primitives being hypocritical

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6490477

Oh my.

ensho  (1000+ posts)      Tue Sep-08-09 12:17 PM
Original message
 
More US wealthy opt to surrender their citizenship
 
http://www.wealth-bulletin.com/rich-life/rich-monitor/c... /

As offshore havens comply with transparency demands, a growing number of ultra-wealthy Americans are handing back their passports

Private client lawyers and relocation specialists are reporting a surge in wealthy Americans living abroad who are prepared to give up their citizenship to avoid the scrutiny of US tax authorities.

Although such a move means they have to pay an exit tax, lawyers say this is a price people have become more willing to pay this year, now the fall in asset values has reduced the size of the imposition.

-snip-

Because of this, many ultra-wealthy individuals who have chosen to become stateless now cruise outside coastal waters in their mega-yachts in the belief that if they stay on the move, tax authorities will not be able to catch up with them. One analyst who did not want to be named, has estimated the number of stateless tax evaders amounted to a few thousand.

This implies the quantity of money outside the grasp of global tax authorities could be trillions of dollars.

-snip-

(you will just love the following)

In the final months of the Bush administration, the US Government introduced a package of tax reforms that included an amendment to the exit tax on US citizens and long-term green card holders who expatriate the US.

The tax allows US citizens and permanent residents wanting to renounce citizenship or permanent residency to pay a one-off income tax on gains over $600,000 (€420,000). All assets beyond this amount are valued at mark-to-market.

The exit tax allows a clean break from the US tax system from the date of expatriation without imposing the previous 10-year period after expatriation where tax rules used to apply – another big incentive, say lawyers.

One of the other benefits of the amended exit tax is that a former US citizen who has expatriated will be able to travel to the US without his income becoming taxable. Under the previous exit tax this was not possible.

-snip-

St Kitts and Nevis is favoured for its perceived security, while Austria is one of the few European countries where it is possible to purchase citizenship.

Typically, it will cost $400,000 to secure a St Kitts and Nevis passport, whereas Austrian citizenship might run into several million euros.

damntexdem  (1000+ posts)        Tue Sep-08-09 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
 
1. I can only say "good riddance."

blueworld  (428 posts)      Tue Sep-08-09 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
 
9. Why are they allowed to come back & travel here?

I hope this Congress repeals that "amendment", else I foresee the bunch of greedy bass turds running home to "visit" when the foie gras hits the fan overseas. Then they sit it out here nice & comfy? No, they want to expat their money? Let them expat their hairy butts also. Only the Repugs could come up with a system that allows citizens to avoid their patriotic tax burden, screw their fellow citizens & yet enjoy almost every American value & luxury.

When the revolution starts, I promise to sober up

ShortnFiery  (1000+ posts)        Tue Sep-08-09 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
 
2. Good. Now LIMIT their stays in the USA. Let them enjoy Singapore, et.al., justice system.

Deja Q  (1000+ posts)        Tue Sep-08-09 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
 
6. That's right! China is known for executing spineless frauding spinners...
 
It's okay to make mistakes, but deliberately causing problems? That's a separate issue.

Deja Q  (1000+ posts)        Tue Sep-08-09 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
 
3. Swindlers and cowards, the lot of them. Despicable.

On the plus side, if it's really a plus and it isn't, they'll swindle in whatever country they move to.

Statistical  (1000+ posts)      Tue Sep-08-09 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
 
10. They generally don't move.*

Technically they do need to move for a couple years however it isn't that difficult to immigrate back to the US if you are willing to open a new business that employs people.

So
1) renounce US citizenship & pay exit tax
2) gain citizenship in foreign country w/ low or now income tax
3) apply to immigrate to US
3) immigrate to US on temporary VISA
4) gain permanent green card.

Best of both worlds.

They enjoy all the benefits of the United States however they no longer need to pay taxes of investments.

