People who eschew property discuss property taxes

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Moosepoop  (1000+ posts)      Thu Jan-06-11 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. That's true, higher property value = higher property taxes.
 But in this lady's case, her home value went DOWN and her taxes on it still went UP.

"Geraldine lives alone on Social Security and owns her own home," Cuomo said in his speech. "Her home value, property value has gone down and her taxes have gone up. Geraldine could no longer afford to make ends meet. What did Geraldine do? So at 81 years old she went back to work as a lunch monitor at the local high school just to be able to stay in her home and just to be able to stay in the state ..."

That's the part of this story that I don't understand... why would her property taxes rise if her assessment went down? 

I dunno, why did the liberals fight to see taxes go up in the middle of a recession?

Maybe because you feel entitled to everyone else's money to pay for your so-called "safety nets" that we supposedly need to save 81-year old women from having to get jobs.

Jokerman (1000+ posts)        Thu Jan-06-11 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. This is anti-property tax propaganda.
 I think it's a shame that anyone would have to come out of retirement to pay their bills but the real issue is her retirement income, not her expenses.

She is being exploited by the rich people who don't really give a damn about her. They just want to save themselves a few dollars at the expense of our schools and infrastructure.

After they cap the property tax they'll raise the sales tax because that hurts poor people more than the rich.

Or maybe the government is spending too much.

Stop spending so much and you won't have to raise property or sales taxes.

NNN0LHI  (1000+ posts)      Thu Jan-06-11 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Propaganda?
 Then riddle me this. Why am I finding myself in the same predicament as this woman? By the time we finish paying off the house we are living in the property taxes alone will be more than my entire mortgage payment which included Principal, Interest, Property Taxes and Insurance was when we bought this house 21 years ago. And when we bought this that mortgage payment was based on our income when I was still working which was 3 times what I get on my pension.

So you think this is just all a figment of our imagination that we won't be able to afford the property taxes on this house after its paid for? Is that what you are suggesting? That there is really nothing to worry about? We should forget that our property taxes have already quadrupled in the 21 years we have lived here? From $1200 per year 21 years ago to almost $4800 now. We should just act like that didn't really happen? WTF?

Don

Non-answer to follow in 3...2...1...

Jokerman (1000+ posts)        Thu Jan-06-11 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. Yes, it is propaganda.
 propaganda
Definition:
1. publicity to promote something: information put out by an organization or government to promote a policy, idea, or cause
2. misleading publicity: deceptive or distorted information that is systematically spread


I'm not saying that there aren't inequities in the property tax system or that every single property tax calculation is fair and just, but it is a progressive tax designed to pay for the impact your property and the residents have on the infrastructure. Across the board property tax caps are part of the strategic class war the rich have been waging on the rest of us for years. Property tax cuts and caps are usually accompanied by an increase in a regressive tax like the sales tax. Government spending doesn't change, the only change is in where the money comes from and which level of the government controls it.

If your property taxes are too high there is a good chance that you're paying more to make up for abatements they've given to their corporate buddies.

Why would the rich, who presumably steal money from people through the goods and services they produce, want sales taxes increased when it diverts money from their corporate coffers into the government money pit?

NNN0LHI  (1000+ posts)      Thu Jan-06-11 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. The description for what is happening is called reality not propaganda
 Edited on Thu Jan-06-11 06:46 PM by NNN0LHI
Reality

Meaning:

1 : the true situation that exists : the real situation â–ª He refused to face/accept reality. <=the truth> â–ª the difference between fiction/fantasy and reality â–ª She's out of touch with reality. <=she does not know what is really true> â–ª The reality is that we can't afford to buy a house. â–ª He used television as an escape from reality.

2 : something that actually exists or happens : a real event, occurrence, situation, etc. ▪ The movie shows the harsh/grim/stark realities of war. <=the things that really happen in a war> ▪ Her dream of competing in the Olympics became a reality. <=she competed in the Olympics, as she had dreamed of doing> ▪ They made the plan a reality. —see also virtual reality

-------------------

When I look at my property tax bill that is reality not propaganda. I wish it was just misleading publicity as you are falsely suggesting but it isn't.

Its like you asking me who am I going to believe? You or my lying eyes?

Don

neocon

Meaning:

1: a liberal mugged by reality

badtoworse (242 posts)      Thu Jan-06-11 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
43. Cuomo has said he will not raise taxes
 He is going to cut expenses. That is the right move

Enjoy your stay, n00b.

howaboutme (1000+ posts)        Thu Jan-06-11 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
19. Property taxes should be eliminated
 They are unfair, subjective and expensive to assess, and everyone thinks they are being screwed. They are also counterproductive because they discourage home improvement. It should be replaced with a tax on consumption and income and wealth which is much more efficient to collect and more fair to the elderly. It amounts to requiring people to rent their houses forever from the government. I've seen cases where big wheel politicos get special assessments (i.e. PA Sen Fumo)in Philadelphia where his house was assessed at $250K and worth millions. 

Commie Pinko Dirtbag  (1000+ posts)        Thu Jan-06-11 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
37. I agree with that. Replace the property taxes with higher upper-end brackets for income taxes.
 And estate taxes. And capital gains taxes. And maybe others I forget.

I am of the opinion that money should only be taxed when it changes hands.

 

Money not changing hands is called economic stagnation.

GSLevel9 (895 posts)      Thu Jan-06-11 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
46. I'll buy that... nt

Yeah, but you could never afford the taxes on it.

bullwinkle428  (1000+ posts)      Thu Jan-06-11 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
22. Banksters destroy the national economy, which in turns decimates
 state economies, and 81-year-olds are then forced back to work to pick up the tab of those continuing to pop the corks on $5000 bottles of champagne!   

