campaign thread for the Top DUmmies of 2013

[franksolich]

Welcome to the first of two campaign-and-voting threads for the Top DUmmies of 2013!

The second thread, for those who wish to express their sentiments about primitives, but only to a select audience, is at: http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,92629.0.html

Voting will be open from breakfast-time Sunday morning, December 8, through supper-time Saturday evening, December 14.

This thread, and the other one, will be “locked” to comments until the final ballot is appended Sunday morning.  After that, both threads are wide open, receptive for comments.

All voting is done by secret ballot, and one may do so by sending one’s votes to Ralph Wiggum here, or to him at: ralphwiggumcave@outlook.com  Mr. Wiggum counts the votes and keeps them confidential; franksolich simply writes the awards, nothing more.

The recommended way of voting is via personal message to Mr. Wiggum here on conservativecave.

One is free to reveal how one has voted, in either of the two threads, but remember, those comments aren’t votes; they’re just comments.  Please vote first, and then comment away all one wants.

Anyone in the whole wide world with an e-mail address is eligible to vote, but Mr. Wiggum retains the right to determine if a particular voter is bona fide or malicious, and has the right to reject any ballots he believes are not sincere.

- - - - - - - - - -

After one has voted, one can change one’s votes any time up until the polls close Saturday evening, but when changing votes, please advise Mr. Wiggum it’s a change in votes, not an original ballot.  He’s going to double-check anyway, but it’s a courtesy.

- - - - - - - - - -

One may vote for ten primitives for Top DUmmie of 2013.

Votes are valuable; please don’t not use them, and vote for ten, not one or three or six or something.

One may vote for one each for each of the special awards; the ballot’s pretty much self-explanatory.

- - - - - - - - - -

Votes for the top five DUmmies ARE WEIGHTED.

When voting, one should rank his top five preferences, #1, #2, #3, #4, #5.

Mr. Wiggum will then assign 5 votes to one’s first choice, four to one’s second, three to one’s third, two to one’s fourth, and one to one’s fifth.

Then one should list five more primitives in no particular order; primitives whom one thinks should be Top DUmmies, but not quite as high as one’s first five choices.  Mr. Wiggum will then assign one-half vote to each of them.

The reason one’s top ten choices aren’t all weighted is because after about the first five, it gets murky, trying to decide if a primitive should be #6 or #8 or #10 or somewhere in between.

- - - - - - - - - -

Finally, I have to express my personal appreciation to Mr. Wiggum, who started the Top DUmmies back in 2005, but then time and circumstances gave the honor, the distinction, the joy, of writing the awards to me, franksolich.

Mr. Wiggum was not around to count the votes last year, during which time I learned what a nuisance, what a trouble, what a bother, it is.  I don’t want to count votes again, ever.  It’s a pain, and I’m very happy Mr. Wiggum is taking care of that end for me.

It’s really great, how two very different people can work so well together.  On one hand, we got a guy who’s a professional, who’s good with chicks, who oozes confidence and competence out of every pore, and on the other hand, we got another guy who’s loud and raucous and breaks things.

But it works.  Probably because neither of us are primitives.

[franksolich]

Suggestion:

Due to the length of the list of candidates running for Top DUmmies--although the ballot's been longer than this a couple of other times--rather than scanning the roster and selecting ten, do this:

First, think of your favorite primitives, then look at the list, to see if they're on it.

[franksolich]

If one is not sure the exact identity of a primitive--we do after all give them nicknames more sensible than their screen-names--this thread is where one should inquire; feel free to ask here before voting.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Top DUmmies
--vote for TEN, ranking your top FIVE choices:

1StrongBlackMan
Are_grits_groceries
BainsBane
Bennyboy
cali

CaliforniaPeggy
cbayer
Cherokee Progressive
DainBramaged
darkangel218

denninmi
dfk
DFW
Drale
Dreamer Tatum

Fire Walk With Me
fizzgig
fumesucker
gopiscrap
graham4anything

grasswire
Judi Lynn
kentuck
kpete
Lady Freedom Returns

Laelth
Link Speed
Locut0s
malaise
Manifestor_of_Light

mike_c
MineralMan
MrScorpio
nadinbrzezinski
NNN0LHI (the late grouchy old Don)