All the gain, none of the pain.

redqueen  (1000+ posts)        Tue Sep-08-09 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
 
11. That loophole needs to be closed quickly.

Deja Q  (1000+ posts)        Tue Sep-08-09 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
 
14. Seconded.

Wounded Bear (25 posts)      Tue Sep-08-09 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
 
4. Ah yes. Patriotism, Republican style.

ddeclue  (1000+ posts)        Tue Sep-08-09 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
 
5. Umm buh -bye and don't expect the Marines to save your ass..I hope the Swiss Army is up to the job..

Deep13  (1000+ posts)      Tue Sep-08-09 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
 
7. Leave your key and your assets first.

They shouldn't get to loot this country on their way out.

kenny blankenship (1000+ posts)      Tue Sep-08-09 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
 
8. St. Kitts eh? It was pretty easy to gin up a war against Grenada...

I heard there was a big Cuban base under construction on St. Kitts.

Romulox (1000+ posts)        Tue Sep-08-09 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
 
12. If I were rich enough, I'd do it too.

Deja Q  (1000+ posts)        Tue Sep-08-09 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
 
15. Where would you go? And will they coddle you there?

Romulox (1000+ posts)        Tue Sep-08-09 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
 
16. Europe is the place to be, if you can afford it. I'm not sure what you mean by "coddle"...

If not living in a corporatist empire in its death throws is "coddling", wellsir, coddle me up!

KatyMan  (808 posts)      Tue Sep-08-09 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
 
13. One nit to pick...

You can't renounce your US citizenship unless you serve in a foreign military in a war against the US, and even then I'm not so sure. You may have to be an officer in said army.

MattSh  (722 posts)      Wed Sep-09-09 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #13
 
20. No, not true.

You walk into a US Embassy overseas, fill out the paperwork, and wait for your response.

Generally, however, it will not be granted unless you have gained citizenship or residency somewhere else, and can prove it.

KatyMan  (808 posts)      Wed Sep-09-09 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #20
 
21. And conversely you can go in the next day and ask for it back and you'll have it. Citizenship in another country doesn't matter wrt US citizenship.

Rex (1000+ posts)      Tue Sep-08-09 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
 
17. Bunch of rich traitors, **** them I hope they get eaten by sharks.

Rich people who denounce American citizenship can go and **** themselves. Just goes to show how little integrity these wealthy morans have. At least we all know they will burn in Hell.

KamaAina  (1000+ posts)        Tue Sep-08-09 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
 
18. Why do they hate America so much?

TransitJohn  (1000+ posts)        Wed Sep-09-09 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #18
 
22. They don't hate America, they just love their money more.

It's sad, really.

Matariki  (1000+ posts)        Tue Sep-08-09 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
 
19. Guess it's better to live nowhere, grasping all one's gold than be part of a community if it means paying any taxes

Johonny  (1000+ posts)        Wed Sep-09-09 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #19
 
23. until you get ill I imagine then it's off to the GREATEST health care system you can buy. Screw the leaches of society

[Rebel]

Good God. Hypocrisy isn't a strong enough word.

[thundley4]

The DUmmies don't realize that when these uber wealthy give up their citizenship, they also relieve themselves of the tax burden .  That money will have to come from somewhere else, most likely from lower tax brackets.  

[USA4ME]

With liberals, you have the freedom to be a slave.

U.S. citizens, unlike citizens of almost every other country in the world, are taxed on the basis of their citizenship, not their residence.  They can complain all they want, but I see nothing wrong with someone wanting to change their citizenship from one country to another and taking their possessions with them.  And there shouldn't be an "exit tax" at all.  I can't even see how that would be Constitutional since the right to expatriate is fundamental in American law.  Guarantee you a bunch of greedy Dems had that placed on the books.

If anything, it's very likely that this exit tax will inspire wealthy non-citizen residents to leave the U.S.  Not to mention, it will discourage successful foreigners from taking up residence in the U.S. at all.  The Dems want to keep the poor perpetually in poverty in order to maintain control over them and sucker them into voting for them.  What better way than to keep successful people from demonstrating that the American Dream is actually possible.

.

[DumbAss Tanker]

With liberals, you have the freedom to be a slave.

U.S. citizens, unlike citizens of almost every other country in the world, are taxed on the basis of their citizenship, not their residence.  They can complain all they want, but I see nothing wrong with someone wanting to change their citizenship from one country to another and taking their possessions with them.  And there shouldn't be an "exit tax" at all.  I can't even see how that would be Constitutional since the right to expatriate is fundamental in American law.  Guarantee you a bunch of greedy Dems had that placed on the books.

