My Sexual harrassment bouncy by Raven

[zeitgeist]

My Sexual harrassment bouncy by Raven

Lots of familiar posters show up to weigh in on this one.

 

Raven  (1000+ posts)      Mon Nov-07-11 06:00 PM
Original message
My sexual harrassment story and what I did with it.
 When I was in grad school in the late '60's, I was required to take a statistics course which was a prerequisite to getting my Masters Degree. I was struggling in it but managing to get by. At the end of the course the Professor asked me to stay behind after class and told me that he was very concerned that I was going to flunk the course and that I could be assured I'd pass it if I spent the weekend with him at his house "getting tutored." I was 23 years old, a graduate of a woman's college and I had no experience with this whatsoever. I was stunned.

I somehow managed to get out of the classroom and the next day made an appointment to see my Dean. I recounted what had happened and the Dean told me that I was the 4th in a line of women who had complained about this man. He was terminated from the University.

I passed the Statistics course, barely.

I then went on with my life, got married, had a kid, went to law school...never thought about that awful incident again.

The whole thing literally came rushing back to me during the Anita Hill testimony...the whole sickening, nasty thing. And when it came back, it made me physically sick.

I have enormous respect for the woman today who stood up before the world and dredged up what are probably some of the most sickening memories of her life...memories of being a victem of a powerful man in the most basic way any woman can be victemized.
 

seabeyond  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-07-11 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. some on du seem to be saying that since you did not prosecute, it did not
 Edited on Mon Nov-07-11 06:05 PM by seabeyond
happen.
all you did was address it to higher ups.

or maybe the man did not know it was harassment, just wanted to ask you out. you know, a confused man

that being said

good for you having the courage to speak up at the time.
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

 Raven  (1000+ posts)      Mon Nov-07-11 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I still wonder what would have happened if I had been the first
 woman to complain.
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

notadmblnd (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-07-11 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. I've never considered it harassment if a guy made an comment to me in regards to sex.
 I do consider it harassment if I ask him to stop and he continues to do it. As far as touching/groping without being invited; I consider that assault.
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

seabeyond  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-07-11 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. he was whorin her. not with money, but with grades. **** me and you get a pay back
 you dont consider that harassment?
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

redqueen  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-07-11 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I have to wonder how many people would agree...
 that being solicited for sex is not a form of harassment. Especially women.

*sigh*
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 WingDinger  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-07-11 06:17 PM

Response to Reply #1
9. I hope that strawman is not meant for me. 
 She said NO. In this instance, he accosted/assaulted her. Never can that be tolerated. And the yank on her hair to position her, is downright hostile. He wanted service. That should disqualify him instantly for pres. That he equated her service with a job offer, makes him a sexual predator.

BUT, saying NO, is still a critical part of dealing with sexual harrassment. 
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

seabeyond  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-07-11 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. i am glad you clarified that. but i dont know that it had anything to do with you. just what i
 have been reading last couple days. as i said in the post above, wasnt just asking a gal out.... was whorin her. i pay (with grades) you play.

i have not just read this here. i have read on cnn, and there boards. seems to be the common theme. harassment is only when it isnt wanted.
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

Warpy  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-07-11 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Addressing it to higher ups is sufficient if they do something to remedy the problem
 and that something can be anything from convincing the attacker that one more report will result in his termination and acting on it to firing him on the spot.

Charges need to be pressed only when the higher ups protect the attacker and the victim suffers a loss of income or prospects because of it.

What crossed the line with Cain is that he tied the fourth accuser's job prospects to her willingness to service him sexually. Had it just been a tacky pass it wouldn't have crossed the line. Threatening her potential livelihood did.
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

seabeyond  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-07-11 06:40 PM
Original message
so, in your book a woman/girl does not get any pass if nothing is done and she chooses
 to not do a he dais/she said? she has done nothing. not a god damn thing, but if she is not willing to face the humiliation and trashing, she is at fault?

i know why women dont say anything. whether it be harassment, assault, battery or rape. 
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

 Nye Bevan  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-07-11 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. What a disgusting creep (nt)
 
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

spanone  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-07-11 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. k&r..
 