NYC_SKP
Omaha Steve
Fat Che's Little Brother
Octafish
onehandle

Pretzel_Warrior
ProSense
rsmith6621
sabrina 1
Scuba

seabeyond
SidDithers
Skinner
Skittles
Socialist_in_TN

Steve2470
stevenleser
Taverner
Th1onein
TheMastersNemesis

treestar
trumad
Warpy
WilliamPitt
William769

zappaman

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

the William Rivers Pitt award, the “Willie,” for the most-memorable primitive from any time since the founding of Skins’s island on January 20, 2001; primitives who’ve already won the Willie in the past are not eligible for nomination and election; it’s a one-time-only award.
--vote for ONE

Andy Stephenson
benburch
bobbolink
cali
demtenjeep/greenbriar
EFerrari/sfexpat2000
Omaha Steve
Redstone
Stinky the Clown/Husb2Sparkly
Tangerine LaBamba
Th1onein
undergroundpanther

the Steven Dawes award, the “Steve,” for the primitive who proved his own worst enemy during 2013; usually, this means a primitive who wallduded himself, getting himself fired from a job because of comments made on Skins’s island, but it may instead include other sorts of self-destructive behavior.
--vote for ONE

BainsBane
DainBramaged
Taverner
Th1onein

the Robyn McGrath award, the “Rob,” for the primitive who, simply put, one found funny during the past year, provoking the most merriment and mirth; a primitive who wishes to be seen as authoritative and credible, but just isn’t bright enough to cut it.
--vote for ONE

Atman
BainsBane
DainBramaged
denninmi
grasswire
Lady Freedom Returns
Locut0s
nadinbrzezinski
Fat Che's Little Brother
SidDithers
stevenleser
Taverner

the Nadin Abbott award, the “Nadin,” for the primitive who exhibited the most “I am God”-like characteristics during 2013; the primitive who was never wrong, always right.
--vote for ONE

BainsBane
DainBramaged
nadinbrzezinski
ProSense
stewert
TheMagistrate

the group award
--vote for ONE:

the anti-gun nuts
the bullies
the cooking and baking primitives
the exiles to OldElmTree
the gay mafia
the moles
the 0bamacare lemmings
the wish-for-a-dupe beggars

[franksolich]

Okay, I‘ll be first to vote, to show the recommended way.

This is what I personal-messaged Ralph Wiggum.

Ballots don‘t have to be this nicely-formatted, but please make it obvious what one‘s voting on.

- - - - - - - - - - -

Top DUmmies
1-nadinbrzezinski
2-DainBramaged
3-Taverner
4-BainsBane
5-NYC_SKP
cbayer
grasswire
mopinko
trumad
William769

the Willie
Redstone

the Steve
DainBramaged

the Rob
Atman

the Nadin
nadinbrzezinski

group
the moles, real and imagined

- - - - - - - - - -

Okay now, this isn’t a voting thread, as all votes are done via personal message or e-mail.  This is a campaign thread, and one can vote, and then change one’s votes, up until the polls close.

But my choices, I think, are pretty much engraved in granite.

Anyone’s free however to tell me if I’m wrong, and why I should change my mind.

[Tucker]

Did you make a mistake by selecting NYC_SKP as a top 5?

I well aware of who he is but he has not done anything of note. As far as I can tell, he's barely made a dent on the DUmmy radar.

I'm disappointed. You selections are usually more carefully thought out.

[franksolich]

Did you make a mistake by selecting NYC_SKP as a top 5?

I well aware of who he is but he has not done anything of note. As far as I can tell, he's barely made a dent on the DUmmy radar.

I'm disappointed. You selections are usually more carefully thought out.

Oh now.

Granted, Skippy was a PonP nearly all year long, a primitive of no prominence, a lumpenunterprimitiven, one of the faceless lynch mob, a DUmmie scarcely worth a second glance.....that is, until he complained about a minor trivial inconsquential little mistake I'd made five years ago, which abruptly caused me to stand up and take notice.

