Primitive #47 says religion is a choice

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5723971

Mythsaje  (1000+ posts)        Tue May-26-09 04:18 PM
Original message
 
If homosexuality is a "choice," well, so is religion.
 
So why does a religion have the ability to dominate the discussion and influence public policy to the extent allowed in the Gay Marriage issue?

I don't believe homosexuality is a choice--but religion certainly is. People can decide to accept what they're told by their predecessors (parents, grandparents, or others) or go their own way. It's most strikingly a CHOICE. Gay people get the "choice" of accepting who they are and doing what seems right for them, or being weighed down by the stigma impressed upon them by religions that should have no say in their lives.

That's ****ing bullshit.

"Special Rights" are the right to tell other people what they can and can't do based on YOUR religion persuasion. Telling gays they can't marry is like the Mormons telling the rest of us we can't drink coffee or our caffeinated beverage of choice. Or Protestants telling Catholics they can't revere the Pope (setting aside why anyone WOULD revere that asshat).

"Don't Ask Don't Tell?" Can we make that apply to religion too? Hell, I'd RATHER it applied to religion.

Sorry the vote went the way it did in California. But I'm hoping that we can turn around and use the initiative processes in the various states to do ALL of us some good. If they can pull this off, what's stopping US from using it to reform political campaigns on a state-by-state basis? There are a lot of progressive things that the initiative processes can get off the ground. So maybe it's time to use their own tools against them.

Oh, I dunno, but never mind.

Fresh_Start  (1000+ posts)        Tue May-26-09 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
 
1. Personally I think that we should ban same religion marriages they just concentrate the loonies.

The skumbag primitive, who's not numbered:

Ian David  (1000+ posts)        Tue May-26-09 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
 
3. Require that one partner in each marriage must be an Atheist.

Fresh_Start  (1000+ posts)        Tue May-26-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
 
10. no, I think mixed religions are just fine

negotiating differences in religion can be an education by itself

Ian David  (1000+ posts)        Tue May-26-09 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
 
2. Let's ban Mormon and Catholic "Marriage."

Oeditpus Rex  (1000+ posts)      Tue May-26-09 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
 
8. Through the ****ed-up California initiative process that's actually possible.

Ian David  (1000+ posts)        Tue May-26-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
 
13. Or we could just pick on The Amish. They have nothing to do with this, but they're an easy target. 

Just to illustrate how awful the Prop8 decision was.

Let's pass a ballot initiative requiring every home to be wired for electricity-- no exceptions for The Amish.

Primitive #47 again:

Mythsaje  (1000+ posts)        Tue May-26-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
 
15. Are there any Amish IN California?

Just asking.

Ian David  (1000+ posts)        Tue May-26-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
 
16. Yes, there are. 

They started driving from Pennsylvania in 1803, and just arrived on Monday.

But seriously, yes... There are a whole bunch of Amish in California.

The shadowy primitive, Primitive #43:

shadowknows69  (1000+ posts)        Tue May-26-09 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
 
4. Religion is indisputably a choice.

A personal choice based on MYTHS. Maybe Jesus loves the little children but I wasn't born loving Jesus.

Mythsaje  (1000+ posts)        Tue May-26-09 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
 
11. Ain't never met him, though I hear he hangs out in prisons a lot.

Keep hearing about prisoners "finding Jesus." What--in their oatmeal?

shadowknows69  (1000+ posts)        Tue May-26-09 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
 
12. I think he's been locked in solitary for about 2000 years

ayeshahaqqiqa  (1000+ posts)        Tue May-26-09 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
 
5. I like the idea of using initiatives to help us with progressive causes and I want to keep the First Amendment alive and well.

So does franksolich, but franksolich gets the reasonable impression many primitives want to do away with the First Amendment.

Mythsaje  (1000+ posts)        Tue May-26-09 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
 
7. Both Washington and California have them...

It's the damn "conservatives" that keep using them to **** things up. So why can't we leverage public financed elections into place using it? For starters? How about a STATE cap on credit card fees? It's a thought.

Primitive #47 once again betrays he's having some, uh, money problems.

cbc5g  (1000+ posts)        Tue May-26-09 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
 
6. How about a new PROP 666 to outlaw mormonism

AndyA  (1000+ posts)        Tue May-26-09 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
 
9. I've said the same thing many times.

Gay people do not "choose" to be gay. They are born gay. Just like they are born male or female, black, white, or otherwise, brunette, blonde, or so forth. No choice there, it's just genetic.

People do choose to be bigoted, hateful, religious zealots, though.

There is a reason there is supposed to be a separation of church and state.

Great post, I agree completely!

NashVegas  (1000+ posts)        Tue May-26-09 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
 
14. Recommended

Religion is a choice that was once made for me, and when I came of age to decide for myself, I declined. I don't have too much trouble with people who choose to embrace it.

immoderate  (1000+ posts)        Tue May-26-09 04:50 PM
Response to Original message

17. Is being superstitious a choice?

Primitive #61, the grouchy old primitive:

NNN0LHI  (1000+ posts)      Tue May-26-09 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
 
18. The potential for religion is genetic

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090412031...

The potential for religion is genetic - humans have a tendency to try and explain everything. When early humans couldn't explain something rationally, they came up with the next best thing - a magic superbeing that was doing stuff. In that sense, religion is a learned behaviour.