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

mike_c  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-07-11 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. I was once a teaching assistant for that guy....
 Well, given the timing, in the early 1990s, probably not THAT guy but another one that sounds similar. He was married, yet preyed on undergrads and graduate students alike. When I knew him he was in his SIXTIES and still at it-- my ex was one of his victims (made TAing his class kind of interesting, although of course she and I were not involved at the time). I never understood the attraction-- sure, female college students are mostly young, many are attractive and single, but the power dynamics make any real relationship very difficult. I can't imagine that simple sexual desire is sufficient to explain it either-- the complications alone would likely overwhelm any sense of satisfaction, not to mention the knowledge that she isn't sleeping with your fat old ass because she wants to. All in all masturbation sounds like a whole lot more fun.
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

Raven  (1000+ posts)      Mon Nov-07-11 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I think it's all about power. Look at Cain's response to that woman's
 objection: "You want a job, don't you?"
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

frazzled  (1000+ posts)      Mon Nov-07-11 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. When I was in graduate school ...
 I had an interesting experience. I was all of about 26 and had my first appointment to teach an undergraduate course. I had to set up weekly office hours for the students. The chairman of my department called me into his office and explained to me that when male students came to my office, I was required to keep the door open.

I was stunned, because it never occurred to me that a young (and at that time fairly newly married) woman would be considered a threat to young undergraduate males. It seemed ridiculous to me at the time. It probably wasn't. It was a safeguard (to protect me from accusations as much as the students). I only hope the male faculty members were given the same rule.
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

Raven  (1000+ posts)      Mon Nov-07-11 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Interesting point. Women can be predators too. My first advice to
 Will when he took a teaching job at a girl's school was to keep the door open.   
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

Siwsan (364 posts)      Mon Nov-07-11 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
12. I was in the Navy
 Harassment was almost a daily issue. Reporting it did absolutely no good. It was one of the reasons I decided not to re enlist.
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

Gregorian  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-07-11 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. As a male I had something similar happen
 I went to some kind of eagle scout reunion a few years after high school. It was held by the scoutmaster of the troop I had been in as a kid. He's a wealthy single man. Somehow we ended up at his house. I had an inkling that he liked me, as well as other guys in boy scouts. He began to play a game whereby I had to do something I really didn't want to do in order to learn how to commit myself. I was floundering around trying to find work, and really wanted his help. Without saying explicitly what he was up to, he made it very clear. I wasn't playing around with just anyone. This man has recently run for attorney general of California. I doubt he would like the things he has done, and tried to do, to come out.

He was absolutely amazing as a leader in that troop, as odd as it may sound. But this showed me another side that was pretty shady.

I didn't have anything to lose in this interaction like you did. But it's still quite unnerving.
 
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

Texasgal  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-07-11 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
14. The summer before college
 I worked for a rather large luxury hotel chain. 1988. I was 19 years old.

It was a new hotel, so I was part of the training crew. I was in room service.

The food and beverage manager was a jerk. We were in training ( the hotel had not opened to guests yet ) so the managers and other higher ups were staying in the hotel to give us all a "trial" run before it opened to guests. He was constantly calling me baby and cutie... etc. I was not a prude but I was very uncomfortable with his pet names he had for me. I was the only girl on room service, the rest were guys... and he was very rude and combative with the male staff. Screaming expletives, calling them "pussies" etc.

One evening during our training I was called to deliver wine bottle service to his room. He answered the door in nothing but a towel. He told me that this was how some guests would act so I needed to now how to encounter them. As I chilled the wine glass and went about my steps of wine service he removed his towel. he stood before me naked and told me to join him for some conversation, and some wine. Shocked, I turned right on my heal and left. I did not say anything. I just turned around, opened up the suite door and left. I found myself RUNNING down the foyer.

When I returned to the kitchen, I sobbed. Told one of my co-workers what happened and I left. The very next day I called the guest services manager and told him what happened. He advised me not to return. I guess I had quit. One week later I went to collect my paycheck. They fought with me over how many stupid ****ing jackets I had been issued. I had TWO. Which were returned, they said the B&A manager said i had THREE and I could not have my pay check until all the uniforms had been returned. I was LIVID by then.

I tried calling anyone and everyone to tell them what had happened to me. You know what? No one gave a shit. The "higher ups" listened to my story and said "thank you for calling" They finally released my paycheck but that was it. I haven't thought of this story in years. Had I known just a bit better about life and other things I would have went to the police.

I too am extremely proud of this Woman today. I am not so sure that I could do that today if pressed to do so.
 
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

Raven  (1000+ posts)      Mon Nov-07-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Wow. At least I got some satisfaction. Interesting, isn't it , how these
 things never leave you...no matter how many years go by.
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

redqueen  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-07-11 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
19. It's good that you had the strength to do something about it.
 Sadly, many women are raised in households which back up the idea that women are there to serve men's 'needs'. Such women would be much less likely to report such behaviors.

