Mind-Numbed Theocratic Fundie Apocalypse on the Way???

[franksolich]

I have a theory about militant atheists.  They rail against God and against those who believe in Him not because they think we're wrong, but because they're afraid we're right.  And they can't tolerate the idea of a power higher than themselves. 

It's all stuff-and-nonsense.

Reality is infinite; the number of brain-cells, although a very large number, is a finite number.

The nocturnally foul one is insisting a finite mind can comprehend the infinite.

But even if the brain-cells of every human being that has ever existed, and even if every human being that has ever existed had the cerebral capacity of Albert Einstein, were combined into one single brain, that brain would still have, although a very large number, a finite number.

The finite mind cannot comprehend the infinite; reality.

The nocturnally foul one is no atheist; the nocturnally foul one believes in a diety.

The problem is, the nocturnally foul one, like the malicious cartoon character primitive on Skins's island, thinks he's God.

[daveman]

I have a theory about militant atheists.  They rail against God and against those who believe in Him not because they think we're wrong, but because they're afraid we're right.  And they can't tolerate the idea of a power higher than themselves. 

It's all stuff-and-nonsense.

Reality is infinite; the number of brain-cells, although a very large number, is a finite number.

The nocturnally foul one is insisting a finite mind can comprehend the infinite.

But even if the brain-cells of every human being that has ever existed, and even if every human being that has ever existed had the cerebral capacity of Albert Einstein, were combined into one single brain, that brain would still have, although a very large number, a finite number.

The finite mind cannot comprehend the infinite; reality.

The nocturnally foul one is no atheist; the nocturnally foul one believes in a diety.

The problem is, the nocturnally foul one, like the malicious cartoon character primitive on Skins's island, thinks he's God.

I once had a message board conversation with a woman who claimed she could perfectly understand the mind of God.  I told her that any mind she was capable of understanding was not worthy of worship. 

[franksolich]

You know, what bothers me about these Ignorants is their belief that they know the truth about things, when in fact they don't know the truth about excresence.

Never mind the global warming fantasy.

In my own lifetime, I really suspect I shall see the "law of gravity"--a currently-accepted truth, if there ever were one--proven wrong; someone will come along and show that no, it's something else.

Sometime within this century, I really suspect that "2 + 2 = 4" will be similarly disproven, someone coming along to show that no, it's something else.

This is why I don't make any big deal about evolution--whether man evolved from apes, or was created by God, or space aliens brought us here, is utterly meaningless to me. 

We'll never know, the human mind although great being finite, being incapable of understanding the absolute final truth.

Throughout all of human history, there's prolific examples of "final truths," "absolute truths," "eternal truths," that later proved flimsy lies.

Anyone, such as the nocturnally foul one, who says "I know such-and-such" to be the "truth" is an egoist, finite and fallible man trying to be infinite and infallible God.

I frankly suggest the nocturnally foul one start thinking in terms of "I think" or "I believe," rather than "I know."

Once the nocturnally foul one starts thinking that way, he might find life a great deal easier, even his haemerrhoids bothering him less.

[Chris_]

Q: What does that look like for you, and how do you feed that personal relationship with God? Some people talk about prayer, talking to God. Some talk about reading the Bible and experiencing God that way. What does that look like for you?

Senator Clinton: It has looked like the connection that I felt like I made as a child but just kept growing and was always present in my life. I believe in the father, son, and Holy Spirit, and I have felt the presence of the Holy Spirit on many occasions in my years on this earth. I pray, I read the Bible, I read commentary on scriptures, I read other people’s faith journeys. That is, for me, at the real core of how I keep feeding my faith. And, I was lucky because, as I said at the faith and politics event, I was taught to pray and I inculcate it as a habit in my daily life.

Excuse my language, but what a bunch of ****ing bullshit.

[The Night Owl]

As for your question...God has said that none can see Him and live, so a man claiming to be God would be obviously false, regardless of how he arrived in front of me, or else I'd be dead.     

You're dodging the question. The Bible indicates that God is omnipotent. So, even if humans normally die as a result of seeing God, God can, if he wants to, prevent a person from dying after seeing him.