I'm sure Alan Simpson is finding this to be absolutely hilarious!   

WTF does Goldman-Sackless care about bike paths in Podunk, NY?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x125835

[jukin]

I heard Cuomo and will be having a bruise on my chest from my jaw dropping for months.  I don't believe a word he said (donks lie, they lie all the time) but was shocked that he even said it in public.  I fully expect a Klintonesque, "I never worked so hard in my life to keep property taxes down but I just couldn't do it." 

I could be pleasantly surprised and I keep hoping that we have created the environment where bad people are forced to do good things but I doubt it.

[BlueStateSaint]

I heard Cuomo and will be having a bruise on my chest from my jaw dropping for months.  I don't believe a word he said (donks lie, they lie all the time) but was shocked that he even said it in public.  I fully expect a Klintonesque, "I never worked so hard in my life to keep property taxes down but I just couldn't do it." 

I could be pleasantly surprised and I keep hoping that we have created the environment where bad people are forced to do good things but I doubt it.

I heard a couple of excerpts for the speech, and knowing what I do about the NYS Assembly, I could almost hear Sheldon Silver's head expand to damn near the breaking point.

[USA4ME]

Jokerman

Government spending doesn't change

Congrats on identifying the problem.  Now do you have the economic knowledge coupled with the mental capacity to understand that ideas as stupid as this ...

Commie Pinko Dirtbag

Replace the property taxes with higher upper-end brackets for income taxes. And estate taxes. And capital gains taxes. And maybe others I forget

... will never be the answer?  My guess is no, you don't.

.

[JohnnyReb]

How much property tax can there be on a DUmmies' WAL-MART tent?

[Chris_]

NNN0LHI  (1000+ posts)      Thu Jan-06-11 11:20 AM
Original message

Ah, the Golden Years. Do everything right. Work until you can collect a pension. Pay your house off. And then can't afford to live there because your property taxes have gotten too high. This is not right. Anyone who tries to tell convince you this is right is full of shit. **** that.

Must be all those conservatives that fled up north raising taxes on everybody.  Damn, you can't get away from them.

[DumbAss Tanker]

They don't get it because they don't own real property, I guess.  It's pretty simple, though the words may vary from state to state:  Property tax is a charge of a changeable rate of tax against the current valuation of the property. 

Though the whole process is often called assessment, there are really two steps - first valuation of property, then the tax district figures out how much money they need and levys that bill over all the total value of taxable property in their jurisdiction.  That tells them what the rate of tax needs to be, they set it and send out the bills.

If most of the property went down in market value, but the budget the revenue has to meet doesn't or goes up, all that means is the tax rate goes way up on the decreased-value property.  It's a zero-sum game. 

[GOBUCKS]

NNN0LHI  (1000+ posts)      Thu Jan-06-11 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
And when we bought this that mortgage payment was based on our income when I was still working which was 3 times what I get on my pension.

Those damn banksters! They set his payment based on his income, and then he stopped working. I'm not sure how that works. I never even knew it when they decided what my mortgage would be. 

You know, it's too bad that DUmmy Nine Inch Nails has such a moronic handle. If it were something we could latch onto, he would be a lot more prominent DUmbass. He is plenty crazy enough. But when you have something really stupid for a name, people tend to ignore you. The only exception to that I can think of is DUmmy nadinbrzhczrbczski.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Those damn banksters! They set his payment based on his income, and then he stopped working. I'm not sure how that works. I never even knew it when they decided what my mortgage would be. 

You know, it's too bad that DUmmy Nine Inch Nails has such a moronic handle. If it were something we could latch onto, he would be a lot more prominent DUmbass. He is plenty crazy enough. But when you have something really stupid for a name, people tend to ignore you. The only exception to that I can think of is DUmmy nadinbrzhczrbczski.

If we can get her to say it backwards, does she pop out of existence in this dimension and stop bothering us?

[AllosaursRus]

Just how much intelligence does it take to realize when property values go down, and the local gubmint spends the same or more, you're ****ed?

Crikey, I think I could explain that to my 3 year old granddaughter!!!!

DUmmies...............? not a chance!

You're right Tank, they truly live in another dimension! The dimension of Ruby Slippers, "there's no place like home" and Star Wars, "use the force Luke"[/b]!

[Texacon]

They should all sell any real estate they own and move into rentals.  Then they don't have to pay for;

Taxes
Maintenance
Insurance
Mortgage
Etc ...

 

KC

[true_blood]

Jokerman (1000+ posts)        Thu Jan-06-11 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. This is anti-property tax propaganda.
I think it's a shame that anyone would have to come out of retirement to pay their bills but the real issue is her retirement income, not her expenses. She is being exploited by the rich people who don't really give a damn about her. They just want to save themselves a few dollars at the expense of our schools and infrastructure.After they cap the property tax they'll raise the sales tax because that hurts poor people more than the rich.

Again with "it's all the rich people's fault". When do you DUmmies/liberals come down to Earth and realize what is going on? Get over it with blaming the rich. There's nothing to blame on them. If it weren't for the rich, most of you won't be eating dinner tonight, watching your HD TV's, smoking your "medical" marijuana or driving your car. So, enough with blaming the rich talk, you scrunts. It has NOTHING to do with "rich" people.

[jukin]

What kind of delusion must you have to blame rich people for the government extorting whatever sum is wanted from people in property taxes? 

Seniors lose their house while government employees retire at 90% of the highest years wage for the rest of their life. That's is what it boils down to.