Author Topic: What would you do  (Read 523 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dutch508

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12521
  • Reputation: +1646/-1068
  • Remember
What would you do
« on: April 16, 2021, 04:55:06 PM »
Quote
Star Member StarfishSaver (14,309 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215343147

What would you do?
Imagine you are a 13-year-old kid in a group of older people who are being chased by the police. You have a gun, but you don't want to use it and you don't want to get shot. You just want to go home. You're willing to be arrested and deal with the consequences if that means staying alive.

As you run, a cop yells for you to stop. You immediately stop. The cop then tells you to put up your hands.

What do you do?

 :thatsright:

Quote
Star Member Phoenix61 (9,765 posts)

1. Throw the gun the second I see the cops.

Never had a gun but I’ve lost at least two really nice pipes.

 :stoner:

Quote
Star Member StarfishSaver (14,309 posts)

2. That's what Adam did, just before he out up his hands

What would you have done after you dropped the gun?

Glad you didn't get shot by a cop who claimed he was justified because not only did your pipe look like a gun, you were doing drugs and, therefore, brought about your own death.

Quote
Star Member StarfishSaver (14,309 posts)

4. That's what Adam did. And got shot.

Was there anything he could have done differently at that point to avoid being killed by that cop?

Quote
Star Member StarfishSaver (14,309 posts)

13. Or maybe he was expecting the worst because this kid was not white

Black and brown men get shot all the time regardless "the type of call." White men don't get shot on these "types of calls" nearly as frequently. Black and brown people get shot in traffic stops, in their apartments, while they're sleeping, while they're walking down the street minding their own business.

The "type of call" isn't the common denominator in these killings. The race of the victim is.

Quote
Omnipresent (4,030 posts)

5. Cooperate with police, and put your hands up.

Never give a cop an opening, to harm or kill you.
Never resist arrest and try to flee, (regardless of race) you could be shot intentionally or accidentally.

Quote
Star Member StarfishSaver (14,309 posts)

10. That's exactly what Adam did.

He stopped running, dropped the gun and put his hands in the air immediately upon being ordered to do so. He cooperated.

And he was immediately shot to death when he did.

So much for your instructions on how to avoid being shot.

Quote
Star Member Phoenix61 (9,765 posts)

15. If you the answers why are you asking any questions?

If you want to make a point just make it.

Quote
Star Member StarfishSaver (14,309 posts)

16. I'm asking the question so that people who insist that Adam did the wrong thing and if he had done

something differently, he'd still be alive will have to walk through the scenario to see that their assumption is probably not correct.

Yes, I can tell you that myself. But it is much more effective if you figure it out yourself.

I'm asking you to tell me exactly what he should have done differently in that moment that would have resulted in him walking out of there alive. So far, no one has been able to tell me since it seems that he did everything he was supposed to do - and everything that apologists for police killings usually insist Black and Brown men should do in order not to get shot.

But if you cannot say what he could have done differently in that moment that would have resulted in a different outcome, you must acknowledge that the shooting was not his fault. It is all on the cop who shot an unarmed child after he had surrendered.

Quote
Star Member Ms. Toad (26,264 posts)

20. Only one thing I can think of -

Rather than toss the gun over the fence (where it is out of sight - and potentially still a threat), toss it on the ground in a visible location.

This is a life-saving suggestion, not a criticism of anything the child did or justification for the shooting. Just suggesting that if the threat (gun) remains in sight but inaccessible, it is crystal clear the child is unarmed and a trigger-happy LEO might be less likely to use the no longer visible gun as an excuse to pull the trigger.

Quote
Star Member StarfishSaver (14,309 posts)

23. True... But that would require some pretty sophisticated thinking by a 13-year-old chikd

in the most stressful moment of his life.

Quote
Star Member Hoyt (48,347 posts)

19. Agree with what you are getting at. Agree this kid should not have been shot.

But

apparently he did have a gun right up until he threw it down and put up his hands.

In a perfect world, the police would have handcuffed him and let the courts decide what's next. In this world, the policeman was running after a kid with a gun (as I understand it), the flashlights were bobbing up and down, and in a split second the kid turned around.