[The Night Owl]

Anyone, such as the nocturnally foul one, who says "I know such-and-such" to be the "truth" is an egoist, finite and fallible man trying to be infinite and infallible God.

I don't claim to know the truth. I'm just more nearly certain about some things than other things.

[The Night Owl]

A man appears before you out of thin air and claims to be God. The man tells you to kill the next person you see wearing red shoes. What do you do?

Seeing as "even the Devil appears of an angel of light" you would weigh the decision against your God-given sense of morality at which point you would reason that a god of justice would never seek the arbitrary murder of an innocent person or order the execution of a guilty person without establishing a moral context; ergo the man claiming to be God is only a devil or a charlaton to be rebuked.

Welcome to Failville. Population: you.

How would you know that the person who the apparition is asking you to kill is innocent? Perhaps the person the apparition is asking you to kill is a serial killer or a serial killer in the making.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

You don't read, do you?

[The Night Owl]

You don't read, do you?

I've read everything in this thread. All you're trying to do here is look for any way out of dealing with the question I presented.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

...a god of justice would never...order the execution of a guilty person without establishing a moral context...

idjit

[The Night Owl]

...a god of justice would never...order the execution of a guilty person without establishing a moral context...

idjit

What you think God would or would not do is irrelevant. A supreme being can do whatever it wants to do and is not obliged to act according to how you imagine it should act.

[Chris_]

...a god of justice would never...order the execution of a guilty person without establishing a moral context...

idjit

What you think God would or would not do is irrelevant. A supreme being can do whatever it wants and is not compelled to act according to how you imagine it should act.

Exactly, so stop proposing idiotic scenarios about a being you have no belief in. Fair enough? 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

...a god of justice would never...order the execution of a guilty person without establishing a moral context...

idjit

What you think God would or would not do is irrelevant. A supreme being can do whatever it wants and is not compelled to act according to how you imagine it should act.

Horsecrap.

All you're doing is proposing a rewritten version of Euthyphro.

The whole absurdity pre-supposes what it presumes to refute: a supreme moral standard.

You propose to confound me by asserting that Omniscience need not explain itself, merely demand faith and obedience. Nevermind the fact that the Bible you make your back-handed attack against is replete with tales of the saints and prophets complaining, arguing and bargaining; let's just deal with your child's riddle as it stands flops.

Without the moral context (even provided during such controversies as the Canaanite genocides) the agent of the apparition would never be sure if his act was just. He may seek to reconcile his act based on obedience to the Divine but taking orders is in no way a virtue in and of itself. In fact the entire episode becomes one big act of weighing various moral standards.

But herein lies the rub: moral standards.

Does a god of justice order his faithful to commit acts of violence while leaving them in moral uncertainty?

You cannot deflect by saying,"Well, maybe he isn't a god of justice, maybe he is merely a god of blind obedience."

pfft!

Go talk to the Mohammedans if that's the BS you're peddling.

Why would a god of obedience instill a sense of justice in his beloved creatures if he only sought to offend that sense; but more importantly: Where would such a god obtain a sense of justice to be instilled and subsequently offended out of caprice? The answer would betray that Justice resides beyond this particular god and if we curse this god we curse him to a higher God still.

So while Euthyphro left Socrates confounded we know that Justice is not merely Justice because God orders it and God does not order it because Justice is a thing outside His being He is beholden to. Justice is part of God's essence. He is Justice and Justice is Him (as are His other attributes as apprehended by human mind).

Now we return to what I have told you twice in two seperate threads yet you continue to ignore: you moralize and pose childish moralist riddles yet you cannot show empirical proof #1 for what you preach. At least these fundies have a book that claims to be actual history. What you got?

Grow-up, boy. You're playing with matches at a gas station.

[MrsSmith]

As for your question...God has said that none can see Him and live, so a man claiming to be God would be obviously false, regardless of how he arrived in front of me, or else I'd be dead.     

You're dodging the question. The Bible indicates that God is omnipotent. So, even if humans normally die as a result of seeing God, God can, if he wants to, prevent a person from dying after seeing him.

As God is the One Who said we can't look upon Him with dying, what makes you think He'd want to prevent it? 

And I do have a habit of ignoring ridiculous questions...it's the product of raising 5 kids.

