DUmmies Dish about Phony Jefferson Quote

[zeitgeist]

I ran across this while trolling the DUmp earlier and thought I might load it up and bring it over for those pressed for time who wanted a bit of entertainment.  This is a very short OP with only one DUmmy of prominence, Nads, sticking her nose under the tent. 

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10021524740

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:13 AM

 Bertha Venation (19,386 posts)

Did Thomas Jefferson really say this?
 "Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, 'democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.'"
 
An excerpt from a letter sent by David Siegel to his employees.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/09/david-siegel-email_n_1951801.html

From this article:

"David Siegel, the founder and CEO of giant timeshare company Westgate resorts, sent an opus-like email to his workers, railing against one-percent bashing and arguing that the president’s reelection would “threaten your job.” In the email, obtained by Gawker, Siegel goes on to write:
 
"'If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, as our current President plans, I will have no choice but to reduce the size of this company.'"
 

18 replies, 344 views

Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:15 AM

 sinkingfeeling (25,818 posts)

1. No, see below.
http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/democracy-will-cease-to-exist-quotation
 
Status: This exact quotation has not been found in any of the writings of Thomas Jefferson. It bears a very vague resemblance to Jefferson's comment in a prospectus for his translation of Destutt de Tracy's Treatise on Political Economy: "To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, —the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, & the fruits acquired by it.'"
 

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:42 AM

 Bertha Venation (19,386 posts)

12. thank you, sinkingfeeling

Re your username -- me, too.


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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:16 AM

 aletier_v (638 posts)

2. Jefferson lived in a time before the Industrial & Computer revolutions

The problem with today's world is that work is finite, as finite as water or oil.
 
The means of production were so low in Jefferson's time that they never ran up against the finite quality of work.
 

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Response to aletier_v (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:21 AM

 Enrique (19,855 posts)

6. also, Jeffereson didn't say it
further, that Siegel guy has zero interest in Jefferson, the Constitution, anything else. He just wants more money.
 

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Response to aletier_v (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:31 AM

 ToxMarz (48 posts)

9. And the obsession with "Free Trade"
In Jeffersons day and for quite some time the US had tariffs on goods imported that unfairly competed with products produced here. That has pretty much gone by the wayside and laws favor the free movement of capital around the world. Labor on the other hand is not free to move around the globe.
 

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:18 AM

 kestrel91316 (41,992 posts)

3. My interpretation of "those who would not", whether this quote is attributable
to Jefferson or not (and since this comes from a RWer I assume it is not, in fact), is "those who REFUSE to work".
 
Mr. Siegel is an ass. His taxes go to pay mostly for infrastructure and military (which I guarantee you he loves) and government services for the populace. Social Security and Medicare are not payments to those who refuse to work. So his only legitimate beef is AFDC and general welfare (which virtually no one can get anymore, and only for a brief time).
 
He needs to suck it up or move to Somalia.
 

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:19 AM

 cthulu2016 (5,065 posts)

4. No, it is something Cal Thomas made up
Te closest thing Jefferson said to that is:

"To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, —the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, & the fruits acquired by it.'"
 
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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:22 AM

 JHB (16,525 posts)

7. That would be Cal "used to be the #2 man in the Moral Majority" Thomas?
Just reminding people of his context, a reminder of why he has a column.


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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:22 AM

 deutsey (15,853 posts)

8. Must be nice to just make shit up, huh?
Those of us in the reality-based community don't have that luxury.
 

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:20 AM

 obamanut2012 (6,159 posts)

5. No, this is not a Jefferson quote, but let us all make believe it is
He also endorsed slavery as a necessary evil and holding a tiger by its tail, so...
 

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IS this the SAME Jefferson who is considered the founding father of the Democratic Party ??   

 

Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:36 AM

 dawg (4,368 posts)

10. I don't know if he said that or not, but I do know he didn't ...
author the Constitution. So I'm pretty sure Mr. Siegel is an idiot.
 

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:40 AM

 nadinbrzezinski (109,689 posts)

11. the quote smells, stylistically that is not 18th century English
One more thing, the Constitution, which Jefferson had nothing to do with, he was the US Ambassador in Paris, is not the Declaration, which Jefferson did indeed pen.


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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:45 AM

 wtmusic (35,936 posts)

13. "I will have no choice but to reduce the size of this company....
because selling my $16M yacht is out of the question."
 