If anything, it's very likely that this exit tax will inspire wealthy non-citizen residents to leave the U.S.  Not to mention, it will discourage successful foreigners from taking up residence in the U.S. at all.  The Dems want to keep the poor perpetually in poverty in order to maintain control over them and sucker them into voting for them.  What better way than to keep successful people from demonstrating that the American Dream is actually possible.

.

I'm not familiar with it, but it seems to me that it would be meaningless unless the person returned to our shores on a visit after gaining citizenship elsewhere.  Once he, or she, had citizenship in another country and no longer had identifiable assets in the US, it would seem the expat could just tell the IRS to crap in one hand and demand in the other, and see which one gets full first.  To take that tack, of course, the expat would have to be of a mind to leave and never look back.

[USA4ME]

I'm not familiar with it, but it seems to me that it would be meaningless unless the person returned to our shores on a visit after gaining citizenship elsewhere.  Once he, or she, had citizenship in another country and no longer had identifiable assets in the US, it would seem the expat could just tell the IRS to crap in one hand and demand in the other, and see which one gets full first.  To take that tack, of course, the expat would have to be of a mind to leave and never look back.

I would agree.  Once you've established citizenship elsewhere, the USA has no claim to your income except for any portion of which was gained here in the USA.  That you were a former citizen that changed citizenry should have no bearing on your ability to re-enter the country to either visit or to work as long as you comply to the laws that all foreign citizens must comply.  IOWs, that you left should never be held over your head.

.

[DumbAss Tanker]

I would agree.  Once you've established citizenship elsewhere, the USA has no claim to your income expect for any portion of which was gained here in the USA.  That you were a former citizen that changed citizenry should have no bearing on your ability to re-enter the country to either visit or to work as long as you comply to the laws that all foreign citizens must comply.  IOWs, that you left should never be held over your head.

Well, that part wouldn't fly, which is why I say you'd have to leave and never return if you defied the exit tax.  If you ever step back in the US, you WOULD be subject to personal jurisdiction in US courts for anything you ever did here (Subject to statutes of limitations, which don't start running on taxes until you declare the income).  The new foreign citizenship does not confer any kind of immunity for past or present deeds contrary to US law on you, diplomatic immunity only applies to credentialed foreign diplomats, not foreign citizens. 

[USA4ME]

Well, that part wouldn't fly, which is why I say you'd have to leave and never return if you defied the exit tax. 

OK, I see the confusion.  This answer really needs to be addressed to your intitial post to me on this topic.

I'm not talking about defying the exit tax.  That idea never even entered what I was talking about.  I did say I thought it was probably unconstitutional and, apart from that observation, pointed out the unintended consequenses of having such a tax.

.

[thundley4]

Well, that part wouldn't fly, which is why I say you'd have to leave and never return if you defied the exit tax.  If you ever step back in the US, you WOULD be subject to personal jurisdiction in US courts for anything you ever did here (Subject to statutes of limitations, which don't start running on taxes until you declare the income).  The new foreign citizenship does not confer any kind of immunity for past or present deeds contrary to US law on you, diplomatic immunity only applies to credentialed foreign diplomats, not foreign citizens. 

Not too mention that one of the 0Bama administrations use of rendition was to kidnap a foreign citizen and bring him to the US on fraud charges. http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/afghanistan/la-na-rendition22-2009aug22,0,2566307.story

What's to stop him from doing this to former US citizens on tax evasion issues?

[AllosaursRus]

Well, that part wouldn't fly, which is why I say you'd have to leave and never return if you defied the exit tax.  If you ever step back in the US, you WOULD be subject to personal jurisdiction in US courts for anything you ever did here (Subject to statutes of limitations, which don't start running on taxes until you declare the income).  The new foreign citizenship does not confer any kind of immunity for past or present deeds contrary to US law on you, diplomatic immunity only applies to credentialed foreign diplomats, not foreign citizens. 

Me thinks, depending apon the country, one could "purchase" a diplomatic passport if one has the cash.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Me thinks, depending apon the country, one could "purchase" a diplomatic passport if one has the cash.

I expect you're right about that, but those are also the countries that won't lift a finger to help you if the US authorities decide it's a sham and throw your ass in jail anyway.