I find it disappointing and disturbing that those women are so often brushed aside, because they 'should have dealt with it'. 
 

After all this one might think our hero Wee Willy is wondering "Who's my daddy". 

[NHSparky]

Statistics as a grad student?  What a worthless ****ing degree she must have had.  IIRC, I took that as a sophomore--AFTER a full year of Calculus.

Then again, her lack of employability since might have had something to do with her getting shitcanned from her no-show, no-work, no-nothing job in Rindge.

[ChuckJ]

I'd probably believe this if it came from somewhere other than the DUmp. Some professors can do some strange things.

I know that my first college math class, calc or trig (I forget which), was taught by a phd who was actually a physics professor. He claimed the math department was short-handed so he had gotten drafted to teach the class. The first day of class he announced that he was also the intramural girls volleyball coach and asked if any of the females played volleyball. Several people pointed to a hot blonde. He asked if she played. She said she did. He asked if she'd be willing to join the team. She said she would if he'd pass her. He told her that sounded good to him. I don't know if she joined the team or passed the class. I just found it strange.

[shadeaux]

 

Raven ??????   Please.  If she looks anything like her kid I highly doubt any man hit on her.  More like she offered and he turned it down.

If you carry pepper spray and scream, no one will bother you. 

[NHSparky]

Oh, and Raven--another thing for you and the DUmmies to consider when trolling for DUmp cred:

You were at a UNIVERSITY.  You know, bastion of liberalism and all that, particularly in the late 60's.  Speaks volumes about liberalism that a supposedly "progressive", "liberal", (or whatever word for commie you used back then) would solicit someone like you for a piece of ass, especially considering you probably were the wingman when hanging out with Hillary back in the day.

And if you don't know what a "wingman" is, nadin it.

[shadeaux]

 

[zeitgeist]

Statistics as a grad student?  What a worthless ****ing degree she must have had.  IIRC, I took that as a sophomore--AFTER a full year of Calculus.

Then again, her lack of employability since might have had something to do with her getting shitcanned from her no-show, no-work, no-nothing job in Rindge.

I thought she had a law degree for some reason.   But you are right, I took stat as an undergraduate.  I must confess I really didn't want to take it at the time; however, it turned out to be one of my favorite courses, and, one which really paid off later in the real world.

[BattleHymn]

My wife has to put up with many comments at her work every day from customers.  Do I like it?  Nope.  Can I stop any of them?  Nope again.  I guess that is her punishment for being attractive. 

Most of the women I've seen at the DUmp were beat with the ugly stick, hard.  Sexual harassment for them is kind of like Halley's Comet- nearly a once in a lifetime event.   

[thundley4]

My wife has to put up with many comments at her work every day from customers.  Do I like it?  Nope.  Can I stop any of them?  Nope again.  I guess that is her punishment for being attractive. 

I was waiting for you to say that she worked at a strip club.    j/k

[BattleHymn]

I was waiting for you to say that she worked at a strip club.    j/k

She's too high class for that; but then again, she did marry me.   

[jukin]

To me this sounds like a simple business arrangement but I doubt that it happened(s) to any of the DUmp females. I've seen the picture threads. I don't think that sexual harassment happens to the fugly but I could be wrong.

We are going to need a new term for made up recovered sexual harassment charges over at the DUmp.

[zeitgeist]

Now I must wonder if Will took this advice 

Raven  (1000+ posts)      Mon Nov-07-11 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Interesting point. Women can be predators too. My first advice to
 Will when he took a teaching job at a girl's school was to keep the door open.   
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

Then too one wonders what her next advice was?  Deny, deny deny?

[Texacon]

How about the other side of the coin?

I was a manager for a company and had a very attractive secretary who was always late to work and missed several days during the year.  One day she told me she had some family business the next day and would be late (as usual) but the reason she gave was a good one so I approved her coming in late.  I told her I had an appointment at 10:30 am and it would take me about 30 minutes for me to get to the appointment so she HAD to be there no later than 10:00 and she said 'no problem.'

The next day she didn't show up at 10:00 as promised and while I was waiting for her to come in her sister called and asked to talk to her.  I said she wasn't at the office and she asked me where she was.  I said 'you don't know?'  She said 'should I?'

Now this family affair she asked off for was supposed to be for her WHOLE family.  Immediate family.  