It was one of those instances where I had the potential to make 5,053 errors--this was back when Skins allowed the primitives to change their screen-names--but made only one.  One mistake out of 5,053.

One mistake out of 5,053; that's practically error-free.

Now, if it'd been my good pal Manny, the MannyGoldstein primitive, who noticed the error, rather than gloating, "ha ha, franksolich made a mistake, ha ha, these freepers are really stupid, ha ha," he would've said "wow, franksolich made only one mistake, when he could've made as many as 5,053; that's impressive, only one mistake out of 5,053 possible mistakes."

But of course, Manny knows how to win friends and influence people; Skippy doesn't.

So, yes, I will admit it was a grudge nomination, and this is a grudge vote.

- - - - - - - - - -

However, a good case otherwise can be made for selecting Skippy to the top ten; he's the classic enabler, the male version of the CalPig primitive.  He's always cheering other primitives on, in their pursuits of one disastrous course or another--Amber and walrus-face being the more-prominent examples, but he does it a lot--but like the CalPig primitive, that's all he does. 

Says some nice encouraging words, as if it's as good as sending cash or giving some other type of assistance.

And he imagines himself a very nice person, simply because he says nice things.

[Tucker]

I still don't buy it. Unlike DUmmies, I believe in the freedom for the right to vote for the nominee of your choice.*


*Even if it's a wasted vote.

I'll make my choices later today, after I give it some serious thought.

[franksolich]

I'll make my choices later today, after I give it some serious thought.

Oh now, give some thoughts to Skippy.

Skippy and the CalPig primitive are very much alike; they might as well be twins.

You remember the now-late wiley50 primitive, the worthless freeloading bum who was building an ark up in the mountains and forests of Tennessee, that he was hoping to float out to sea, escaping from America but at the same time collecting American social services?

The old guy who was addicted to marijuana and pain-killers?  The one who had a couple of dozen or so children by different women, scattered all over the country?  The one who worked under the table so as to not have his pay seized for overdue child-support?

His landlord in Tennessee finally kicked him off the property, keeping the half-built shell of the ark, and the wily primitive hoofed it to California.  He was hoping to get supported by an abandoned son of his, but really, he had no place to go. 

The CalPig primitive wished him luck; the usual nice words.

The wily primitive asked the CalPig primitive, who lives in a palatial house with lots and lots of room, if he could shack up there a while. 

The CalPig primitive never responded.

Some months later, the wily primitive died, of exposure.

I always blamed his death on the CalPig primitive.  She had the means to help him, but didn't.  All she did was utter nice words, as if that was all he needed. 

[BattleHymn]

You know, I think you're right about the Skippy/Calpig thing.  I'm going to have to reconsider one of my votes.  I cannot ignore the similarities now. 

[franksolich]

You know, I think you're right about the Skippy/Calpig thing.  I'm going to have to reconsider one of my votes.  I cannot ignore the similarities now.

Now, Skippy has nowhere near the means that the CalPig primitive, who's loaded, does.

But it drives me nuts that he thinks he's such a nice person, because he says nice words.

<<<says nice words all the time, but doesn't think that makes a nice person.

[GOBUCKS]

Campaigning for grasswipe votes for the Rob.

Consider her in-depth investigation of Dear Andy's homicide:

 

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 01:20 AM
grasswire (38,600 posts)
44. I don't think RimJob had anything to do with it.

It was the toxic bunch who now hang out at a place called conservativecave.com. In particular, it was one freeper w/ user name franksolich.

[franksolich]

Campaigning for grasswipe votes for the Rob.

Consider her in-depth investigation of Dear Andy's homicide:

You know, actually it was addled Judy I was thinking about, when I wrote the standards for the Rob:

.....provoking the most merriment and mirth; a primitive who wishes to be seen as authoritative and credible, but just isn’t bright enough to cut it.

Of course, one must substitute "bright" with "mentally competent" in the case of the pie-and-jam primitive.

