I won't salute the flag, either.

[Carl]

dbt (1000+ posts)        Sat Feb-23-08 02:49 PM
Original message
I won't salute the flag, either.
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Edited on Sat Feb-23-08 02:51 PM by dbt
Rumor is, a certain Pre$idential Candidate is about to come under attack from CON$ervative$ about his supposed lack of "patriotism" for his supposed refusal to salute the Murkin Flag, or stand for the National Anthem or wear the obligatory flag pin on his lapel.

I'm about as opposite of this guy as a Cracker can get, and I ain't saluting the Flag anymore, either. Not until it stands for what it USED to: Land of the Free, Home of the Brave and all that. You want me to salute the flag? Fine. Show me one that ain't made in China by slave labor and I'll think about it.

The national anthem? Sorry, I'm too BROKEN to stand up anymore. Broken in my pocketbook by the corporations that OWN our Elected Repre$entative$, broken in spirit by an entire GOVERNMENT that wipes its sorry ass with the Constitution, broken in body and mind by the pollution that my country spews into the world while greedily sucking up an inordinate share of the planet's resources.

Flag lapel pin? Talk to the middle finger, 'cause the whole hand is way too busy trying to scratch out a living to pay any attention to your dumb ass telling me how unpatriotic I am. Bring back my Constitution, bring back my country, bring back your precious Rule Of Law. Then we'll talk.

Meantime, go sell your "patriotism" to the flag-sucking half-wits. They'll buy anything!

Very Truly Yours,
dbt
Lower Arkansas

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2913360

I am and always will be happy to say the Pledge Of Allegiance regardless of who is President or regardless what political party they come from.

I am proud to be an American and you lowlife a-holes don`t deserve all this great country has provided for you.

LWolf  (1000+ posts)         Sat Feb-23-08 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. One of my students asked me this week
   why, when the whole school gathers for the flag salute every morning before school, I don't say the pledge.

Here is my answer:

"I always figured that, if saying it meant something, once was enough. If I mean what I'm saying, I don't have to renew that pledge every day as if it expired. If I don't mean it, it doesn't matter how many times I say it, it's meaningless.

Not everybody sees this the same way I do. I stand and face the flag out of respect for those who have a different point of view."

The parts I left out of what I said:

"1. I don't believe in mandating loyalty oaths. It violates freedom, in my opinion.

2. I don't pledge allegiance to any piece of silk, or to a government. I can pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the U.S., and to the ideals it was founded on. I don't need to repeat that pledge ad nauseum; it's more practical to express my allegiance with the way I choose to act as a citizen.

3. I'm not a nationalist or a patriot, and I find such things to be distasteful at the least, and dangerous, at the worst. I'm a matriot, a citizen of my mother planet. Governments are systems to benefit the health and prosperity of the planet as a whole, and if they aren't, they are at cross purposes with me.

4. If it wouldn't cost me my job to do so, I'd say the rest of this out loud."

Stay away from our children.

IMModerate  (1000+ posts)         Sat Feb-23-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Absolutely agree.
   Our real allegiance should be to the planet.

--IMM

 

troubleinwinter (1000+ posts)         Sat Feb-23-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. EXCELLENT post.
   Edited on Sat Feb-23-08 04:47 PM by troubleinwinter
I have never thought that it is appropriate to compel children to make oaths of allegiance. If one cares to take such an oath, it should be a personal decision and done at a time and age that one can weigh the meaning and then choose of one's free will to make the oath. Compelling children to blather out a daily oath is not only meaningless and stupid, perhaps makes the child an unwilling and unwitting liar, but also dilutes the meaning of oaths taken deliberately and with deep conviction.

I think The Pledge should be DISCONTINUED in schools. It should be taught and what a loyalty / allegiance pledge means. Making such a pledge should be an entirely personal matter.

I'm 57. Attended very excellent public schools in California. We were NEVER taught the hand-over-heart thing. I have never done it in my life. I see some people do it, but it isn't usual in my neck of the woods. I was stunned that this was regarded as an issue. The 'heart-thing' must be regional or something.

What a remarkably ****ing stupid, shallow, meaningless thing to turn into any kind of issue.

BTW, I think your response to the student was appropriate, given the circumstances. Folks aren't expected to renew their marriage vows on their front lawns before going to work each day, are they? A supposedly solemnly taken oath is supposed to stand forever. Elected officials aren't swearing to defend and protect the Constitution every morning.

Having children take an oath/pledge of allegiance should be made illegal in public schools. If they're too young to make a judgment on whether to smoke tobacco, they're too young to make an oath of allegiance to a nation/state.

Okay,then stop trying to indoctrinate them on your global warming religion too.

Ripley (1000+ posts)        Sat Feb-23-08 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. Those flag pins sure are reminiscent of those little
   pins the Nazi Boyz loved to decorate themselves with. I have found it quite disgusting that one particular TV channel, think it's CBS has all of their NFL announcers on the pre-game show wearing them. Like what the HELL does that have to do with FOOTBALL? I often wondered what would happen to someone who refused to wear it.

Jingoism is this country is at absurd levels. I've traveled a bit and I have NEVER seen flags so omnipresent except in pictures of Germany in the 1930's. One more scary resemblance to Hitler's world.

 
btw..

abq e streeter  (756 posts)         Sat Feb-23-08 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
12. " ..and to the republicans, for whom it now stands...
   Edited on Sat Feb-23-08 04:14 PM by abq e streeter
one wounded nation , under their god, with dwindling liberty, and justice for rich white people."
   

Racist much?

maddezmom   (1000+ posts)         Sat Feb-23-08 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
20. locking
   Please keep GD-P posts in GD-P.