[The Night Owl]

Without the moral context (even provided during such controversies as the Canaanite genocides) the agent of the apparition would never be sure if his act was just. He may seek to reconcile his act based on obedience to the Divine but taking orders is in no way a virtue in and of itself. In fact the entire episode becomes one big act of weighing various moral standards.

Well, what would you consider to be the kind of "moral context" which would compell you to follow an apparition's instructions?

[The Night Owl]

As God is the One Who said we can't look upon Him with dying, what makes you think He'd want to prevent it? 

And I do have a habit of ignoring ridiculous questions...it's the product of raising 5 kids.

Oh, for crying out loud. I'm not saying what God would or wouldn't do. What I'm saying is that if God wanted to appear before someone without having that person die, it could do that, could it not?

You're just trying to avoid the question.

[Carl]

As God is the One Who said we can't look upon Him with dying, what makes you think He'd want to prevent it? 

And I do have a habit of ignoring ridiculous questions...it's the product of raising 5 kids.

Oh, for crying out loud. I'm not saying what God would or wouldn't do. What I'm saying is that if God wanted to appear before someone without having that person die, it could do that, could it not?

You're just trying to avoid the question.

What you are proposing is based on an idiocy.
That being to question the Word and motivation of God while attempting to mock or question His omnipotence and thus existence.

In the first place if a man appeared before me and claimed to be God,then directed me to kill someone,I would know that it was not so because I believe in the Word and there is nothing in the Bible to suggest such an event.
That is the essence of faith,I believe in His Word so none of your mind traps are of great interest to me.

To provide you an answer that seems important to you for some reason it would be yes.
If God chose to appear before a man and not have that person die He certainly could do so.
However since He has decared that not to be the case then there is no reason to think He would,your little diversion notwithstanding.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Without the moral context (even provided during such controversies as the Canaanite genocides) the agent of the apparition would never be sure if his act was just. He may seek to reconcile his act based on obedience to the Divine but taking orders is in no way a virtue in and of itself. In fact the entire episode becomes one big act of weighing various moral standards.

Well, what would you consider to be the kind of "moral context" which would compell you to follow an apparition's instructions?

Again you ignore the answer (but then again that describes much of your beliefs systems)...

You cannot deflect by saying,"Well, maybe he isn't a god of justice, maybe he is merely a god of blind obedience."

pfft!

Go talk to the Mohammedans if that's the BS you're peddling.

Why would a god of obedience instill a sense of justice in his beloved creatures if he only sought to offend that sense; but more importantly: Where would such a god obtain a sense of justice to be instilled and subsequently offended out of caprice? The answer would betray that Justice resides beyond this particular god and if we curse this god we curse him to a higher God still.

So while Euthyphro left Socrates confounded we know that Justice is not merely Justice because God orders it and God does not order it because Justice is a thing outside His being He is beholden to. Justice is part of God's essence. He is Justice and Justice is Him (as are His other attributes as apprehended by human mind).

Now we return to what I have told you twice in two seperate threads yet you continue to ignore: you moralize and pose childish moralist riddles yet you cannot show empirical proof #1 for what you preach. At least these fundies have a book that claims to be actual history. What you got?

[franksolich]

I don't claim to know the truth. I'm just more nearly certain about some things than other things.

Well, hot damn, now we're starting to get along.

I'm pretty sure 2 + 2 + 4; it makes sense to me.

I'm pretty sure gravity is as it's represented to be; it makes sense to me.

I'm pretty sure there's been some sort of evolution of mankind; it makes sense to me.

But "pretty sure" and "nearly certain" are pretty far from what your pal on Skins's island, the malicious cartoon character primitive, the "rationalist," says about things.  The malicious cartoon character primitive, the "rationalist," isn't merely pretty sure or nearly certain about things; the malicious cartoon character primitive KNOWS he knows the Eternal Truth, and KNOWS all else is nonsense.

The malicious cartoon character primitive knows All.

franksolich is only "pretty sure" about things, because franksolich when examining the broad vista of humanity and the experience of humanity, finds it's cluttered with all sorts of things accepted as the Eternal Truth, that turned out wrong.

No one living in 1808 had the same perception of time, space, and speed, as anyone living in 2008 does.