Really, she's very silly, and I'm surprised her guardians--her children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and adult great-great-grandchildren--haven't yet smashed her computer to pieces so she'd stop making herself look bad.

[Tucker]

Campaigning for grasswipe votes for the Rob.

Consider her in-depth investigation of Dear Andy's homicide:

 

That's a solid reason. What's holding her back is her lack of postings overall. She just isn't the same since she moved out of the attic.

[franksolich]

That's a solid reason. What's holding her back is her lack of postings overall. She just isn't the same since she moved out of the attic.

She used to be a lot more frequent; in fact, she was one of the top primitives in the cooking and baking forum.

But when dear old sweet Lu took over the forum, Lu decided that because she had the title, she didn't have to do any work in it; all she had to do was sit around like a regal queen bee while the drones started the topics and made the comments.

It had an obvious effect on grasswire--and other formerly prolific posters in the cooking and baking forum--who, when seeing Lu wasn't doing any work, thought, "well, why should I, if she's not?"

And hence the unhappy decline of that forum, once the most lively "small" forum on Skins's island, which provided the DUmpster with tons of comedy material.

[franksolich]

I wonder how poor addled grasswipe Judy Smith hoards. She's homeless, squatting in an abandoned bodega up there in the edge of Portland, Oregon.

She totters up and down the sidewalks, bundled in multiple overcoats summer and winter, tugging a little red wagon heaped with treasures she finds in the devil strip on trash pickup days. She also collects hair clippings in little medicine bottles.

Now in her early 70s, she still mutters about the pie shop that never was, her fantasy from nearly three years ago. http://www.oregonlive.com/milwaukie/index.ssf/2011/03/pieandjam_shop_to_open_along_the_trolley_trail_aid_local_music_programs.html

As comically addled as she is, she tries mightily to sound normal, clued-in, authoritative, resulting in hilarity that embarrasses her children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, great-great-grandchildren, and great-great-great grandchildren. (The Smith clan breeds like fruit flies.)

All that makes her a great candidate for the Rob McGrath Award.

One of the deals about never having seen many movies is that one tends to remember those movies one's seen, all of them.

I'm reminded of an old black-and-white "art" movie by Bertolt Brecht or Thomas Mann--I forget which one--where there's a deranged old woman walking among the dead on a battlefield during the Thirty Years' War, "Christians, awake!  The winter's gone!  The snows depart, the dead sleep on...."

But instead of that, I'm seeing multi-overcoated Judy pulling her little red wagon, droning "Free pies for the rich!  The poor gotta pay!" in reference of course to that she was going to give away free pie to well-paid governmental bureaucrats, but charge the poorer people.

[GOBUCKS]

I feel awful for having failed to nominate poor stupid rsmithnumbers for the "Rob McGrath" award.

Though I'd still vote for poor addled grasswipe Judy Smith, poor stupid rsmithnumbers deserved a nomination and consideration for the Rob.

[franksolich]

I feel awful for having failed to nominate poor stupid rsmithnumbers for the "Rob McGrath" award.

Though I'd still vote for poor addled grasswipe Judy Smith, poor stupid rsmithnumbers deserved a nomination and consideration for the Rob.

There were a few good ones who were overlooked.

But there's just so many.....like for the Willie, for example, the most memorable primitive.  I voted for Chief S itting Bull, the bird-smaking stoned red-faced primitive, because I honestly and sincerely believe the late Redstone was the Greatest Primitive, Ever.  And he hasn't been honored yet.

But at the same time, I was torn about poor stupid Beth, surely one of the most memorable primitives ever, too, and years and years overdue for an honor.  And she's the primitive who should've been the very first Top DUmmie, back in 2005.

But I had to go with Redstone this year, with hopes of going for Beth next year.

For those seeking more information--for voting purposes, of course--about both Chief S itting Bull and poor stupid Beth:

http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,92629.0.html

[Tucker]

Jugs has been peeking.