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:45 AM

 barbtries (13,597 posts)

14. no
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_said_democracy_will_cease_to_exist_when_you_take_away_from_those_who_are_willing_to_work_and_give_to_those_who_would_not
 

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:48 AM

 ieoeja (7,458 posts)

15. If I was a Republican, I would vote Democratic this election.
Because I don't respond well to threats.


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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:49 AM

 JaneyVee (797 posts)

16. The workers are the ones with the skill, CEOs push papers around all day exploiting them.

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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:50 AM

 OldDem2012 (441 posts)

17. Good article on quotes made up by right-wingers....

The Right’s Library of Fake Quotes
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=4053

QUOTE:

Abraham Lincoln despised class warfare, Thomas Jefferson detested bailouts and the founders of the nation were all Bible-believing Christians. These are among the historical “facts” you’ll learn as a regular consumer of talk radio, Fox News and other conservative sources.
 
While non-conservatives have been known to misquote historical figures to add credibility to their own views, the right seems to have a special enthusiasm for putting words in dead people’s mouths.


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Response to Bertha Venation (Original post)

Fri Oct 12, 2012, 11:51 AM

 NoGOPZone (2,363 posts)

18. Only in the same reality that Paul Revere rang bells and fired warning shots.

Which is to say, Republican reality, where history is invented after the fact.
 

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Posted for your reading pleasure and enjoyment without having to go to the DUmp (although you may need one after reading).

[Freeper]

Bertha Venation (19,386 posts)

Did Thomas Jefferson really say this?


 
"Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, 'democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.'"

An excerpt from a letter sent by David Siegel to his employees.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/09/david-siegel-email_n_1951801.html

From this article:

"David Siegel, the founder and CEO of giant timeshare company Westgate resorts, sent an opus-like email to his workers, railing against one-percent bashing and arguing that the president’s reelection would “threaten your job.” In the email, obtained by Gawker, Siegel goes on to write:

"'If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, as our current President plans, I will have no choice but to reduce the size of this company.'"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021524740

No, of course not. He mainly wrote about how sacred the right of abortion is, and how the government should re distribute wealth. 

deutsey (15,855 posts)
8. Must be nice to just make shit up, huh?

Those of us in the reality-based community don't have that luxury.

 

Here is another thread that really isn't related, but I wanted to bring this one post over,

RichGirl (3,320 posts)
7. Here's the difference between Liberals and Conservatives....

When they hear information....it goes into their ears and comes straight out of their mouths. When we hear information, no matter who it comes from, how reliable the source....it goes into the ears and before coming out of the mouth, it makes a little detour through the brain! We think about it...we question it...we check it out...we make sure it's accurate before spouting it off. That's why we don't have a FOX NEWS or Rush Limbaugh. They have to rely on the non-thinking crowd.

A perfect example is the lady Chris Matthews interviewed who accused Obama of being a communist...but didn't know what communisim was. It would have taken just a little google search, but no, too much trouble...don't want to strain that little pea brain. So funny how they interchange communism, socialism and Marxism...when they are three different things.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021522988

Yeah the people in the reality based community research every talking point that MSNBC throws their way. 

Socialism, communism, and Marxism all have one thing in common, well several actually, but the most important link is, people always end up being killed by their own government when they are under those systems. Trying to pick out the differences between the 3 is like debating the difference between hip hop and rap. In the end you get the same results 4 minutes of your life wasted listening to something that is NOT music.

[FlaGator]

RichGirl (3,320 posts)
7. Here's the difference between Liberals and Conservatives....

When they hear information....it goes into their ears and comes straight out of their mouths. When we hear information, no matter who it comes from, how reliable the source....it goes into the ears and before coming out of the mouth, it makes a little detour through the brain! We think about it...we question it...we check it out...we make sure it's accurate before spouting it off. That's why we don't have a FOX NEWS or Rush Limbaugh. They have to rely on the non-thinking crowd.

A perfect example is the lady Chris Matthews interviewed who accused Obama of being a communist...but didn't know what communisim was. It would have taken just a little google search, but no, too much trouble...don't want to strain that little pea brain. So funny how they interchange communism, socialism and Marxism...when they are three different things.

That is total BS. A lib says it, they believe it, no questions asked.

[MrsSmith]

Wow! So they actually admit that Jefferson did not write the Constitution!  In their "reality based" hive, how can they insist his private letter then interprets the 1st amendment?   

[AllosaursRus]

I can't believe any of these pukes can speak of truth! They wouldn't know the truth if one of us fed it to them in a marijuana brownie, for cripes sake!

[98ZJUSMC]

I ran across this while trolling the DUmp earlier and thought I might load it up and bring it over for those pressed for time who wanted a bit of entertainment.  This is a very short OP with only one DUmmy of prominence, Nads, sticking her nose under the tent.  

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10021524740        
IS this the SAME Jefferson who is considered the founding father of the Democratic Party ??    