We just had a similar occurrence in Atlanta. Four or so Black police officers were begging a man to put down a knife. One even yelled, "Please sir, please put down your knife, I'm a Black man and I don't want to shoot you." Unfortunately, he didn't put it down. We can argue whether they should have just let the guy go, corralled him and called a psychologist, etc., but I really don't think this was a racial killing (although I'd agree there are lots of racists aspects of our society that are ultimately responsible for a high percentage of these things).

Back to the original question. If the young man had time to think about it, he would have thrown the gun down so the policeman could see it, continue running a few more feet, then stopped -- without turning around -- and put his hands up. I believe if he had done that, he'd still be alive. But, neither he or police had the time to think it through.

Maybe some day, there will be a tool like this that will wrap around someone's arms --

[video of some stupid shit]


Quote
Star Member SoonerPride (9,729 posts)

21. If he were white he would still be alive

That’s a lot shorter post than yours and truer too.

 :thatsright:

Quote
Star Member Hoyt (48,347 posts)

24. Honestly, not so sure. While Blacks get shot proportionately greater than whites. Whites do get shot

A long-time friend of mine's son was chased by police at a road block. I'm sure he had been drinking. In any event, the police pulled up after the turned his truck on its side. The son was reaching for his glovebox. They shot him multiple times. No gun was found, but he was killed anyway.

And no, that is not just one anecdotal example because about twice as many whites were shot than another race in past few years:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/


Before you rip off a response, I agree 100% that proportionately to percentage of the population, more Blacks are killed than whites and something needs to be done about it now, not later. The damn police need to held accountable and this stuff needs to stop.

But Whites do get shot. In fact, I'd like to see more armed rubes shot.

308,758,105 people in the USA as of 2010...

76% were classified as white.
13.4% classified as black
1.3% as native
6% classified as asian

Estimated number of arrests by offense and race, 2019
All offenses   total: 10,085,210   white: 7,014,550 [69.9%]   black: 2,667,010 [26.4%]   native: 244,200   [2.2%]
asian: 159,450 [1.3%]

In 2020, there were 1,021 fatal police shootings

457 were white [44.7%]
241 were black [23.6%]
169 were hispanic [16.5%]
the rest were 'other/unknown'

Quote
Star Member StarfishSaver (14,309 posts)

26. The fact that he may have had a gun became irrelevant the second a cop ordered him for his hands up

and he complied.

The entire point of ordering something to put their hands up is to make sure they don't have a gun and that, if they do, it does not pose any immediate danger to the officer because it is pointed fall above him.

Arguing that he had his gun before putting his hands up is a distraction. It doesn't matter whether he had a gun or a knife or a nuclear warhead. When the cop ordered him to put his hands up and he did, the situation shifted to new ground and he was was no longer entitled to shoot him because he thought he had previously had a gun. He has a duty to reassess the circumstances in real time to determine the level and nature of the threat in that moment, not in moments before.

Quote
Star Member Hoyt (48,347 posts)

27. Sorry, someone with a gun -- white or not -- is a threat until you have them handcuffed.

Again, I think -- while sitting safely in my recliner -- that the policeman should not have shot him.

But the formerly armed kid (who they did not know was 13 years old) whirled around and the running policeman fired.

Yes, from my recliner, I think he didn't have to shoot at that moment. But, I'd have a hard time convicting him within standards of "reasonable doubt" unless prosecution offers evidence from social media, past disciplinary records, friends, etc., that he was a hothead, racist, etc. That would change my vote.

I do think prosecutors should take a hard look at this shooting -- without the police unions that always support police -- to see if charges should be filed.

Quote
Star Member StarfishSaver (14,309 posts)

28. Bullshit

Every single person a cop engages with during his shift is a potential threat of they are not in handcuffs. That doesn't mean the cop gets to shoot them as long as they are not fully within his control.

When a cop orders a person to put up their hands and they do, they shouldn't shoot them, even if they "whirled around," - especially of they "whirl around" with their HANDS IN THE AIR.

If the cop thought the kid "whirling around" somehow put him in danger, he should have ordered him to put his hands in the air and not turn around. Any rational human is very likely to turn around to see who is behind them and what they're doing when they put their hands in the air, so his "whirling around" is perfectly logical and predictable.