From the nomination thread:

http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,92730.msg1163203.html#msg1163203

Tucker
Hero Member
*****

Re: nominating thread for the Top DUmmies of 2013
« Reply #134 on: December 02, 2013, 09:59:11 am »
   
Skippy is hard to read at times. He's an ardent supporter of the 2nd Amendment. Him and jugs don't agree on much. Now that she's a host of the anti gun forum, he managed to find himself on their iggy list.

From this campfire today:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018528318

Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 4, 2013, 11:57 PM

Star Member BainsBane (20,936 posts)
6. Did you see

Last edited Wed Dec 4, 2013, 11:58 PM - Edit history (1)
that down under they insist we hate each other and that as soon as I "wrangled control" of the gun control group, I banned you?

Now that Skippy is swapping spit with jugs, he's off of my list.

[franksolich]

Jugs has been peeking.

Of course she's been peeking.  Which is okay.

I'm hoping she wins one of the top ten spots in the Top DUmmies of 2013, because if she does, I can write a whale of an award for her, a literary masterpiece that she'd be proud to print out, frame, and hang on the wall in her office.

[Tucker]

Of course she's been peeking.  Which is okay.

I'm hoping she wins one of the top ten spots in the Top DUmmies of 2013, because if she does, I can write a whale of an award for her, a literary masterpiece that she'd be proud to print out, frame, and hang on the wall in her office.

She'll get my support. After her top ten victory, my athletic supporter.

[franksolich]

Now that Skippy is swapping spit with jugs, he's off of my list.

Ah now, that's all the more the reason you should keep him on your list.

Skippy deserves the franksolich treatment.

<<<a nice guy, franksolich.

[Tucker]

Ah now, that's all the more the reason you should keep him on your list.

Skippy deserves the franksolich treatment.

<<<a nice guy, franksolich.

We'll see.

[franksolich]

We'll see.

Well now, I'm making a big deal about how I voted for primitives I want the most to write about.

That's not necessarily the best criteria when choosing candidates.

I urge all voters to vote their consciences, not to vote the way I did because it pleases me.

I'll live; I can write about primitives I don't want to write about.

[Tucker]

I urge all voters to vote their consciences, not to vote the way I did because it pleases me.

You've known me long enough to know that I can't be swayed.

I'm just saying I'll give it all some additional thought. There's room for those that deserve it most. Myself, like others I'm sure, selected a DUmmy just to give them a small sign of recognition, knowing that they no chance of winning. If they receive no votes after being nominated, that's fine. Just being nominated is what separates them from the total dreks, those that never have and never will see their name in print at CC.

We have 10 votes for top ten. I'll cast them wisely.

[GOBUCKS]

In case anyone forgets why nadin is really the only candidate for the "Nadin", from the vault here is one of her classic threads about the Japanese earthquake. Her arrogance is on a different plane from any other DUmmy, even the drunken Pitt. One thing that strikes me about it is how nearly all these 2011 nadinbullies are now gone:

nadinbrzezinski  Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Mar-16-11 10:09 PM
Original message
Ok I want you people to understand something right now

in a regular, every day quake, you got logistics issues... which translates into :

FOOD,
WATER
FUEL
MEDICAL SUPPLIES
TENTS.
DOGS
RESCUERS that can self maintain

yep the list familiar from many a quake and other disaster.

Here they also have people inside the exclusion zone. From a TRIAGE perspective it is not that people are afraid to go in there to get them. Just that going in will get more people killed... now or later... really does not matter.

As an Emergency Worker it gets to the point that you have to give up... and it might seem cruel... given thousands are still in the zone from what I can read... but this is the reality of it.

And typing this is hard, because these people LOOK healthy, can talk to you, and all that.

Radiation just adds all kinds of complications and if I were in charge of operations (which I am thankful I am not) after a similar event around oh San Onofre... yes I would have to write off people...

This is the way it is... cruel, cold yes... unfortunately the needs of the few do not override the needs of the many.. even if the few are a few thousand people.

Nor would I ask any crew member of mine to go in... with or without equipment. I would not ask that... either.

It goes without saying... NOBODY DESERVES THIS, but this is the very cold and bitchy reality.

