Can we have an honest conversation about Bernie? NanceGreggs

[CC27]

NanceGreggs (25,284 posts)

 
Can we have an honest conversation about Bernie?

 
There are facts that simply can’t be ignored.

Bernie is an extremely divisive figure in our party. Many Democrats resent his use of our party when it’s convenient for him, rather than being committed to the party full stop. And saying “but he votes with/caucuses with the Dems most of the time” doesn’t make him a Democrat, no matter how many times it's said.

Even when Bernie runs on the Democratic ticket, he attacks the party. That doesn’t exactly endear him to committed party members – especially in today’s political environment, when being a united party is key. By stating that “the Democratic establishment AND the Republican establishment can’t stop him”, he is being extremely divisive by putting himself out as someone who is actually running against BOTH parties, and not as someone who is running FOR the party that he is supposedly running on behalf of.

The constant cries about how being a “Democratic socialist” doesn’t mean he IS a communist-type socialist is a moot point. Unless you plan to go door-to-door and explain the difference to all of the voters who equate ‘socialism’ with USSR communism, you are not going to change their minds. They hear “socialist’, and they attach their own (albeit ill-informed) meaning to the term – and it’s NOT the style of government they will vote for.

I’ve seen this repeatedly on the sites I participate in where both Dems and Repubs post: “I don’t want Trump to be re-elected – but I’ll be damned if I’ll vote for a communist.” You can shout all you want about how these people don’t understand what socialism is, or how what Bernie is proposing isn’t socialism as they perceive it. But people vote according to what they believe, and not according to what you think they should believe.

It is also a fact that many Bernie supporters tend to be vitriolic towards those who disagree with them. We saw it in 2016, and we’re seeing it again now. You can blame it on Russian bots, or people pretending to be Bernie supporters all you want – but the fact remains that the vitriol is there, and it is as divisive as it is appalling.

Here on DU, we have been told repeatedly that those who aren’t in lockstep behind Bernie are “Bernie haters”. What is notable about that meme is that we don’t see any OPs here about Amy haters, Biden haters, Buttigieg haters, or Warren haters. The fact that Bernie supporters alone push the idea that not supporting Bernie is a result of some unfounded ‘hatred’ – rather than a well thought-out preference for someone else – speaks for itself.

I have many “problems” with Bernie – and I have often stated them. But my biggest problem is the fact that so many Bernie supporters are simply ignoring the facts. Bernie is divisive at a time when we need to be united – and that doesn’t bode well for beating Trump in November. If Bernie can’t unite Democrats, he won’t be uniting the country any time soon.

We know that most Democrats will vote for Bernie over Trump. But we need more than that. We need to persuade those who are disgruntled with Trump to see us as a viable alternative. We need a candidate who offers viable solutions to the nation’s problems – NOT a candidate who is causing division among our own party members, while making pie-in-the-sky campaign promises that have zero chance of ever coming to fruition.

We know that Trump, the Russians, and the GOP are dying to see Bernie as the Dem nominee. That’s not because – as many Bernie supporters keep saying – “they’re afraid of Bernie”. No, they’re not. They are promoting Bernie because they already know that defeating him will be an easy task. They started collecting the oppo-research in 2016 when it seemed possible he would be the Dem candidate – and they have now redoubled their effiorts to collect even more.

I am only writing this to say that there are legitimate reasons for many of us not wanting Bernie to be the nominee – and insisting that “Bernie hatred” is the root of the problem is not only insulting and condescending, it is self-defeating.

If you want to see Bernie as our 2020 candidate, that’s fine. But ignoring the facts about his chances is political suicide. Saying things like “everyone will eventually come around to supporting Bernie” is a pipe dream. Insisting that moderate Republicans will somehow come around to realizing that Bernie’s idea of socialism is not what they perceive it as is ludicrous.

In summary, my biggest problem with Bernie supporters is not that they lack a way to educate the populace about the facts – but instead keep insisting that the facts simply don’t exist.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287570879

I can't read that without vodka first.

[Ralph Wiggum]

I can't read that without vodka first.

She can't write it without vodka either.

[67 Rover]

I can't read that without vodka first.

Cliff note version for you. Bernie's Socialism is the good kind of Socialism not the bad kind.  We just need it explained to us properly.

 Dear lord in heaven these people are stupid.

[USA4ME]

No wonder she can’t properly diagnose conservative politics. She can’t diagnose liberal politics, either.

What a major waste of a post except to try and establish some type of personal creed as having drawn some line in the sand that she can receive praise on later. Bernie bros could care less about her simpleminded plea.

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[dutch508]

She can't write it without vodka either.

Is that... RUSSIAN VODKA!!!!!?????

[zeitgeist]

Is that... RUSSIAN VODKA!!!!!?????

Black Russian or White Russian? Will a little grey goose be involved (c'est dommage)?

[SVPete]

"Honest" is a word that Nance and most DUpipo should not use.

[Drafe Hoblin]

Can we have an honest conversation about Nance Greggs? 

And how the GOP forced 'many' at DU to seriously think wrongly at this pivotal moment.