Albert Einstein about halfway between 1808 and 2008 changed the ways we perceive such things.

And sooner or later, somebody else is going to upset the Einstein apple-cart, proving that no, something else is actually the case, in regards to time, space, and speed.

So franksolich keeps the door open a little bit; not much, but enough so that if a new truth is proven, it can waft inside.

Unlike your pal the malicious cartoon character primitive on Skins's island, who has the door to his own mind not only shut, but locked, and not only locked, but barred, and not only barred, but superglued to the door-frame.

It's like this evolution thing, an issue which seems pretty irrelevant to me, the whole question about the origins of mankind being a frivolous argument over trifles.

The most basic, the core, the heart, of Roman Catholic theology, a theology to which franksolich enthusiastically adheres, is that God is the "First Cause" of all things; the spark that ignites.

After the spark is ignited, it becomes rather murky, who's to blame for what, who's to credit for what.

Evolution makes sense to me, especially the part about "natural selection;" in fact, it's too bad we don't apply the theory of natural selection to politics, too, as we're seeing it happen right now, right before our eyes, as the Democrats, liberals, and primitives wither away into inevitable extinction.

Natural selection at its finest.

I happen to think--I'm pretty sure--however that something other than natural selection is bound to happen, like with the meteorite that ostensibly destroyed all dinosaur life on earth eons ago; I more suspect that some external force--probably the terrorists--are going to kill off the Democrats, liberals, and primitives (their ideology and attitude, not necessarily their persons, but of course that can happen too) before they naturally wither away.

Natural selection.

However, I'm only pretty sure about evolution; since God is Almighty and All-Powerful and Eternal, it might be that God instantaneously "created" rocks and fossils "millions of years old" so as to befuddle and consternate prideful human intellects.

God can do things like that.

And one assumes God has a sense of humor, and uses it.

[The Night Owl]

In the first place if a man appeared before me and claimed to be God,then directed me to kill someone,I would know that it was not so because I believe in the Word and there is nothing in the Bible to suggest such an event.

According to the Bible, God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son, did he not? Perhaps the apparation asking you to kill the next person you see wearing red shoes is God testing you in the same way he tested Abraham. What do you do?

[Flame]

In the first place if a man appeared before me and claimed to be God,then directed me to kill someone,I would know that it was not so because I believe in the Word and there is nothing in the Bible to suggest such an event.

According to the Bible, God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son, did he not? Perhaps the apparation asking you to kill the next person you see wearing red shoes is God testing you in the same way he tested Abraham. What do you do?

Scarifices are Old Testament Law.  Jesus came to be the ultimate sacrifice, so I would know that the "being" before me is an imposter, as blood sacrifice is no longer needed for salvation.

[The Night Owl]

Scarifices are Old Testament Law.  Jesus came to be the ultimate sacrifice, so I would know that the "being" before me is an imposter, as blood sacrifice is no longer needed for salvation.

Getting you to kill someone may not be the apparation's intent. The apparition's intent may be getting you to agree to kill someone.

Just as God did not want Isaac slain, the apparation may not want the next person you see wearing red shoes to be killed. In asking you to kill the next person you see wearing red shoes, God may be testing your trust in him in the same way that he tested Abraham's trust in him. So, what do you do?

[Flame]

Scarifices are Old Testament Law.  Jesus came to be the ultimate sacrifice, so I would know that the "being" before me is an imposter, as blood sacrifice is no longer needed for salvation.

Getting you to kill someone may not be the apparation's intent. The apparition's intent may be getting you to agree to kill someone.

Just as God did not want Isaac slain, the apparation may not want the next person you see wearing red shoes to be killed. In asking you to kill the next person you see wearing red shoes, God may be testing your trust in him in the same way that he tested Abraham's trust in him. So, what do you do?

I know you are being purposely obtuse, so let me type this slowly.  God would not ask us to kill anyone.  Therefore, I would know the "thing" is a fake.   

That being said, I have better things to do with my time than to argue with a tool (like color my fingetnails purple with a crayon) so I'm outta this thread.

[Chris_]

Oy vey! Yes, TNO has me speaking yiddish now. 

[Chris_]

Oy vey! Yes, TNO has me speaking yiddish now. 

You want I should find you a hit man wholesale?