Why I was hopping for these people, but as long as this goes on... yes somebody pretty high up has made that decision... and no, it has nothing to do with capitalism but all to do with TRIAGE. Oh and incidentally if I happened to be inside the exclusion zone... I pretty much expect to be left behind... that is the way it is.

leftstreet  Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Mar-16-11 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. What makes you think we didn't already understand this?

 

bobbolink  Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Mar-16-11 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. we plebes are hopelessly ignorant, and depend on mommy and daddy to set us straight.

Whisp  Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Mar-16-11 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I think the OP would save more lives if she went shopping for milk
and left us alone for 10 minutes. It's getting critical mass, where's the *******ed ledge.

anneboleyn  Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Mar-16-11 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
30. Amen, She posts these to "inform" us "ignorant" folks every time any event
happens which remotely justifies such a post. Never mind that others here at DU are M.D.s and nurses and have worked in the medical field for years. Or that the rest of the DU community understands the situation perfectly well. OP is convinced that there is a very high level of ignorance that she needs to address, again and again, with a strange sort of enthusiam, reminding us that many must die! (all caps, etc.)

After another iggy list threat:

Blue-Jay  Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Mar-16-11 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. By next week, you'll only be able to read your own posts.
Call me crazy, but I think you'll be OK with that.

Whisp  Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Mar-16-11 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #43
51. lol. and respond to them too.
I wonder if there will be a fight

Maru Kitteh  Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Mar-16-11 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #43
74. Blue-Jay dear, I don't know you, but I'd be inclined to say you are probably NOT the crazy one
on this thread.

nadinbrzezinski  Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Mar-16-11 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. It does, trust me all the triage I ever had to do was
let go a three year old (open skull fracture) who was still breathing when we got on scene and take care of her uncle... with a femur fracture.

But the logic is very nice on paper, a bitch to implement If people can leave on their own, they will be taken off... but who knows how much contamination they already have, gross and internal... so you may help them to die... that is the bitchy thing about radiation

demmiblue  Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Mar-16-11 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. No offense, but I think talking down to people is not the way to get your message heard. n/t

nadinbrzezinski  Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Mar-16-11 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
56. I just approached it from the cold ****ing reality
and it is one that sucks, major ass.

nadinbrzezinski  Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Mar-16-11 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #105
110. Actually if I wrote it in a nice way
people would still be going it is condescending and superior...

Some folks truly, cannot handle the truth. It is not about a national origin, they just can't

Brickbat  Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Mar-16-11 10:37 PM
Original message
NO!!! Learning cannot take place without arrogance, ahems, and bad grammar.

Codeine  Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Mar-16-11 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
83. It's all she knows.
Seriously, she can't utter a word without being condescending.
It's that simple.

leftstreet  Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Mar-16-11 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #63
73. DU isn't your personal blog, Twitter, or Facebook
You post authoritarian assertions, then beat the shit out of anyone who disagrees with you. Most members here don't do that. It's a discussion forum not a bully pulpit

nadinbrzezinski  Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Mar-16-11 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #98
129. actually I do not find it funny
but might be the amount of IGNORED... nor do I think this is a funny thing to post.. alas it is the reality.

So please tell me what is so funny about that damn reality? I would love to join in the guffaws.

Brickbat  Donating Member (1000+ posts)
Wed Mar-16-11 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
125. All right, look -- here's the deal.
I'm going to say this even thought I'm pretty sure you've got me on ignore. English is not your first language. You're not a native-born American. The phrase "OK I want you people to understand something right now" is something only a few people would utter, and those people would be:

1. An ineffective coach trying to give a pep talk to a bunch of half-assed players who don't give a shit.
2. A timid boss who suddenly tries to prove something some employees who generally get their work done well and on time.
3. A parent who has never had control of his/her children.
4. A principal in a John Hughes movie.

So pardon ****ing those of us whose hackles go up when you take this ****ing tone with us. You'd think after awhile you'd learn, or ask what the deal is, or check in with a language coach so people pick up what you're trying to put down. But if you're not going to, well, then, you bought the milk, you're going to have to drink it.