Anti-war lawmakers worry over plan for Afghanistan (no obamagasm for YOU!)

[Wretched Excess]

he never really believed in the surge in afghanistan.  he just needed to find a war that he didn't oppose, so mccain couldn't
call him a "cut and run pacifist".  so now he's stuck with a bad policy.  I don't see how the surge could work in afghanistan.
it's a pile of rocks.  you need a population that at least knows what order and a central government look like if they should
see it.

afghanistan is a pile of rocks ruled over by a bunch of minor war chiefs. 

Anti-war lawmakers worry over plan for Afghanistan

WASHINGTON – After campaigning on the promise to end one war, President Barack Obama is preparing to escalate another.

Obama's dual stance on the two wars is not lost on congressional Democrats, many of whom also ran on anti-war platforms. In coming weeks, they expect to have to consider tens of billions of dollars needed for combat, including a major buildup of troops in Afghanistan.

While increasing the military's focus in Afghanistan was anticipated — it was a cornerstone of Obama's campaign — many Democrats acknowledged in recent interviews that they are skittish about sending more troops, even in small numbers.

The concern, they say, is that the military could become further entrenched in an unwinnable war on their watch.

"Before I support any more troops to Afghanistan, I want to see a strategy that includes an exit plan," said Rep. Jim McGovern, a Massachusetts liberal who at one point wanted to cut off money for the Iraq war.

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[thundley4]

0Bama is going to find out the hard way like Russia did with Afghanistan.  You can't beat them at their own game in their own country. Guerrilla warfare in the deserts and mountains is quite different than trying to restore/maintain order in cities and towns like Iraq.

 I think Bush stumbled into the correct strategy in Afghanistan.  Get in , knock the sh*t out of them, get another government installed, then get out except for leaving smaller groups to deal with the insurgents.  The lefties were all too willing to call Iraq a quagmire, but I fear the Big Zero is going to show the true meaning of the word if he follows through with his talk of increasing troops in Afghanistan.

[DumbAss Tanker]

The military talent has told him an Iraqi-style surge will not produce results, though they do want more force structure to hang onto the gains they've made and try to move it all forward.  The biggest problem is the lack of even local government above a warlord level combined with an almost-invulnerable stronghold in Waziristan for the opposing forces.  The warlords are not receptive to the idea of ironclad border control and patrollling, since smuggling contraband back and forth across that 'Border', ranging from carpets to opium, is their economic lifeblood.  Therefore, such local government as there is has a stronger interest in keeping the border porous than they do in keeping the Taliban in check.  The only thing that can turn it around is proving to them that allegience to a central government is more strongly in their interests than having access to their traditional smuggling routes.
The main problems with this are (1) the central government is weak and ineffective, largely incompetent really even when it's not being corrupt, so the benefits of allegience to it are miniscule compared to the threat of Taliban retribution  (2) the central government is far away and the Taliban is just over the mountain in the Pakistani 'tribal areas,' and (3) a lot of the locals in SW Afghanistan don't exactly have a huge religious or ideological problem with the Taliban in the first place, and (4) there's really nothing positive we can offer them that would make up for what they lose with a tight border.

[Wretched Excess]

I think one point that has to be remembered is that it's such a prehistoric place, and full of atavistic cartoon characters, that there is no sense in trying to install a government.  all you have to worry about is keeping as many taliban and al quada dead as you possibly can.

you can't create a stable democracy over a pile of rocks.