As you sit in your recliner refusing to judge the cop, you are very comfortable judging the kid by going out of your way to give the cop who shot a surrendering child the benefit of the doubt.

 :whatever:
The torch of moral clarity since 12/18/07

2016 DOTY: 06 Omaha Steve - Is dying for ****'s face! How could you not vote for him, you heartless bastards!?!

Offline ADsOutburst

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4553
  • Reputation: +1211/-12
Re: What would you do
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2021, 05:01:11 PM »
I've heard that even some CNN analysts were saying it was a lawful shooting.

When you're on the left and you've lost CNN...

Offline DUmpDiver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1461
  • Reputation: +493/-5
Re: What would you do
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2021, 05:08:06 PM »
What would I do?

1) Not be thirteen roaming the streets at 2AM. (Does this kid have parents?)

2) Not be carrying a firearm at the age of thirteen.

Offline SVPete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25825
  • Reputation: +2214/-242
Re: What would you do
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2021, 06:02:11 PM »
Quote
Star Member StarfishSaver (14,309 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215343147

What would you do?
Imagine you are a 13-year-old kid in a group of older people who are being chased by the police. You have a gun, but you don't want to use it and you don't want to get shot. You just want to go home. You're willing to be arrested and deal with the consequences if that means staying alive.

As you run, a cop yells for you to stop. You immediately stop. The cop then tells you to put up your hands.

What do you do?

I see Star Moron StarfishSaver isn't the brightest bulb in the knife drawer, :rotf: ! 13YO thug-wannabe was hanging with a 20YO thugling at 2 AM, not bopping around the mall. A 13YO in possession of a handgun without parental supervision violated the law, and he wasn't at a midnight practice session at a local gun range. So he seemed quite willing to use the gun, the law be damned. I seriously doubt he was strolling back home, and running from police officers certainly evidenced unwillingness to be arrested.

 :thatsright: How does DU find people as naive and stupid as Star Moron StarfishSaver?! :thatsright:
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23048
  • Reputation: +2232/-269
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
Re: What would you do
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2021, 06:15:04 PM »
I'm pretty sure these animals think all white gun owners should be shot just for owning guns...and being white.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Mary Ann

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1714
  • Reputation: +543/-19
Re: What would you do
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2021, 06:25:50 PM »
Well, I've never been a 13-year old boy, but I've had two of them, and I can tell you for a fact that at 2 a.m. they would have been home in bed.

Offline thundley4

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40571
  • Reputation: +2222/-127
Re: What would you do
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2021, 06:29:57 PM »
I've heard that even some CNN analysts were saying it was a lawful shooting.

When you're on the left and you've lost CNN...

Quote
Star Member StarfishSaver (14,309 posts)

4. That's what Adam did. And got shot.

Was there anything he could have done differently at that point to avoid being killed by that cop?

The thug stopped only when he was cornered. His back was towards the cops. He could have raised hands, dropped the gun and then turned around. Did he? No. The stupid little shithead started to turn towards the cop with the gun in his hand. The cop had milliseconds to decide his life was worth more than the thug. He chose wisely. Adam chose poorly.

Offline DLR Pyro

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9234
  • Reputation: +1418/-29
Re: What would you do
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2021, 08:18:23 PM »
Would it be racist of me to ask why is a 13 year old out in public with a gun?
Biden is an illegitimate President.  Change my mind.

Police lives matter.

Basking in the glow of my white privilege

ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Mar-09-11 08:50 PM
64.I'd almost be willing to get a job in order to participate in
A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE
  https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4763020

Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23048
  • Reputation: +2232/-269
  • Voted Rookie-of-the-Year, 3 years running
Re: What would you do
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2021, 08:58:17 PM »
Would it be racist of me to ask why is a 13 year old out in public with a gun?

If you question the effectiveness of gun control - that's racist.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline SVPete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25825
  • Reputation: +2214/-242
Re: What would you do
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2021, 09:08:33 AM »
Would it be racist of me to ask why is a 13 year old out in public with a gun?

You are a racist! Goo goo gajoob!
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.