I didn't tell the sister anything about the reason her sister was off but hung up the phone.  I locked the office, turned on the answering machine and left for my appointment.

When my secretary got to the office she called me.  It was about 10:45.  I gave her the dressing down she deserved and said I would talk to her some more when I got back to the office.

When I got back to the office in the afternoon the door was locked and as I walked in I noticed all her 'stuff' was gone.  She had walked out.  Quit.  Wouldn't return phone calls.

We hired a new secretary.  

2 months later my regional manager came in to my office unexpectedly and told me 'well, you're clear.'  I had no idea what the hell he was talking about so I asked him.

He told me that for the last 2 months they had been investigating me for sexual harassment!  They found nothing.  They couldn't find anyone that would say I had sexually harassed them or anyone who had seen me sexually harass my secretary.  As a matter of fact my other employees told them that if there was any sexual harassment going on it was from her to me.

There you have it.  I was falsely accused of harassing a woman and cleared and I never even knew until it was all over.

After it was all over I talked to my other employees and they laughed about it.  They all said that my secretary was hot after me and it was funny because I never saw it but they all did.  When they heard that she had accused me they thought it was hilarious.

The DUmmies have nothing.  Until they have some proof or Herman Cain actually admits it I ain't buying it.

KC

[Evil_Conservative]

If any of you ever run for President, or any other type of official office, I will come out to the media and claim sexual harassment from all the "This post is worthless without pics" and other such comments.  Just an FYI.  I want my $30,000, yo!

[GOBUCKS]

If any of you ever run for President, or any other type of official office, I will come out to the media and claim sexual harassment from all the "This post is worthless without pics" and other such comments. 

Wait! What pictures? This post is worthless without pics.

[Evil_Conservative]

My wife has to put up with many comments at her work every day from customers.  Do I like it?  Nope.  Can I stop any of them?  Nope again.  I guess that is her punishment for being attractive. 

Most of the women I've seen at the DUmp were beat with the ugly stick, hard.  Sexual harassment for them is kind of like Halley's Comet- nearly a once in a lifetime event.   

It's really creepy when it's the 70 year old men hitting on you.  Those were the most awkward moments ever. 

[Ballygrl]

My wife has to put up with many comments at her work every day from customers.  Do I like it?  Nope.  Can I stop any of them?  Nope again.  I guess that is her punishment for being attractive. 

Most of the women I've seen at the DUmp were beat with the ugly stick, hard.  Sexual harassment for them is kind of like Halley's Comet- nearly a once in a lifetime event.

I don't want to sound mean, but your post made me think of this. For some reason many homely women subscribe to regressive ideology, and I have to wonder if growing up they were so angry that men didn't pay attention to them, and the 1 or 2 times when they were adults and a man came onto them, instead of being flattered they get angry because they revert back to their teen years and being angry at being ignored.

[Chris_]

It's really creepy when it's the 70 year old men hitting on you.  Those were the most awkward moments ever. 

They just want to see if their new Viagra prescription works.

[Evil_Conservative]

They just want to see if their new Viagra prescription works.

Eww.

[GOBUCKS]

I don't want to sound mean, but your post made me think of this. For some reason many homely women subscribe to regressive ideology, and I have to wonder if growing up they were so angry that men didn't pay attention to them, and the 1 or 2 times when they were adults and a man came onto them, instead of being flattered they get angry because they revert back to their teen years and being angry at being ignored.

Rush once said the purpose of "women's liberation" was to give ugly women access to the mainstream.

[Ballygrl]

Rush once said the purpose of "women's liberation" was to give ugly women access to the mainstream.

Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society

[Karin]

I didn't read all of their boring SH stories, trying to outdo each other, I lost interest.  My heart does not bleed for you Raven.  As someone else pointed out, this was the swinging 60's.  Free love and all that.  Everybody slept with their professor. 

I passed the Statistics course, barely.

  Stats was a breeze.  I aced it.   

[GOBUCKS]

Stats was a breeze.  I aced it.

Sounds like she could have, too.

[BlueStateSaint]

I didn't read all of their boring SH stories, trying to outdo each other, I lost interest.  My heart does not bleed for you Raven.  As someone else pointed out, this was the swinging 60's.  Free love and all that.  Everybody slept with their professor. 
  Stats was a breeze.  I aced it.   

I called it "Sadistics" for a reason.

[DumbAss Tanker]

From the way things turned out, it looks like she would have been better off taking him up on the offer.