Whoops.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

So I Guess that means that as a soldier I'm only obligated to protect the rights of freedom and self-governance when I feel its appropriate, huh?

[TheSarge]

Since when the **** did showing proper respect to the flag and saying the pledge suddenly become a Democrat or Republican thing.

[Lord Undies]

$kinner really needs a BDS forum.  

[CactusCarlos]

$kinner really needs a BDS forum.  

Or just change the name of the board to bdsunderground.com

[Crazy Horse]

   

[dandi]

IMModerate  (1000+ posts)         Sat Feb-23-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Absolutely agree.
   Our real allegiance should be to the planet.

--IMM

What are you, a planetist or something? What have you got against Uranus, or anyone's anus for that matter? Wait, don't answer that.

[Red October]

I've traveled a bit and I have NEVER seen flags so omnipresent except in pictures of Germany in the 1930's. One more scary resemblance to Hitler's world.

Right.  The Pledge and the American flag make us just like Nazi Germany.  Well, with the exception of everyone on that retarded board not being arrested and killed, we're just like National Socialist Workers Party of Germany. 

How do people this ****in' stupid manage to tie their shoes?   

[Red October]

American flags!  Quick, hide our children!   

[TheSarge]

What are you, a planetist or something? What have you got against Uranus, or anyone's anus for that matter? Wait, don't answer that.

Globalist.  One of the 'Tards that thinks we should turn over all national sovergnity to the U.N. and let those jackasses govern the planet.

[dandi]

What are you, a planetist or something? What have you got against Uranus, or anyone's anus for that matter? Wait, don't answer that.

Globalist.  One of the 'Tards that thinks we should turn over all national sovergnity to the U.N. and let those jackasses govern the planet.

If any of of the DUmbasses did salute the flag it would spontaneously burst into flame anyway, so it's probably best they don't. They need to just keep displaying their America-hate. That way they'll be easier to identify when the time comes.

[Airwolf]

Since when the **** did showing proper respect to the flag and saying the pledge suddenly become a Democrat or Republican thing.

You know when. It was when the Democratic Party finally decided to become filled with sedititon and treason after the 1950's.

[XL]

What do you expect from a site that has this as one of its default avatars?



What a bunch of anti-American pieces of garbage. I hope everyone who loves to deface the flag gets their asses kicked by a Marine someday.

[Chris_]

What do you expect from a site that has this as one of its default avatars?



What a bunch of anti-American pieces of garbage. I hope everyone who loves to deface the flag gets their asses kicked by a Marine someday.

We need more Marines.

[Full-Auto]

I am so sick of fair weather patriots.

"I love my country when Clinton is in the White House."

"I hate my country when Bush is in the White House."

Losers.

[Full-Auto]

What do you expect from a site that has this as one of its default avatars?



What a bunch of anti-American pieces of garbage. I hope everyone who loves to deface the flag gets their asses kicked by a Marine someday.

We need more Marines.

That's because Marines stand for what is right and we'll take a beating if necessary to make our point.  If you ever burn a flag in my presence, I'm going to jail for assault.  I'll stand before any judge and say, "yes sir I kicked his teeth down his throat for defacing our flag."  If that judge puts me in jail, so be it.  I've endured far worse in the service of our nation and there are those that have given FAR more than I have for the same cause.  I have no sympathy for cowards, traitors or liberals.

[Full-Auto]

Oh, and we don't need more Marines.  The Marines do just fine with their high standards and strict military doctrine.  What we need more of are Patriots.  It's the average citizen that makes the difference.  Few can be Marines but everyone can be a Patriot.  Patriots have made this nation what is is today.

[RedTail]

Oh, and we don't need more Marines.  The Marines do just fine with their high standards and strict military doctrine.  What we need more of are Patriots.  It's the average citizen that makes the difference.  Few can be Marines but everyone can be a Patriot.  Patriots have made this nation what is is today.

My dear Full-Auto, I don't even think they make the standards of being a Patriot. . .much less a lover of this country.

*TKay*

[TheSarge]

That's because Marines stand for what is right and we'll take a beating if necessary to make our point.  If you ever burn a flag in my presence, I'm going to jail for assault.  I'll stand before any judge and say, "yes sir I kicked his teeth down his throat for defacing our flag."  If that judge puts me in jail, so be it.  I've endured far worse in the service of our nation and there are those that have given FAR more than I have for the same cause.  I have no sympathy for cowards, traitors or liberals.

The Army concurs and will protect your six on this.

[Atomic Lib Smasher]

Since when the **** did showing proper respect to the flag and saying the pledge suddenly become a Democrat or Republican thing.

But don't ever question their patriotism. 

[DixieBelle]

You know, my grandfather served this country. Twice. He never failed to raise the American flag outside his home every single day of his life. And every day he was proud to do so. No matter who was president or what current political scandal was brewing.

Screw you DU. You could learn a thing or two from the brave men and women who fought and died for that flag.

[TheSarge]

Screw you DU. You could learn a thing or two from the brave men and women who fought and died for that flag.

They won't learn.  You have to make a sacrifice of some kind in your life to truly appreciate the flag and what it means.

The DUmmies will never have that kind of backbone.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

They forget the true hallmark of free, democratic government.

It isn't about how you conduct yourself both in victory AND defeat.

If you use victory to suppress the opposition and defeat to spoil the justly won victory of the opposition you are not a believer of democracy; you are a petty tyrant demanding his way with no respect for the opinions, beliefs and policies of others.

They are not patriots they aren't even--by dictionary definition--democrats.

[jukin]

IMHO, whenever I have been to france there are far more flags out than I have ever seen here except 7/4, 11/11, or 9/11.  Dumpmonkeys don't get out too much.

[Bondai]

They are just voicing their opinion, no matter how twitsted and deviant it is....they have that right.