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Yet millions of drivers across the country have had their licenses suspended — taking away their ability to drive to work, school, the grocery store or the doctor — essentially because they are poor.
That's why God invented the BUS!!! :shortbus:
If you are poor you most likely can't really afford the financial burden of owning a car. That's why we have public transportation.
If you don't pay your tickets ,have a suspended license, have no insurance or have an un road worthy vehicle you don'r need to be on the road.
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Most court clerks I have dealt with back in the day (30 years ago) would allow you to break up the fine into monthly payments. One county let me do that for a $60 fine and let me defer the 1st payment for 30 days. I was in college with little to no money.
That's what I was going to say. They'll usually try to accommodate you.
Woman must have been an idiot.
Her doing a whine & geeeeeez via the NYT inclines me to believe she's an entitled scofflaw, possibly with a large dollop of Victim-Sauce. I can sympathize with someone with simple bad luck, or even someone who made a few bad choices and takes responsibility for those choices. But someone like her who made dozens of bad choices and then plays victim? Less than zero sympathy. She's a scamster looking for another way to weasel out of being responsible for her own choices and actions.
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I know I'm taking a big chance and going out on a limb here, but maybe -- just maybe -- the primitive isn't giving us the whole story.
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I'm really surprised the DUmmies are sympathizing with her and not demanding she abandon her climate killing car in favor of a bus, train, bike or unicycle...
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Most court clerks I have dealt with back in the day (30 years ago) would allow you to break up the fine into monthly payments. One county let me do that for a $60 fine and let me defer the 1st payment for 30 days. I was in college with little to no money.
BINGO, Bouncy status confirmed by the perp and the reporter.
She should have just said "No spekey inglish." That would have had the ticket dropped, no fine, and probably some cash here in Kalifornia.
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Two things,
1. - Not having $135 in hand because you haven't been paid yet is one thing, blowing it off like it never happened for months on end is pretty much on her.
2. - It sounds like a large majority of that $13,000 is increased insurance premiums over 5 years, if her license was suspended all that time, I have no idea why she was even paying for insurance.
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She chose poorly at every turn. :-)
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Two things,
1. - Not having $135 in hand because you haven't been paid yet is one thing, blowing it off like it never happened for months on end is pretty much on her.
2. - It sounds like a large majority of that $13,000 is increased insurance premiums over 5 years, if her license was suspended all that time, I have no idea why she was even paying for insurance.
Car is probably still financed. If you're still paying you have to keep your insurance current whether you can drive it or not.
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Car is probably still financed. If you're still paying you have to keep your insurance current whether you can drive it or not.
And for registration.
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It is a repeat offender, not a one time offender.
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Once upon a time the law said, "an eye for an eye" so the rich couldn't buy their way out of trouble.
And servitude was a remedy for those who could not repay debts and fines.
But "progressives" came along and said that was too mean.
Welcome to Progress, assholes. It's everything you ever said you wanted.