Having said that, there may well be a genetic make up that makes some people more likely to want to believe in something. But the religion itself is still learned.

The AdBot primitive, no number assigned, asks "Are You a Genius?" again.

[TheSarge]

Mythsaje  (1000+ posts)        Tue May-26-09 04:18 PM
Original message
 
If homosexuality is a "choice," well, so is religion.

No one has ever said it isn't.

[ReaganForRushmore]

This is why God gave man free will....you can accept God or reject God. For me, I enjoy my relationship with our savior. I'm a better man for it.

[Carl]

Okay idiots,go ahead and follow whatever procedures there are to put an initiative on the ballot...nothing is stopping you.
If it passes and meets the tests of Constitutionality then it will stand.

What is your problem with doing it?

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

I've wondered when some lib would get around to making this claim. Frankly, I'm surprised it took them this long and I'm happy to tell the little dimwits that the Constitution presupposes the answer.

You see, DUmmies, the founders figured the spiritual yearnings of man outweighed his passions of the flesh. It's rooted in that sectarianism you claim doesn't/cannot possibly exist, but the supposition is there: man MUST use his soul to govern his flesh. Just because you feel like putting your penis someplace doesn't necessarily mean you ought to or that the state is obligated to protect that proclivity.

If gayness is not a choice than what says you are entitled to your passion anymore than the common neurotic? The question becomes: but is it sufficiently harmful to society? Well, it seems the governed--from whom government must obtain consent in order to govern--have answered that it sufficiently damages the intent of marriage.

[franksolich]

Damn, you're good, Mr. Snuggle, sir.

Admirable.

[MrsSmith]

People are born with all kinds of negative tendencies... to bully, to abuse alcohol, to become addicted to other drugs, to be completely self-centered, etc.  Why would the tendency to choose same-sex sexual behavior be a protected negative tendency?

[thundley4]

People are born with all kinds of negative tendencies... to bully, to abuse alcohol, to become addicted to other drugs, to be completely self-centered, etc.  Why would the tendency to choose same-sex sexual behavior be a protected negative tendency?

You're quite right, in fact, those other negative proclivities that people are born with are frowned upon by society, and punished in most cases.

[FlaGator]

The sound like a bunch of children arguing about grown up issues, trying to sound mature.

[AllosaursRus]

Mythsaje  (1000+ posts)        Tue May-26-09 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
 
11. Ain't never met him, though I hear he hangs out in prisons a lot.

Keep hearing about prisoners "finding Jesus." What--in their oatmeal?

I'd sure like to be there when you have to answer for your blasphemy Mr. SaggyMyth.

As soon as you can explain how the universe came from absolutely nothing perhaps I might give you idiots the time of day. The BIG BANG, huh? Yeah, you guys know it all doncha? (wink, wink)

Bwahahahahahahahahaha! Amazing ain't it? Everything came from nothing. No help from anyone or anything. Yep makes sense to me, NOT!

[miskie]

Ian David  (1000+ posts)        Tue May-26-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
 
16. Yes, there are.

They started driving from Pennsylvania in 1803, and just arrived on Monday.

But seriously, yes... There are a whole bunch of Amish in California.

I never thought I'd say this about this particular DUmmy - I have to give him props - that is funny. 

Other than that the thread isn't worth the squirt of electricity I wasted reading it.

[Chris_]

I'd sure like to be there when you have to answer for your blasphemy Mr. SaggyMyth.

As soon as you can explain how the universe came from absolutely nothing perhaps I might give you idiots the time of day. The BIG BANG, huh? Yeah, you guys know it all doncha? (wink, wink)

Bwahahahahahahahahaha! Amazing ain't it? Everything came from nothing. No help from anyone or anything. Yep makes sense to me, NOT!

I love when my NeoCommie sister eventually comes around to making assertions about God being unnecessary, because of the Big Bang, or evolution, or whatever theory du jour the unwashed masses have clung to this week.  My answer is always the same:

Sis, you have mistaken the mechanism, for The Mechanic.

Not believing in God doesn't mean that you believe something else; not believing in God makes you susceptable to believing ANYTHING else.

[Sam Adams]

Okay idiots,go ahead and follow whatever procedures there are to put an initiative on the ballot...nothing is stopping you.
If it passes and meets the tests of Constitutionality then it will stand.

What is your problem with doing it?

Errr....Wouldn't that require leaving the basement?

[JohnnyReb]

Religion is a choice, huh? Not at my momma's house, she told me I was a Methodist and that I'd like girls.....she was right on both counts.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

I love when my NeoCommie sister eventually comes around to making assertions about God being unnecessary, because of the Big Bang, or evolution, or whatever theory du jour the unwashed masses have clung to this week.  My answer is always the same:

Not believing in God doesn't mean that you believe something else; not believing in God makes you susceptable to believing ANYTHING else.

It's my experience that those who profess to believe in natural selection want to lives their lives that way or want others to do so.

The same cannot be said of theists.

[The Village Idiot]

No one has ever said it isn't.

freedom of religion is in the first amendment, right??

[TheSarge]

freedom of religion is in the first amendment, right??

It most certainly is.

[delilahmused]

Once again an idiot profoundly states the obvious.

Cindie