        
Posted for your reading pleasure and enjoyment without having to go to the DUmp (although you may need one after reading.

Thanks.  There are some knee-slappers in there.  Their attempts at putting on sophisticated intellectual airs, is always comical.

I can't believe any of these pukes can speak of truth! They wouldn't know the truth if one of us fed it to them in a marijuana brownie, for cripes sake!

Yeah, but it would sooooo inter-dimensional maahn.  Yeah......dig it.

[98ZJUSMC]

When they hear information....it goes into their ears and comes straight out of their mouths. When we hear information, no matter who it comes from, how reliable the source....it goes into the ears and before coming out of the mouth, it makes a little detour through the brain! 

That would be the, rolling marble amplified by a reverb, sound.

[98ZJUSMC]

Wow! So they actually admit that Jefferson did not write the Constitution!  In their "reality based" hive, how can they insist his private letter then interprets the 1st amendment?   

B-b-b-bh-but, Jeffersons' musings on the Wall of Separation between Church and State are in the Constution....eleventy!!!!!1!!!1!!!!

[ChuckJ]

I don't know about Tom, but I do know a guy named Paul of Tarsus who said if a person wouldn't work then he shouldn't eat.

[Jasonw560]

Okay, lurking DUmmies....

Jefferson was actually an abolitionist. You know that whole "life, liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness" in the Declaration? Yeah, Jefferson substituted "property" with "pursuit of Happiness" because he thought slave owners in Georgia and the Carolinas would claim that slavery is a right.

He had to own slaves because he didn't have the money to free them. After he died, they were given their freedom. He was a contemporary of William Wiberforce.

And "RichBitch" primitive, you have it backwards. WE as conservatives take the information presented, as well as conflicting information, and wade through it to get to the truth. YOU liberals take the propaganda that your side spews as the truth with no thought, and reguritates it ad nauseum, no matter how asinine and unbelievable it is.

[USA4ME]

RichGirl

When we hear information, no matter who it comes from, how reliable the source....it goes into the ears and before coming out of the mouth, it makes a little detour through the brain! We think about it...we question it...we check it out...we make sure it's accurate before spouting it off.

 

That's hilarious!

This foolish primitive has the same problem as all liberals; they have absorbed the idea that their political side has a monopoly on Truth and all dissenters are either fools or knaves.  Because of that, they end up defending lies and having to change history and the meaning of words to fit the reality they need.

Just look at Jeffereson's quote.  He's clearly saying that to take from the industrious and to give it those who are not is a violation of one's freedom to retain the fruits of your labor.  That's the essance of the quote provided by David Siegel to his employees.

I've talked to a least a hundred different business owners who have told me if Dear Leader is re-elected, they aren't hiring anyone and may have to scale back.  Now libs will tell you that others will move in and fill the holes left by these people and will hire employees.  But that's not the case.

The primitives are in for a lot of surprises if Dear Leader remains in office, and none of them good, although they will continue to lie and claim otherwise and/or blame Republicans.

.

[ChuckJ]

RichGirl (3,320 posts)
7. Here's the difference between Liberals and Conservatives....

When they hear information....it goes into their ears and comes straight out of their mouths. When we hear information, no matter who it comes from, how reliable the source....it goes into the ears and before coming out of the mouth, it makes a little detour through the brain! We think about it...we question it...we check it out...we make sure it's accurate before spouting it off. That's why we don't have a FOX NEWS or Rush Limbaugh. They have to rely on the non-thinking crowd.

A perfect example is the lady Chris Matthews interviewed who accused Obama of being a communist...but didn't know what communisim was. It would have taken just a little google search, but no, too much trouble...don't want to strain that little pea brain. So funny how they interchange communism, socialism and Marxism...when they are three different things.

In 2008 Howard Stern did a bit where he showed how intelligent and in the know that Obama voters were. He has done it again this year. Below is the audio.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ECS8LEeI5M[/youtube]

[ADsOutburst]

So funny how they interchange communism, socialism and Marxism...when they are three different things.

I'm going to say this once and only once:

In Marxism, communism is the stage that logically and inevitably follows socialism (although that doesn't mean socialism ends). Socialism is supposed to create the material wealth that would be required in order to share according to need. They are essential parts of the same plan for civilization. Thus, it's not inaccurate to describe a Marxist as favoring socialism and communism.

When we hear information, no matter who it comes from, how reliable the source....it goes into the ears and before coming out of the mouth, it makes a little detour through the brain! We think about it...we question it...we check it out...we make sure it's accurate before spouting it off. That's why we don't have a FOX NEWS or Rush Limbaugh. They have to rely on the non-thinking crowd.

Sure it does.

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